Is God Immutable?

[Brother Mike]

God bows to no thing. Not time. Not space.

All things are of Him, by Him and for Him. It never works the other way around, ever.

Rev. 12:4

Time is something created by God to denote the sun moving over earth a complete circuit to the end of Heaven and it is one day. (Psalm 19) (Ecc 1:5) There is no "outside of time" or any scripture denoting some outside of time concepts. You don't mix Pseudo science of men with scriptures.

What we call space (Firmament) is where God placed the Sun for day, and the Luminaries of the moon and stars for night. The firmament is always above, not wrapped around or beneath anyone.

Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
Col_3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

So God sits on the Chug above Earth. (Isa 40:22) Chug is a Hebrew Male noun denoting a thing and backed by Eze chapter 1. His throne is above the Firmament or what man think is space. He spread it out and walks on it also.

Everything was made for him and by him, through Him and nothing was made that was not made for Him. Quoting a scripture in Col does not provide the scripture I asked for.

My point was we should not believe things or tell others things about God unless we have something called a scripture to back it up. I was slain in the spirit is not a scripture for example.

Mike.

 

[smaller]

Time is something created by God to denote the sun moving over earth a complete circuit to the end of Heaven and it is one day. (Psalm 19) (Ecc 1:5) There is no "outside of time" or any scripture denoting some outside of time concepts. You don't mix Pseudo science of men with scriptures.

The Spirit of God in Christ does not bow to time. Time serves Him, it is NOT His master or overlord. God tells the beginning from the end, and does so from His Divine Seat of Superiority to "time."

Time is something that God has put US under, but He is not put under TIME.

What we call space (Firmament) is where God placed the Sun for day, and the Luminaries of the moon and stars for night. The firmament is always above, not wrapped around or beneath anyone.

Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
Col_3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

So God sits on the Chug above Earth. (Isa 40:22) Chug is a Hebrew Male noun denoting a thing and backed by Eze chapter 1. His throne is above the Firmament or what man think is space. He spread it out and walks on it also.

I can only imagine what you think that means. Everything of God's creation Is In The Eternity of His Own Being. Creation and time exist in Him, but He is not "a subject" to any of it, but it, of Him.

We simply can not equate God to His creation, period. Or make/force Him to be 'subject' to it.

Everything was made for him and by him, through Him and nothing was made that was not made for Him. Quoting a scripture in Col does not provide the scripture I asked for.

My point was we should not believe things or tell others things about God unless we have something called a scripture to back it up. I was slain in the spirit is not a scripture for example.

Mike.

I don't adhere to any school of theological thought that makes God a subject of anything or anyone. I bow to His Superiority over all things and that is where that entire discourse ends for me. I am in awe of Him, Alone. Not my carvings of same. I have no carvings to bow to or to make HIM bow down to. To me that is the opposite of 'faith.'

God is not my magic little trigger where I get to push His Buttons and things show up for me on cue, because I think so. That's not God. It's imagination worship.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Now, tell me how God Bows to what you think you see? I say such claims are delusions of men. The only legitimate "chess match" we have before His Face is to recognize we lost the game before it even started.

 

[th1b.taylor]

You have your work cut out Smaller, may God bless.

 

[OzSpen]

Wave your hand at this scriptural reality then Oz. The dead horse your positions are beating is your own positions version of god.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

The fact remains: 'And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day' (Gen 1:31 ESV).

The disobedience to which you refer applies to what happened after the sin in Gen 3 (ESV). God did not create sinners. God created a 'very good' couple and they became sinners and sin came to the whole human race.

Rom 5:12 (ESV) confirms this: 'Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned'.

Sin and death came through the one man, Adam, and this sin and death have spread to all humanity with all human beings sinning. You can't squirm out of this with your assertion that 'God created a world filled with sinners' (smaller #12).

It is biblical teaching that God did not create sinners in the beginning. He created human beings who were 'very good' and gave them the ability to obey or disobey God (eat or not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). They chose to eat and sin was passed onto the whole human race - including you and me.

So, it is not biblical to assert that God created the world of sinners.

Oz

 

[Brother Mike]

The Spirit of God in Christ does not bow to time. Time serves Him, it is NOT His master or overlord. God tells the beginning from the end, and does so from His Divine Seat of Superiority to "time."

Time is something that God has put US under, but He is not put under TIME.


I can only imagine what you think that means. Everything of God's creation Is In The Eternity of His Own Being. Creation and time exist in Him, but He is not "a subject" to any of it, but it, of Him.

We simply can not equate God to His creation, period. Or make/force Him to be 'subject' to it.


