[_ Old Earth _] Is evolutionism compatible with the Bible?

[Barbarian]

evolution is like someone giving you a fact filled 100 page report and as you read it you find pages missing and some pages have no facts just supposition.

Kinda like history or physics. One of the big deals of real world is we don't get a manual to understand the way it all works. We watch and learn, and infer the rules from what we see.

Sounds a little shaky, but nothing else we can do works better. In this particular issue, the clincher isn't that we have all these transitional forms where there were predicted; it's that there aren't any at all where they shouldn't be.

 

[Roro1972]

Kinda like history or physics. One of the big deals of real world is we don't get a manual to understand the way it all works. We watch and learn, and infer the rules from what we see.

Sounds a little shaky, but nothing else we can do works better. In this particular issue, the clincher isn't that we have all these transitional forms where there were predicted; it's that there aren't any at all where they shouldn't be.

it like hop scotch some time you hope over a couple million years and some time you skip over sevderal million years.

 

[Cygnus]

Sounds like a testable claim.

Transitionals between reptiles and mammals:

Diarthrognathus, genus of extinct, advanced mammal-like reptiles found as fossils in Early Jurassic terrestrial deposits about 200 million years old in southern Africa. Diarthrognathus was contemporaneous with a host of other mammal relatives but is nearer than many of them to the line leading to the true mammals because of its unspecialized features of skeletal anatomy and dentition. In true mammals, one jaw joint is formed by the squared bone of the skull and the dentary bone of the lower jaw. In other tetrapods, the location of this joint is determined by the intersection of the quadrate bone above and the articular bone below. In Diarthrognathus, both configurations are preserved, and both the quadrate and articular bones are reduced. These bones evolved to become two of the middle-ear bones in mammals.
https://www.britannica.com/animal/Diarthrognathus

Thrinaxodon

The cool thing is, in the fetal opossum...

Transitional quadrupeds:

Acanthostega, a fish with internal gills, lateral line system, and fish tail, but with functional legs.

Transitional vertebrate (chordate)
Conodont organism:

A true cordate, with notochord, fin rays, chevron-shaped muscles and bilateral symmetry. Not quite a vertebrate, but transitional.

Another:
Tunicates

As adults, they don't look much like the chordata, but the larval forms...

Pretty much everything you'd want to see in a transitional chordate.



Well, it's your doctrine. Feel free to post another one, if you don't think the one you did was a good description.

So what? The biblical of Noahs days buried those fossils.

What do you have? Nothing but an interpretation based upon speculation and bias. Big deal. The flood buried them.

 

[Cygnus]

It's your doctrine. You figure it out and let us know.

Cygnus describes how "evolutionism" differs from evolution:


If that's what your new doctrine of evolutionism says, then it's diametrically opposed to evolution as it actually exists. But you already know that.

Barbarian, I have a song for you...it sorta describes your little dance...

 

[Barbarian]

Maybe, if you gave up on inventing new beliefs about your doctrine of "evolutionism" and focused on what evolution actually is, you'd do better.

The foolish misconception you presented here:

May be part of your doctrine of "evolutionism", but (as you now realize) has nothing to do with evolutionary theory. You can't dance away from that.

If you spend a little time learning what evolution actually is, you'd be better at fighting it.

 

[Barbarian]

So what?

Lots of transitional forms, precisely the ones you claimed didn't exist.

The biblical of Noahs days buried those fossils.

Nothing but an interpretation based upon speculation and bias. Your belief is not supported, even by most YE creationists. Few of them claim that Cambrian organisms are part of Noah's flood. Would you like to learn why?

What do you have?

The very transitionals you denied existing.

 

[Barbarian]

it like hop scotch some time you hope over a couple million years and some time you skip over sevderal million years.

Geologic time is tough to get one's head around. But nature isn't obligated to follow our expectations.

 

[OzSpen]

Absolutly. 100% absolute. If you are old earth you are wrong. You are deceived. If you subscribe to evolutionism you are also wrong. It's more than simply my perspective, it's biblical fact.

Which evangelical, old earth creationists, with a high view of Scripture have you read?

Have you ever entertained the possibility that you are the one who could be misunderstanding the Scriptures.?

