Is God a Trinity or Triune

[manichunter]

I believe God is triune.
Our congregation believes that Yahweh is not a trinity. Yahweh should not be seen as a trinity, but triune. They mean to different things. Trinity is three distinct items operation as one. To be triune means three elements forming a plural singularity. I will explain in a long fashion to try to give a good picture of what Yahweh being triune should be.

Scripture says that Yahweh has revealed Himself in creation, and it can be so easily understood that it would leave man without excuse. (Rom 1:18-22). The problem is rejecting and not investigating Yahweh as He offers made glimpses of His character, nature, and attributes.

The truth is that since He is Yahweh, everything shares some element of Yahweh's image/reflection. It can be broken down into divine imprints and divine shadows. The Divine imprints is things that testify and stand as witnesses of Yahweh.
Examples: The names Yahweh give man reveal things about His character He wants us to know about to bolster our relationship with Him (to know Him is to love Him). God does not give personal names as we do. Everything He names follows the purpose He assigned to the item (Moses- means to draw out, Yeshua/Jesus- means Yahweh provides salvation)

1.Yahweh (Jehovah/LORD)- self existing one will be what I be. This aspect of Yahweh was not revealed to man until Moses (Ex 6:2-6).

2.El Elyon (Most High God)- I am the originator of all patterns and highest in all orders of things (this name here reflects Him modeling everything after Himself in separate fashions). This aspect of Yahweh's nature was known by all from day one to include gentiles (Gen 14:18).
3.El Shaddai (God Almighty)- breasted one that is the sole source of nourishment for all things. This is the aspect of God Abraham stumble upon in when once again God ID Himself (Gen 17:1)
4.Finally Elohim (God)- describes Him as the establisher of covenants and giver of law. It is in this world that the divine imprint of the triune God should be seen in connection to Gen 1:26 statement," let us make man in our image." Elohim is a plural word from the singular word "Eloa". Adding “im†on the end of most old Hebrew words makes it plural. It shows the divine imprint that reveals that you can have a plural singularity coexisting in an interdependent relationship. What we have is three members within the definition of a greater whole that have to function as one in order to exist within a singular identity.

Examples of divine imprints would be Man (body, soul, spirit), Fire (flammable, heat, oxidizer), Atom (electron, neutron, proton), DNA, (triple cords), Family structure (father, mother, child), Earth (atmosphere, land, and water), stages of matter (liquid, solid, and gas), dimensions of the physical universe (length, width, and height), time (past, present, future), and I could go on and on with many examples. The first common property is that if you took one of the elements of the plural singularity away from the equation, the item would cease to be what it is and cannot function. It would no longer be a singular though it remains a plural. Examples- removing one of the elements from the fire triangle like flammable, you still have oxygen and heat around, but no fire. This is why when we die, we are immediately given a new body for the soul and spirit to continue our existence and person. Before Yehsua resurrection, Hades and the Abraham's bosom served as a person’s body to maintain their plural singularity. Now after the resurrection of Yehsua, we are immediately given our glorified body upon death.

Second property is that all are called by a singular name for identity purposes, but separated when function must be addressed. For example when people indentify me they call me by my name, not by one of my triune elements. However, when they try to define my actions, they say things like how do you feel, what are you thinking, and who are you acting like. These things reflect upon the triune elements of my soul being emotions, intellect, and persona. Neither are the same in function but interdependent; I cannot be one person without these three aspects. In concluding, this is how the triune description of Yahweh can be seen if nature is to be witness (let everything be establish by witnesses, two or three to be exact). To see Yahweh as a trinity is to view Him from a carnal prospective working from the limited measures of natural sciences and physics. Yahweh did us a favor by revealing Himself for so we would not have to do it on our own. The truth of the matter is, we could never properly describe any element of Yahweh if He had not initiated the revelation in the first place.
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[Vic C.]

I also prefer Triune; it sounds more technical. Describing Jesus' nature as a hypostatic union also has a technical feel to it.