I don't adhere to any school of theological thought that makes God a subject of anything or anyone. I bow to His Superiority over all things and that is where that entire discourse ends for me. I am in awe of Him, Alone. Not my carvings of same. I have no carvings to bow to or to make HIM bow down to. To me that is the opposite of 'faith.'

God is not my magic little trigger where I get to push His Buttons and things show up for me on cue, because I think so. That's not God. It's imagination worship.

Isaiah 55:9
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Now, tell me how God Bows to what you think you see? I say such claims are delusions of men. The only legitimate "chess match" we have before His Face is to recognize we lost the game before it even started.

I understand what your saying, but it's far from a scripture that God is 1) Sovereign and 2) God lives outside of time and space. The FAther puts things in his timing when He is good and ready. I get that.

Our ways though are suppose to be His ways. We are always suppose to increase in the knowledge of God in wisdom and spiritual understanding, be not ignorant of his will and anything we not be perfect minded, God shall bring our attention to that.

I think my point was saying things with no scripture or talking about God with catch religious phrases. , not to get into time and what people consider space above. It's not that I don't agree with what you have told me.

Mike.

 

[GodsGrace]

Just a few thoughts:

1. Does there need to be scripture for every word we speak of God?
Is God NOT sovereign?
Who is above Him?

We speak of the Trinity.
Where is the scripture?

2. God lives outside of time and space :
This is just a way of saying that God is not part of his creation since He created time and He created space.
God did not create Himself and so He must necessarily be Outside oh His creation.

If I build a car, I must be outside my work, I am not a part of it, not a part of the car.

3. Is God immutable?
If God could change, would we be able to trust Him (anything He says ).

Wondering

 

[Brother Mike]

Just a few thoughts:

1. Does there need to be scripture for every word we speak of God?
Is God NOT sovereign?
Who is above Him?

We speak of the Trinity.
Where is the scripture?

2. God lives outside of time and space :
This is just a way of saying that God is not part of his creation since He created time and He created space.
God did not create Himself and so He must necessarily be Outside oh His creation.

If I build a car, I must be outside my work, I am not a part of it, not a part of the car.

3. Is God immutable?
If God could change, would we be able to trust Him (anything He says ).

Wondering

God is sovereign is not a scripture, there is only one Lord God and One Lord Jesus Christ, both mentioned 52 times in scriptures together. Are any like them? No, none. However, Sovereign is also used to say God does what He wants, when He wants, to who He wants despite what God said in His word. That is not Sovereign, that is an outlaw.

Trinity? That is a RCC Doctrine. Western Civilization stole it, changed it to fit their own belief's.

Did not Jesus say my Father in Heaven? Who made Heaven? Does not God uphold all things according to the Word of His power? Is he apart from what He made? God lives outside of time and space is tied to God knows the end from the Beginning despite the many scripture contrary to it. We are told God knows the heart, and rewards man according to "HIS" ways, not according to some crystal ball foreknowledge and God forbid some type of forced election.

God does not change His word Ever, nor will God violate what He already said. However, a less sure word to a man often is conditional. As God broke his Promise to Israel concerning the Promise land in Numbers 14, but His ways are that His mercy endures forever and He does not willing afflict man, though He has had to judge despite what He really wanted for them.

Religious phrases often have some bad doctrine behind them and hence I accept scripture only.

God bless.

 

[Jim Parker]

Time is something created by God to denote the sun moving over earth a complete circuit to the end of Heaven and it is one day. (Psalm 19) (Ecc 1:5) There is no "outside of time" or any scripture denoting some outside of time concepts. You don't mix Pseudo science of men with scriptures.

Time is part of Creation.
God is not part of creation.
God is not subject to time.

 

[smaller]

The fact remains: 'And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day' (Gen 1:31 ESV).

The disobedience to which you refer applies to what happened after the sin in Gen 3 (ESV). God did not create sinners. God created a 'very good' couple and they became sinners and sin came to the whole human race.

I'd suggest then that the scriptures need a rewrite to support your positions. Adam should have been inserted as an exception. But of course that's not going to happen.

Yes, God, God bound "everyone" to disobedience, exactly as the scripture says. Romans 11:32.

It is biblical teaching that God did not create sinners in the beginning. He created human beings who were 'very good' and gave them the ability to obey or disobey God (eat or not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). They chose to eat and sin was passed onto the whole human race - including you and me.

I don't think your positions proposals can stand the weight of scriptural scrutiny.

