Is God Immutable?

[JohnDB]

I'm posting this question because as iron sharpens iron I'm thinking that several people here aren't understanding these concepts and absolutes about God very clearly.

So consider the following:

Is God really Immutable?
What do you think that this means?
How does God's eternity play into this aspect?
Do these two attributes really make God different from us in respect to emotional actions?

 

[Jim Parker]

What do you think that this (immutable) means?

According to Myriam Webster, "mmutable" means: not capable of or susceptible to change

Mal 3:6a (NKJV) For I am the LORD, I do not change;

Immutable comes to us through Middle English from Latin immutabilis, meaning "unable to change." "Immutabilis" was formed by combining the negative prefix in- with "mutabilis," which comes from the Latin verb mutare and means "to change." Some other English words that can be traced back to "mutare" are "commute" (the earliest sense of which is simply "to change or alter"), "mutate" ("to undergo significant and basic alteration"), "permute" ("to change the order or arrangement of"), and "transmute" ("to change or alter in form, appearance, or nature"). There's also the antonym of "immutable" - "mutable" - which of course can mean "prone to change" and "capable of change or of being changed." (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immutable)

Is God really Immutable?

Yes


iakov the fool

 

[smaller]

I'm posting this question because as iron sharpens iron I'm thinking that several people here aren't understanding these concepts and absolutes about God very clearly.

So consider the following:

Is God really Immutable?
What do you think that this means?
How does God's eternity play into this aspect?
Do these two attributes really make God different from us in respect to emotional actions?

The Only One who knows the entirety of what God Is and Consists of is God Himself. No one gets to say what that is. No one. Ever.

Can God Change? When we have no idea what the entirety of Who/What God Is, how can we even say or claim what God can and can not do? Jesus held up some unfathomable conditions on this matter.

With God nothing is impossible. Luke 1:37

With God all things are possible. Matt. 19:26

Do you see any boundaries there? I don't.

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

James 1:17 says that God cast no shadow and has no variableness, so, He is immutable.

 

[turnorburn]

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[turnorburn]

The Only One who knows the entirety of what God Is and Consists of is God Himself. No one gets to say what that is. No one. Ever.

Can God Change? When we have no idea what the entirety of Who/What God Is, how can we even say or claim what God can and can not do? Jesus held up some unfathomable conditions on this matter.

With God nothing is impossible. Luke 1:37

With God all things are possible. Matt. 19:26

Do you see any boundaries there? I don't.

You'd best hope he doesn't change..

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

 

[smaller]

You'd best hope he doesn't change..

For us to apply any restrictions on what God Is and what He Can Do is a virtual impossibility.

We can put some kind of God carving in our own minds, and say "this is how God IS." And He Changes Not. And all that will turn out to be is our own fanciful notions of God and not much more.

Imagine Power far beyond and greater than what our own imaginations could ever even begin to concoct, and there is the mere and minor entry point.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

1 John 3:20
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

 

[Mike S]

For us to apply any restrictions on what God Is and what He Can Do is a virtual impossibility.

We can put some kind of God carving in our own minds, and say "this is how God IS." And He Changes Not. And all that will turn out to be is our own fanciful notions of God and not much more.

Imagine Power far beyond and greater than what our own imaginations could ever even begin to concoct, and there is the mere and minor entry point.


1 John 3:20
For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

God is sovereign. God exists outside His creation of time and space, and outside the abilities of our very limited language to give definition to His nature.

 

[smaller]

God is sovereign. God exists outside His creation of time and space, and outside the abilities of our very limited language to give definition to His nature.

God: So far beyond my petty carvings.

Ephesians 3:20
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

I cast aside my own imaginations in The Light of the Above.

 

[OzSpen]

With God nothing is impossible. Luke 1:37

With God all things are possible. Matt. 19:26

Do you see any boundaries there? I don't.

smaller,

If with God nothing is impossible or all things are possible, then it is possible for God to sin. Is that so? Yet, Scripture has stated that He cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18 ESV; Titus 1:2 ESV).