 

[Cygnus]

Maybe, if you gave up on inventing new beliefs about your doctrine of "evolutionism" and focused on what evolution actually is, you'd do better.

The foolish misconception you presented here:

May be part of your doctrine of "evolutionism", but (as you now realize) has nothing to do with evolutionary theory. You can't dance away from that.

If you spend a little time learning what evolution actually is, you'd be better at fighting it.

You're still doing the Mr. Bojangles Barbarian.

 

[Cygnus]

Lots of transitional forms, precisely the ones you claimed didn't exist.

There hasn't been any ransitional forms found..why? Beause they don't exist.
Why don't thety exist? Because the fossils were formed when animals and plants were buried during the flood of Noah. They are all contemporaneous.

 

[Cygnus]

Barbarian...In you post you said..."but it's a grave error to argue that your new doctrine is essential Christian doctrine."

Cygnus: What I do see is the theological mix of evolutionism and bible striking at the foundation of what makes certain parts of scripture essential.

 

[Cygnus]

Have you ever entertained the possibility that you are the one who could be misunderstanding the Scriptures.?

Sure, then i realized what great damage that theology does to scripture. I started to aask questions and kept getting the Mr. Bojangles dance from people such as you and Barbarian.

....i noticed they all fall flat on their face when they try to show why mankind is a sinner. Will you like to try and explain it to us now that you have had some time to reflect upon the subject of our sin nature?

 

[Barbarian]

There hasn't been any ransitional forms found..

I just showed you a number of them, precisely the ones you claimed did not exist. No point in denying the fact. But as you learned, as convincing as the predicted transitionals are, it's much more convincing that there are no transitionals where the theory says they shouldn't be.

why?

Because if there were things like mammals with feathers, or insects with bones, then you could make the argument that God was just being whimsical or maybe was deliberately trying to fool us. But since transitionals exist only where they are predicted to be, between taxa that are known to be related by other evidence, it's clear that they are evolutionary transitions.

Transitional forms between mammals and birds don't exist.

Why don't thety exist?

Because neither of them evolved from the other. They both evolved from reptiles. But from very different reptiles.

 

[Barbarian]

You're still doing the Mr. Bojangles Barbarian.

You can dance all you like. But in the end, the evidence refutes your new doctrine.

 

[Barbarian]

Barbarian...In you post you said..."but it's a grave error to argue that your new doctrine is essential Christian doctrine."

Cygnus: What I do see is the theological mix of evolutionism and bible striking at the foundation of what makes certain parts of scripture essential.

It's because you've confused your new ideas with God's word. As I pointed out, this doesn't mean you aren't a Christian. It just means you hold a different opinion of Genesis than the rest of us do. Unless you make a idol of your new belief, that isn't going to put your soul in danger.

 

[Barbarian]

....i noticed they all fall flat on their face when they try to show why mankind is a sinner.

I showed you that it was because Adam and Eve chose to disobey God. For some reason, you are unwilling to accept that.

 

[Cygnus]

just showed you a number of them, precisely the ones you claimed did not exist. No point in denying the fact. But as you learned, as convincing as the predicted transitionals are, it's much more convincing that there are no transitionals where the theory says they shouldn't be.

No you didn't. You just showed me some fossils you speculate as being transitional forms. Considering they were formed as a result of the flood of noah...it would be impossible for them to be transitional.

 

[Cygnus]

You can dance all you like. But in the end, the evidence refutes your new doctrine.

I have to laugh....but you need to realize, at least I have doctrine. You don't. In fact what you present destroys doctrine. For instance using your false religion of evolutionism and trying to force fit it into christian theology.....you do away with mans sin nature and the reason for our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

 

[Cygnus]

It's because you've confused your new ideas with God's word. As I pointed out, this doesn't mean you aren't a Christian. It just means you hold a different opinion of Genesis than the rest of us do. Unless you make a idol of your new belief, that isn't going to put your soul in danger.

My point is this....if you destroy the doctrine christianity is built upon.....your doctrine doesn't save anyone. Evolutionism puts your soul into grave danger.
You do away with mans sin nature and the reason for our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.

 

[calvin]

Jesus Himself said: Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
I guess we've been around for a long long time then.
Jesus Himself also said :Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
Does that mean there will be another Asteroid impact that will kill off all life except the Tardigrades?