But let me ask you this:

Do you believe our triune God can exist in all three natures, or persons, as commonly expressed in the Trinity concept, at the same time? I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are attempting to explain "modalism". Most scholars and teachers will use triune and trinity interchangeably.

An example of what I am suggesting:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Here we have, the Father, the Son and the Spirit co-existing.

 

[manichunter]

God is omni-present and beyond the capsule of time. How can we grasp this in our physical reality. We have know idea of how God can and cannot manifest Himself. In your particular point you are right, the entire Godhead manifest at the same scene. The Father spoke, but He never leaves the throne. However, I don't distance would create a problem to the Father. The Spirit descended in the form of a dove. And the Son was filled totally with the Spirit. The Spirit was everywhere and all around in this scene. And the Son was dwelling in flesh at this moment. However, he had the ability to transfigure Himself into His glorified body before he went to the cross. Hence Yeshua really showed that time and distance was only relevant and imposing on man. He was the same Yeshua who walk in flesh before with Abraham and dance in the fire with the three Hebrew boys.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Triune is more like an adjective: Trinity is a noun, or a proper noun.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). It also clearly teaches that the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28; 1 Cor. 2:10–13). Everyone agrees the Father is God. Yet there is only one God (Mark 12:29, 1 Cor. 8:4–6, Jas. 2:19). How can we hold all four truths except to say all three are One God?

Jesus tells his apostles to baptize "in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). This is a proof-text: three distinct Persons united in the one divine name. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.

Jesus DID say he was God, so we already have the Father as God and the Son as God. In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"â€â€invoking and applying to himself the personal name of Godâ€â€"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

 

[Imagican]

While there ARE certainly the evidence IF one chooses to SEE it that God Christ and the Holy Spirit are THREE in one, there is little doubt that this 'concept' was NEVER specifically addressed in scripture.

And WHAt IS 'WRONG' with an understanding that God EMPOWERED Christ AT HIS WILL to DO that which was DONE? So many times I have been TOLD that Christ HAD to BE God in order to accomplish what was accomplished on the cross. WHY? Is NOT God ABLE to do that which He chooses to DO? If He SO CHOSE, is it beyond HIS ability to CHOOSE 'one' to die for sin that is NOT God Himelf?

While I UNDERSTAND the offerings of a 'triune God' or a 'trinity', I find that it LACKS more than it offers. To ATTEMPT to define God or His relationship TO His Son in the TERMS and words of men seems like a futile effort. For God HAS been revealed THROUGH His Son.

When we CHOOSE to offer distinct definition, we are FORCED to LIMIT our understanding. How often are we BOUND to that which we FIRST believe only to FIND OUT later that it was MOSTLY our OWN limits that we had PLACED on understanding that KEPT us in the dark? How often has history shown that the ACHEDEMICS of the time were SURE that 'others' were WRONG simply because that had CONFINED their understanding to what had been offered as FACT when indeed it was ANYTHING BUT. The Laws of physics have been altered and changed OVER AND OVER. We continually find mistakes offered by those that FIRST defined it. And OFTEN it is a rather SIMPLE principle, defined through ignorance, that LIIMITED further understanding until SOMEONE else, someone NOT LIMITED by previous understanding, comes along WITHOUT the 'pre-conceived' notion that IT CAN'T BE 'any other way' and WITHOUT these limitations is ABLE to SHOW a deeper and more significant TRUTH.

I find that 'tinity' and such DEFINITELY limits the possibilities and CUTS OFF a 'deeper understanding' other than what IT OFFERS. CONFINING the possibilities and in SUCH a manner that those that have chosen to follow it INSIST that it MUST be adhered to 'or else'.

I question HOW MANY this 'concept' has ACTUALLY been REVEALED to. NO, I do NOT mean; How many have CONVINCED themselves of what OTHERS have offered them. But HOW many has God Himself ACTUALLY revealed this 'concept to'. For what has been revealed to ME is that there is ONLY this concept in the minds and hearts of those that CHOOSE to 'believe' in it.

