Is Genesis 1:2 translated correctly, according to the manuscripts

[HalleluYAH]

Genesis (KJV) 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 

[WIP]

What makes you think it isn't?

 

[HalleluYAH]

What makes you think it isn't?

Because “was” in Genesis 1:2 should have been translated “became”.

This is important because, if you do not understand the beginning, you’ll never understand the end.

 

[WIP]

I don't read Hebrew so I am not capable of reviewing what was translated. Every translation that I am familiar with translates the phrase as "The earth was without form." With respect admittedly I will likely take the word of multiple multi-panel groups of scholars spanning hundreds of years over the opinion of a single individual. For this reason, I think you'll have to offer more than just an opinion.

What I do know is that one person's translation will differ from another's. Give two or three people the task of translating the same phrase from one language to another and you'll get two or three different results.

This is true even when both parties speak the same language. How you may interpret something I say could be totally different from how another person may interpret it. Consider the first amendment to the US constitution. When I read the amendment I see that it forbids the government from forcing a particular religious belief upon the people but I do not see how anyone would understand it to mean that it is not permitted to make references to Jesus in a high school student's speech. Here's a link to an example.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/16/god-redacted-from-high-school-graduation-speech/

 

[HalleluYAH]

I don't read Hebrew so I am not capable of reviewing what was translated. Every translation that I am familiar with translates the phrase as "The earth was without form." With respect admittedly I will likely take the word of multiple multi-panel groups of scholars spanning hundreds of years over the opinion of a single individual. For this reason, I think you'll have to offer more than just an opinion.

What I do know is that one person's translation will differ from another's. Give two or three people the task of translating the same phrase from one language to another and you'll get two or three different results.

This is true even when both parties speak the same language. How you may interpret something I say could be totally different from how another person may interpret it. Consider the first amendment to the US constitution. When I read the amendment I see that it forbids the government from forcing a particular religious belief upon the people but I do not see how anyone would understand it to mean that it is not permitted to make references to Jesus in a high school student's speech. Here's a link to an example.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/06/16/god-redacted-from-high-school-graduation-speech/

Many people, other than myself, have said that “was” should have been translated “became”. For example, Roger Christopherson at http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm wrote:

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

 

[turnorburn]

Is this the same Roger Christopherson from the Shepherds Chapel?

tob

 

[Knotical]

Take a look at the NASB translation of this same verse:

The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

I agree, it is important to get the translation right. The NASB is, arguably, one of the best translations.

 

[WIP]

From my research for these eight versions there were over 529 scholars involved during different time periods. It seems they all agree to the same basic translation of the verse. I'm certainly not going to argue with them.

KJV (1611) was translated by 47 scholars,
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NLT (1996) - 90 scholars
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

NIV (1978) - 100 scholars
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

NKJV (1982) - 130
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

ESV (2001) - 100+
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

ASB (1900) - 30
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NASB (1971) - 32
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

From the USCCB website (approved Catholic version)
2 and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters.

 

[Deborah13]

Many people, other than myself, have said that “was” should have been translated “became”. For example, Roger Christopherson at http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm wrote:

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Young's Literal Translation
Gen 1:2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
H1961
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become,
H1933
haw-vaw', haw-vaw'
A primitive root (compare H183, H1961) supposed to mean properly to breathe; to be (in the sense of existence): - be, X have.

 

[Deborah13]

From my research for these eight versions there were over 529 scholars involved during different time periods. It seems they all agree to the same basic translation of the verse. I'm certainly not going to argue with them.

KJV (1611) was translated by 47 scholars,
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NLT (1996) - 90 scholars
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

NIV (1978) - 100 scholars
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

NKJV (1982) - 130
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

ESV (2001) - 100+
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

ASB (1900) - 30
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NASB (1971) - 32
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

From the USCCB website (approved Catholic version)
2 and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters.

The word 'was' works just fine with the idea of 'to exist' in the past tense.

Maybe someone is advocating the pre-adam world.

 

[HalleluYAH]

Is this the same Roger Christopherson from the Shepherds Chapel?

No, Roger is not from Shepherd's.

 

[HalleluYAH]

From my research for these eight versions there were over 529 scholars involved during different time periods. It seems they all agree to the same basic translation of the verse. I'm certainly not going to argue with them.

KJV (1611) was translated by 47 scholars,
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NLT (1996) - 90 scholars
2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

NIV (1978) - 100 scholars
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

NKJV (1982) - 130
2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

ESV (2001) - 100+
2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

ASB (1900) - 30
2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

NASB (1971) - 32
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

From the USCCB website (approved Catholic version)
2 and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters.

Accuracy of translation is more important than how many, or how few, translators there were. All translations, when compared to the manuscripts, are full of errors. One glaring error is Easter (pagan goddess of fertility), found one time in Acts. This should have been translated Passover, not Easter.

Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
Result of search for "Easter":
3957. pascha pas'-khah of Chaldee origin (compare 6453); the Passover (the meal, the day, the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it)

 

[Knotical]

Accuracy of translation is more important than how many, or how few, translators there were. All translations, when compared to the manuscripts, are full of errors. One glaring error is Easter (pagan goddess of fertility), found one time in Acts. This should have been translated Passover, not Easter.

Strong's Greek Lexicon Search Results
Result of search for "Easter":
3957. pascha pas'-khah of Chaldee origin (compare 6453); the Passover (the meal, the day, the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it)

Which passage from Acts?

 

[HalleluYAH]

Which passage from Acts?

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

 

[Knotical]

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

I guess it depends on the translation you are reading. The NASB has the word translated as Passover.

 

[HalleluYAH]

I guess it depends on the translation you are reading. The NASB has the word translated as Passover.

Yes, I know that's true. I will, however, stay with the KJV because with the Strong's I can take every word in it back to the original languages.

 

[turnorburn]

Then why have i seen his name connected to the kenites, i put Roger Christopherson and the kenites into a search engine, the kenites are of the serpent seed doctrine..

tob

 

[HalleluYAH]

Then why have i seen his name connected to the kenites, i put Roger Christopherson and the kenites into a search engine, the kenites are of the serpent seed doctrine..

tob

You seem to know more about him than I do. So please tell us all about it.

Strong's Hebrew Lexicon Search Results

Result of search for "Kenite":

7014 Qayin kah'-yin the same as 7013 (with a play upon the affinity to 7069); Kajin, the name of the first child, also of a place in Palestine, and of an Oriental tribe:--Cain, Kenite(-s).

 

[turnorburn]

Actually i didn't know who Roger was until you mentioned his name, it peaked my curiosity so to speak, then after a search i found his teaching on the serpent seed doctrine, and that's about all i know about the man..

tob

 

[Deborah13]

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Young's Literal Translation
Act 12:4 whom also having seized, he did put in prison, having delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to guard him, intending after the passover to bring him forth to the people.