So, there are boundaries around what God can and cannot do. Scripture affirms that 'it is impossible for God to lie'. There you have one example that something is impossible for God to do.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

For us to apply any restrictions on what God Is and what He Can Do is a virtual impossibility.

God has placed restrictions on what He can do Himself: 'God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone' (James 1:13 NASB).

 

[smaller]

smaller,

If with God nothing is impossible or all things are possible, then it is possible for God to sin. Is that so? Yet, Scripture has stated that He cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18 ESV; Titus 1:2 ESV).

It is disingenuous theological methodology to even begin to try to equate God with any particular thing or matter in creation. I call that a basic foul. There is "no thing" that we can compare or "equalize" God to.

Your attempt above about God not lying is easily revoked by scripture. God can and does use lies against liars. God can and does use evil against evil. God does have the power of multiplied retributions. All of these are scriptural realities. Does that make or equate God to any of the disbursements of those powers/matters? Never.

So, there are boundaries around what God can and cannot do.

Your argument, sorry to turn your own retort against you, is quite illogical. You claim God can not sin, but God created a world filled with sinners. Are there no implications there whatsoever to God? You get the point, I hope. God IS implicated by the fact of being The Creator with everything that goes on in His creation. But this doesn't make or equate God to any of it or the sum of it.

Scripture affirms that 'it is impossible for God to lie'. There you have one example that something is impossible for God to do.
Oz

You have merely dragged God down to the level of some "thing" that exists in creation and nothing more. And if you observe the above and knew the scriptures you'd also know that God directed and employed lying spirits.

2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

Now we can do worthless mental gymnastics with ourselves over this matter, trying to exonerate, excuse and extract God from that fact above, OR we can understand that whatever exists under His Domain and His creation serves His Sole Purposes and Pleasures.

I am in the latter camp, if it's not apparent to you.

 

[smaller]

God has placed restrictions on what He can do Himself: 'God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone' (James 1:13 NASB).

Again, you are trying to equate God to a "created thing or power." That entire theological methodology is severely faulted. God can create any thing, any power, use any deployments of same and none of it or the sum of it can be equated to God.

 

[smaller]

You'd best hope he doesn't change..

Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

God does not bow to the term "change" either. Change is UNDER His Domain, it does not control Him or define Him.

The majority of us construct a God in our own mind, and to that construction, we bow.

I have no such carvings of my own mind and consider them to be idolatry of our minds.

 

[smaller]

IF anyone recognizes that we have no credible conceptions or definitions of An Eternally Perfect without beginning or ending Spirit, it's a great starting place to get to know God.

From that point, of recognition of this kind of vast Superiority, we can start to engage His Expressions in Word and Image through His Son, Jesus, in whom we have been given a focal point of relativity of/to God Himself. We take our seat, BELOW. It's the only seat available in His House.

God put the entirety of His Spirit in His Own Image, His Son, His Own Word Living.

Imageo Dei.

Do we not have the same respect for what His Image has conveyed as we would for the Vast Beyond Any Definition Spirit of God? By picking up His Word it does not mean it will bow to me, but I to Him in understanding His Divine Superiority over "all things" including me and you.

 

[th1b.taylor]

smaller,

If with God nothing is impossible or all things are possible, then it is possible for God to sin. Is that so? Yet, Scripture has stated that He cannot lie (Hebrews 6:18 ESV; Titus 1:2 ESV).

So, there are boundaries around what God can and cannot do. Scripture affirms that 'it is impossible for God to lie'. There you have one example that something is impossible for God to do.

Oz

That is an Atheist's question and is akin to can God create a rock He cannot move? We do not and we are not able to know the whole mind of God any more than we can explain all about three distinct persons can be one God.

 

[JohnDB]

That is an Atheist's question and is akin to can God create a rock He cannot move? We do not and we are not able to know the whole mind of God any more than we can explain all about three distinct persons can be one God.