I have found my relationship falling short in NO measure due to my DENIAL of 'trinity'. And IF those that first introduced it had NOT been SO adamant about a concept NEVER offered in scripture, I may VERY WELL have considered it. But from the MANNER in which my brothers and sisters in Christ TREATED me over it, it became apparent from the FIRST offering that this was NOT offered in LOVE, But HATE. For those that witnessed my denial treated me as if I were some UTTER enemy.

While I could offer unbound love towards these, they would choose to spit utter vehemence into my face for NO OTHER reason than denial of 'trinity'. Folks, that goes a pretty good distance in SHOWING that 'those to which I refer' HAD hate in their hearts for their brother. and the Word offers PLAINLY that such have NO Christ in their hearts. That THESE are NOT 'children of God'. How could one EXPECT another to accept a doctrine that offers such animosity towards those that refuse to accept it?

Even here on the forums, I have been OFTEN accused of NOT having Christ in my heart for a LACK of adherance to this 'doctrine'. WHY? I confess that Christ IS the Son of God. That He came, brought us the Word and died on a cross. Rose after three days, spoke with His apostles and ROSE again to where He resided previous. And NOW sits at the RIGHT hand of God, the Father.

What MORE can I offer than an allegience to God through His Son and the LOVE that these have shared usward? The FRUIT should be apparent. And that IS discernable WITHOUT 'trinity' PLAINLY shows that EVEN IF 'trinity' is TRUTH, it is NOT a 'mandatory truth' that MUST be adhered to in order to KNOW God and His Son. For I KNOW no 'trinity' and I DO know God through His Son. The Spirit HAS been able to guide me and conform me to that which God wills. I HAVE submitted myself to the LOVE that has been given and KNOW that often I AM able to offer it in suitable means that is PLEASING to God. I AM able to offer forgiveness to my enemies NOW whereas there was a time that ALL I could conceive was MY OWN revenge. These CHANGES have taken place in my life WITHOUT my ability to DO IT myself. The EVIDENCE is rife to any that hear these words. And they are NOT offered lightly. These words are MANIFEST in the understanding that I offer.

while 'trinity' EXISTS, I question it's validity for WHAT does IT offer that Godhead does NOT? How is IT able to bring me ONE STEP CLOSER? The ONLY thing that I have witnesseed that it is ABLE to DO is separate 'brother from brother'. And when we consider the PAIN and suffering that has been commmited AGAINST those that refute this teaching, how then is it able to stand up to the TEST of LOVE?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Rick W]

The ONLY thing that I have witnesseed that it is ABLE to DO is separate 'brother from brother'. And when we consider the PAIN and suffering that has been commmited AGAINST those that refute this teaching, how then is it able to stand up to the TEST of LOVE?

I used to frequent another christian forum some years ago. That one was pretty much dominated by theistic evolutionists. Because the creationists would not accept their ways of thinking it was always put worth that creationism was a "stumbling block" not only for prospective believers but for believers in general causing rift and division among the brothers.
Today because of opposition for sexual preference it's often cited that those who oppose are not following the love of Christ causing rift and division among the churches.

 

[Imagican]

Potluck,

Yet 'creation' is SPECIFICALLY offered in utter definition in scripture. Not only is it SPECIFICALLY mentioned, we have detailed description of such.

Yet this 'trinity' is something that must be 'assumed'. Created by men of a 'philosophical' training YEARS after the death of Christ and His apostles. NEVER even MENTIONED in scripture.

While many would insist that it is a 'totality' of scripture discerned through TRUTH, I question the validity of accepting what 'those that created it' TOLD us to SEE. For IF this were as IMPORTANT a 'doctrine' for us to FOLLOW, it would ONLY stand to REASON that Paul, Peter, SOMEONE DESIGNATED apostleship WOULD have been the ONE or ONES to INTRODUCE it. Yet we find the word itself NOT EVEN BEING mentioned for WELL over a HUNDRED years AFTER the death and ressurection of Christ.

I understand your post and can SEE that it DOES have validity in many aspects of PERSONAL understanding. But I am NOT offering PERSONAL understanding here. I believe that it is "trinity'' that offered PERSONAL understanding of THOSE that 'created it'. Those that INSISTED upon offering DISTINCT definition of 'something' that has NEVER been offered in DETAIL. Choosing to DEFINE it ANYWAY. And the ONLY means that they HAD to DO so, was their previous philosophical learning concerning 'man's understanding'.

I still maintain that if NO ONE had EVER mentioned 'trinity' to ME. If ALL I had EVER had as 'guide' were the Bible and Spirit, I would to this day NEVER have even HEARD the 'word trinity'. And that my relationship would STILL be the SAME without it. That I would STILL believe that Jesus Christ IS the Son of God. That He was SENT by God to die for our sins. That He rose after three days and ascended BACK to heaven to sit at the RIGHT hand of the Father. NONE of this is altered by 'trinity'. I would STILL understand the LOVE of God towards His Son. And their love towards US.
'Trinity' does NOT define any of this nor does it make it ANY MORE possible to ACCEPT what has been offered usward.

My relationship with God through His Son has NOT been hampered by an acceptance or denial of 'trinity'. It is based on FAITH and adherance to the Words and deeds that have been offered. Whether Christ was 'created' by God or has eternally BEEN, this is tertiary in an understanding of the principles that matter MOST; that we LOVE God with all our hearts mind and soul, and that we love our neighbor as ourselves. The EXACT nature of God, and that of His Son has NEVER been PRECISELY offered either in Word or even in this 'trinity'.

Is God a 'Trinity' or 'Triune'? Who KNOWS? Is this ideology PARAMONT in the developing of a LOVING and LASTING relationship with God through His Son? In MY understanding, NO. whether there is or isn't a 'trinity' in Godhead is NOT the Penacle of understanding God OR His Son. Understanding the LOVE that They offered USWARD is 'iight years' beyond a desire or attempt at defining their EXACT nature in relationship. Father and Son are ENOUGH for us to come into their grace. Enough for us to KNOW Them. And when I pray, I pray to God in the NAME of Jesus Christ, His Son who came to us and DIED for us so that we would NOT be 'cut off' from the LOVE that His Father has to share with us. So that LIKE HIM, we TOO can BE 'children of God'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[SpiritualSon]

A trinity is the soul, body and spirit of a person. The Soul of Jesus Christ is the Father, as in John 14:9, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father." A second person did not come into this world, but God the Creator Himself, under the name Jesus Christ. The Son was born in time, which means in this world, not from eternity. Jehovah the Creator descending from heaven to be the Soul of Child born of virgin Mary. This was done at the time the angel said to Mary, that the Holy Spirit come upon her.

Harry :fadein:

 

[Imagican]

While 'God in the flesh' SOUNDS 'good', how is it that we have no such understading offered in scripture? Yet we DO have such words as these:

Heb 9:

[16] For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[17] For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
[18] Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
[19] For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
[20] Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
[21] Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
[25] Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

As you read these words, how can it BE that God, (Jesus), is in the PRESENCE of God, (the Father)? For one to BE in the presence OF then of necessesity, the one MUST be DIFFERENT than the OTHER. Otherwise, we DO INDEED have TWO Gods. Yet we KNOW that there is but ONE True God. And IF the 'message IS' that Jesus IS God Himself, why the 'tricky' offerings such as the one above? Why would there be such statements offered IF Jesus IS God Himself? For INSTEAD of offering EVIDENCE of 'trinity', such statements as that offered above REFUTE even the POSSIBLITY of 'trinity'. For HOW can I be in the presence of MY father, yet BE my father at the SAME time? A mystery? Or simple PROOF that 'trinity' is a vain attempt to 'create' a 'different God'. A God of MAN'S creation and limited by the definition offered by philosophers and such that CHOSE to 'create' such a God.