Well...
Actually it's a disingenuous question of unequal things. IE: What does the color blue taste like?
There are a lot of things God can't do...
He can't forget.
He can't sin.
He can't take orders or be forced into things.
He won't force people to Love Him.
He won't act contrary to what is in our best interests.
He won't go back on promises.

God cannot be bad because God is infinitely busy being good.

 

[OzSpen]

It is disingenuous theological methodology to even begin to try to equate God with any particular thing or matter in creation. I call that a basic foul. There is "no thing" that we can compare or "equalize" God to.

That's a straw man. I said nothing of the sort.

Your attempt above about God not lying is easily revoked by scripture. God can and does use lies against liars. God can and does use evil against evil. God does have the power of multiplied retributions. All of these are scriptural realities. Does that make or equate God to any of the disbursements of those powers/matters? Never.

You say God uses lies against liars but provide not one example. Not one! That's what is distortion.

God uses evil against evil, you say. Again, not one example given by you. Evidence is lacking.

Could it be that are confusing judgment that God sends with God creating evil?

Your argument, sorry to turn your own retort against you, is quite illogical. You claim God can not sin, but God created a world filled with sinners. Are there no implications there whatsoever to God? You get the point, I hope. God IS implicated by the fact of being The Creator with everything that goes on in His creation. But this doesn't make or equate God to any of it or the sum of it.

You don't seem to be able to read the Bible clearly. God DID NOT create 'a world filled with sinners'. What did God create? 'And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good' (Gen 1:31 ESV). What God created was good and it was human beings and angels (the snake) who fell into sin (see Gen 2 ESV).

You have merely dragged God down to the level of some "thing" that exists in creation and nothing more. And if you observe the above and knew the scriptures you'd also know that God directed and employed lying spirits.

This is a false accusation. I have demonstrated from Scripture that God has put boundaries around what he can and cannot do. That's God stating what he does in Scripture, the God-breathed, infallible Word of God.

2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil against thee.

Now we can do worthless mental gymnastics with ourselves over this matter, trying to exonerate, excuse and extract God from that fact above, OR we can understand that whatever exists under His Domain and His creation serves His Sole Purposes and Pleasures.

I am in the latter camp, if it's not apparent to you.

The better translation of 2 Chron 18:22 (ESV) is, 'Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The Lord has declared disaster concerning you.”

The Lord declares disaster and puts a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets is His means of bringing judgment by disaster. That does not make God a liar. It makes God the Judge. You and I will stand before him as such one day for judgment of our rewards, not judgment of salvation if we are truly saved.

I'm in the camp that follows the sovereign Lord (Ps 135:6 ESV) and he cannot sin (Heb 6:18 ESV).

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

The better translation of 2 Chron 18:22 (ESV) is, 'Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The Lord has declared disaster concerning you.”

That, IMHO, is a good example of God allowing an apostate person have exactly what he demands to be given. Ahab appointed those prophets to serve in his court specifically to tell him what he wanted to hear.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

You say God uses lies against liars but provide not one example. Not one! That's what is distortion.

Here's an example of something similar to that. (But definitely NOT specifically that.)
1Sa 16:1-6a (NKJV) Now the LORD said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? Fill your horn with oil, and go; I am sending you to Jesse the Bethlehemite. For I have provided Myself a king among his sons.”
And Samuel said, “How can I go? If Saul hears it, he will kill me.” But the LORD said, “Take a heifer with you, and say, ‘I have come to sacrifice to the LORD.’ “Then invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what you shall do; you shall anoint for Me the one I name to you.”
So Samuel did what the LORD said, and went to Bethlehem.
So the Lord told Samuel to lie to Saul about his purpose in visiting the house of Jesse.

Could it be that are confusing judgment that God sends with God creating evil?

God uses "evil" pedagogically as when a father disciplines (spanks) a child who disobeys and does something that puts his life in danger. (like running out into the street after having been warned several times) The person being disciplined (taught a lesson) perceives his experience as "evil," but it is the hand of the Father lovingly applying discipline so that the child will live.
IMHO

iakov the fool