These are NOT 'my words' folks. These are words offered by the apostles. Those that KNEW God and KNEW His Son. Offering PLAINLY that the Son was OFFERED UP as sacrifice. The LAMB of God. NOT the Lamb that WAS God; But the Son of God offered up as the ULTIMATE sacrifice and offering of LOVE. A God willing to SEND His Son to DIE for our sins. A God that was willing to witness the SUFFERING of His Son for OUR SAKES. And an OBEDIENT Son willing to FOLLOW His Father's will NO MATTER WHAT. To the end that resulted in suffering in such a manner as NO man has ever suffered WORSE. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do". These words echoing the LOVE of The Son for His brothers and sisters that He suffered and DIED for. "My Father, WHY hath thou forsaken me". A statement of utter solitude and utter confusion. For upon this moment, Christ, the Son of God, left solitary and ALONE on the cross. Abandoned by the Father in order for Him to TAKE ON the SINS OF THE WORLD. And HOW could this have been accomplished by ANYTHING other than a "man". For as sin came INTO this world through ONE MAN, so too did it NEED be DEFEATED by ONE MAN, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[SpiritualSon]

A trinity is the soul, body and spirit of a person. The Soul of Jesus Christ is the Father, as in John 14:9, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father." A second person did not come into this world, but God the Creator Himself, under the name Jesus Christ. The Son was born in time, which means in this world, not from eternity. Jehovah the Creator descending from heaven to be the Soul of Child born of virgin Mary. This was done at the time the angel said to Mary, that the Holy Spirit come upon her.

Harry :fadein:

Paul believed that people have trinity in them, as in his writings, "May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23"

Harry

 

[follower of Christ]

The Trinity

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
To show that Jesus IS God and to show that the Holy Spirit IS God and therefore the Trinity teaching is scriptural truth.

Supporting Evidence

1.0
Is Jesus God ?

Isaiah shows us exactly who Jesus is.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

And Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and my God!
(Joh 20:28 MKJV)

If Jesus isnt His own person in the Godhead, then He must be a liar here because He shows that the FATHER knows the day and hour here, but the SON does not.

But concerning that day and the hour, no one knows, not the angels, those in Heaven, nor the Son, except the Father.
(Mark 13:32 LITV)

*IF* Jesus isnt His own person then He would HAVE to know the day and hour and thus He would be a LIAR for saying that ONLY His Father knew, NOT the Son.


1.5

For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
(Colossians 2:9 EMTV)


Godhead
G2320
θεÃ΀ηÂ
theotēs
Thayer Definition:
1) deity
1a) the state of being God, Godhead


G2320
θεÃ΀ηÂ
theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
From G2316; divinity (abstractly): - godhead.

REGARDLESS of how the word theotes was RENDERED, its MEANING and INTENT is 'divinity'...ie Jesus Christ is DIVINE...ie a DEITY....ie GOD.
If Jesus IS God yet Jesus does NOT KNOW the day and hour of His return but ONLY the Father does (aka GOD) then there MUST BE some DISTINCTION between them...even tho BOTH ARE God.


2.0
Is the Holy Spirit 'God' ?

scripture shows that the Spirit of GOD came down upon Christ...

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him.
(Mat 3:16 EMTV)

And Luke shows that this IS the Holy Spirit.

and the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came out of heaven, saying, "You are My beloved Son; in You I have found delight."
(Luk 3:22 EMTV)

Thus the evidence shows that the 'Spirit of God' and the 'Holy Spirit' are one and the same.

3.0
And here we tie it all together.

And having been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon Him. And behold, a voice came out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I have found delight."
(Matthew 3:16-17 EMTV)

1. Jesus, the Son who is called 'Mighty God' in Isaiah.
2. The Spirit descending in the form of a dove, who is the Spirit OF God.
3. The Father speaking from heaven, obvious enough.

 

[Hawkins]

1. Jesus, the Son who is called 'Mighty God' in Isaiah.
2. The Spirit descending in the form of a dove, who is the Spirit OF God.
3. The Father speaking from heaven, obvious enough.

Personally I have an experience, and I've spent like 3 and a half years to finally realized that all the above occurred at the same time, quite virtually though. So I believe that through that experience He showed His Trinity to me. And that's actually before I heard about God's Trinity nature, and that's before I was fully turned into a Christian, and that's before I had any Biblical knowledge, and that's before I know what Christianity is.

So yes, I believe in His Trinity.

 

[sk0rpi0n]

I cannot find anything in the Bible where Jesus or any other prophet says that God is triune.
Instead they all repeat that God is one. Even God does not say anything about tri-unity!
I know Paul said something that suggested a triune god, but I am simply not willing to accept Pauls sayings over the words of God, Jesus and the prophets.

So, I dont accept the concept of a triune god.

 

[Hawkins]

I cannot find anything in the Bible where Jesus or any other prophet says that God is triune.
Instead they all repeat that God is one. Even God does not say anything about tri-unity!
I know Paul said something that suggested a triune god, but I am simply not willing to accept Pauls sayings over the words of God, Jesus and the prophets.

So, I dont accept the concept of a triune god.

Prophetically, I like this, and I believe that I am the first to figure this verse out, somehow (and I can't explain all the coincidences on me, haha...).

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his
shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

He will be called......Wonderful Counselor (HS), Mighty God (God), Everlasting Father (Father), Prince of Peace( Son ).

Mighty God = Father + Son + HS

 

[sk0rpi0n]

Prophetically, I like this, and I believe that I am the first to figure this verse out, somehow (and I can't explain all the coincidences on me, haha...).

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his
shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

He will be called......Wonderful Counselor (HS), Mighty God (God), Everlasting Father (Father), Prince of Peace( Son ).

hmmm...I thought the Father, son and the holy spirit comprised the 'trinity'.
Now, please explain to me how Jesus (who is the 'son') be the father and the holy spirit at the same time?

 

[Tina]

I cannot find anything in the Bible where Jesus or any other prophet says that God is triune.
Instead they all repeat that God is one. Even God does not say anything about tri-unity!

The word "Trinity" or "Triune" is not found in the Bible. It is merely a CONCEPT, a one-word convenient term for Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and there are ample scriptures to support this concept.

I know Paul said something that suggested a triune god, but I am simply not willing to accept Pauls sayings over the words of God, Jesus and the prophets.

Excuse me ... but Paul's words are part of the word of God and he was an apostle ...... :biglol

So, I dont accept the concept of a triune god.

Typical Muslim response .....


.

 

[sk0rpi0n]

I cannot find anything in the Bible where Jesus or any other prophet says that God is triune.
Instead they all repeat that God is one. Even God does not say anything about tri-unity!

The word "Trinity" or "Triune" is not found in the Bible. It is merely a CONCEPT, a one-word convenient term for Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and there are ample scriptures to support this concept.

Even the 'concept' of a triune God is not mentioned by ANY of the old testament prophets or Jesus.
The message that "God is one" is repeated throughout the Bible by OT prophets and Jesus.

So far the only scriptures Ive seen in support of the trinity concept are either...

a)Verses where God, Jesus and the holy spirit are mentioned.

or

b) A misinterpretation of Old Testament verses. (example- Abrahams vision of the three men.)

Correct me if I am wrong.

If you insist on selecting one verse that suggests the trinity over SEVERAL verses that teach that God is not a trinity, go right ahead.

I know Paul said something that suggested a triune god, but I am simply not willing to accept Pauls sayings over the words of God, Jesus and the prophets.

Excuse me ... but Paul's words are part of the word of God and he was an apostle ...... :biglol

I find it disturbing that many christians hold Pauls words as being as important as the words of God and Jesus. A casual read through the new testament shows the many contradictions between Pauls and Jesus' teachings. The plot takes a sudden twist when Paul comes into the picture. Thats my problem with Paul.

So when someone accepts Paul as a true apostle, they do so based on his account of visions from Jesus, we would need to essentially place full faith in the accuracy/honesty of his visions.

So, I dont accept the concept of a triune god.

Typical Muslim response .....

You would get the same response from a Jew as well. What is tge point you are trying to make?

 

[Tina]

Even the 'concept' of a triune God is not mentioned by ANY of the old testament prophets or Jesus.
The message that "God is one" is repeated throughout the Bible by OT prophets and Jesus.

Who’s disputing that ? ... Nobody’s disputing that “God is oneâ€Â.

So far the only scriptures Ive seen in support of the trinity concept are either...

a)Verses where God, Jesus and the holy spirit are mentioned.

These are more than enough scriptures to support the concept of Trinity.
What else do you expect the Bible to say in order for YOU to be convinced ?


John 14:6-7
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

Matthew 3:16
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him."

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

John 10:30
I and the Father are one.

John 14:9-10
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hopeâ€â€the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Luke 24:52
Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

2 Corinthians 13:14
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

John 14:16-17
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever the Spirit of truth.

John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 15:26
"When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is trueâ€â€even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Romans 8:9
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

1 Peter 1:2
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:

2 Peter 1:1
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours.

2 Peter 1:21
For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:38
God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

or

b) A misinterpretation of Old Testament verses. (example- Abrahams vision of the three men.)

Please elaborate…. What do you mean “misinterpretation†? ………
As a Muslim, do you think your interpretation is superior to ours ? ?

Correct me if I am wrong.

If you insist on selecting one verse that suggests the trinity over SEVERAL verses that teach that God is not a trinity, go right ahead.

What several verses do you claim that teach God is not a trinity ?

I find it disturbing that many christians hold Pauls words as being as important as the words of God and Jesus. A casual read through the new testament shows the many contradictions between Pauls and Jesus' teachings. The plot takes a sudden twist when Paul comes into the picture. Thats my problem with Paul.

That’s right…. It’s YOUR problem, not ours !

Please elaborate on the “contradictions†between Paul’s and Jesus’ teachings in another thread.

So when someone accepts Paul as a true apostle, they do so based on his account of visions from Jesus, we would need to essentially place full faith in the accuracy/honesty of his visions.

Christians don't doubt God's Word.

You would get the same response from a Jew as well. What is the point you are trying to make?

Jews ain’t Christians , neither are Muslims !

If there’s one major issue that I’ve been defending over and over again with Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses and other sects, it’s this issue about Trinity.

 

[SpiritualSon]

A trinity is the soul,and body and spirit in a person. The Soul,Body and Spirit of
Our Lord Jesus Christ,is the Father Son and Holy Spirit
The New Church (Swedenborg)is sometimes called modalist (wrongly!), and
we open ourselves to this when we say Father, Son and Holy
Spirit are “three aspects†of God. Sometimes we are called
modalist because they do not know what else to do with our
denial of three distinct persons while we affirm Jesus’ full
Divinity. Historically, only the modalists did that. Often
Christians say, "three aspects†of God too, not realizing what it
means.
It is important that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are much more
than three of God’s aspects, appearances or names. They are the
three essentials of one Divine Human Beingâ€â€soul, body, and
activity/influence. No oneâ€â€not even Godâ€â€can be human
without all three of these. Talking about the New Church trinity
is a great opportunity to show how the New Church idea of God
and His incarnation is new, yet Biblical, is simple, and makes
sense.
“Father, all things of mine are yours, and all of yours are
mine.†What does this mean, if not that the Father's Divine
belongs to the Son's Human, and the Son's Human to the Father's
Divine? Consequently in Christ God is man and man is God, and
thus they make one as soul and body make one….It is plain from
this that the Father's Divine is the Son's soul, and the Son's
Human is the Father's body.

All prayers and worsphips should be towards Our One God,Our Lord Jesus Christ,and we must live according to the Ten Comandments

Harry

 

[follower of Christ]

I cannot find anything in the Bible where Jesus or any other prophet says that God is triune.

So the word 'trinity' or 'triune' doesnt appear in the text expressly so the concept of the trinity therefore cannot exist

Personally, I'll look at the overwhelming EVIDENCE that supports this concept we call 'trinity' ;)