It is PAUL who tells us exactly, to very specific points or order, HOW Adam, the natural man was made, and does so quite succinctly in 1 Cor. 15:42-46. And this aligns perfectly with PAUL's statement of fact in Romans 11:32 as well.

What you have going on is really a story that you bought into, probably a long time ago, and all your positions are built on that faulty premise. Sorry to have to kick the legs out from under it. Had to kick that phony story out from under the same phony story line myself. Adam was made HOW PAUL SAID he was made and that's the SCRIPTURAL account, not a phony story.

So, it is not biblical to assert that God created the world of sinners.

Oz

God created exactly what we had then, what we have now, and what we will have going forward. I don't practice giving excuses to The Creator, trying to "protect" my petty little version of God that I concoct in my own mind, trying to exonerate Him from what exists in His creation. I see no point whatsoever in such a storyline or in such a God, uninterested, incapable, isolated, can't be engaged when it comes to the facts of evil and sin. That is not a credible story line.

 

[Free]

I'd suggest then that the scriptures need a rewrite to support your positions. Adam should have been inserted as an exception. But of course that's not going to happen.

Yes, God, God bound "everyone" to disobedience, exactly as the scripture says. Romans 11:32.


I don't think your positions proposals can stand the weight of scriptural scrutiny.

It is PAUL who tells us exactly, to very specific points or order, HOW Adam, the natural man was made, and does so quite succinctly in 1 Cor. 15:42-46. And this aligns perfectly with PAUL's statement of fact in Romans 11:32 as well.

What you have going on is really a story that you bought into, probably a long time ago, and all your positions are built on that faulty premise. Sorry to have to kick the legs out from under it. Had to kick that phony story out from under the same phony story line myself. Adam was made HOW PAUL SAID he was made and that's the SCRIPTURAL account, not a phony story.


God created exactly what we had then, what we have now, and what we will have going forward. I don't practice giving excuses to The Creator, trying to "protect" my petty little version of God that I concoct in my own mind, trying to exonerate Him from what exists in His creation. I see no point whatsoever in such a storyline or in such a God, uninterested, incapable, isolated, can't be engaged when it comes to the facts of evil and sin. That is not a credible story line.

So it's fair to say then that God called sin and sinners good, correct?

 

[smaller]

So it's fair to say then that God called sin and sinners good, correct?

It is only in Gods Hands, can such be seen.

But when people try to isolate and extract God from His Creation, they think "things" are good.

Strictly speaking, and answer me truthfully, IF God bound us to disobedience SO THAT we, some of us anyway, would come to know His Mercy in Christ, is God Justified by using disobedience to that end? Simple question.

 

[Free]

It is only in Gods Hands, can such be seen.

But when people try to isolate and extract God from His Creation, they think "things" are good.

I asked a simple question which needs only a simple answer, such as "yes" or "no". Is it fair to say that God called sin and sinners good?

Strictly speaking, and answer me truthfully, IF God bound us to disobedience SO THAT we, some of us anyway, would come to know His Mercy in Christ, is God Justified by using disobedience to that end? Simple question.

If God bound who to disobedience?

 

[smaller]

I asked a simple question which needs only a simple answer, such as "yes" or "no". Is it fair to say that God called sin and sinners good?

I've already answered that question free. IN Gods Own Hands is VERY GOOD.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made

Do you see God letting loose of Himself in that? I don't.

So, I asked YOU a question. IF God made disobedience, BOUND everyone to disobedience, and USES disobedience to show His Mercy, IS THAT GOOD?

You should be able to answer. Yes, of course. But the logic does not follow that "disobedience" itself IS GOOD.

If God bound who to disobedience?

Everyone.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


And don't try to drag God Himself in Christ into that picture either, because it won't and can't apply to God.

This christian fantasy that the "knowledge of evil" in the Garden, which GOD MADE, is good is patently false. As is the equal fantasy that the deceiver, the tempter, the law twister was "good."

It is from Paul that we see the facts about "how" Adam was made. 1 Cor. 15:42-46. Not from Christian fantasy tales about everything being 'very good' APART from Gods Own Hands in the making of "very good." God HAS TO BLANKET that statement with HIS OWN WORK in mind.

 

[smaller]

God lives outside of time and space. The FAther puts things in his timing when He is good and ready. I get that.

Good! See how easy it is to agree.

Our ways though are suppose to be His ways.

No, they are NOT. It's not possible for 'US' individually or collectively to BE GOD. That is impossible unless we ARE GOD. We do not have that seat. Our seat is progressive, but limited sharing in His Spirit. It is limited by the fact of His Superiority over "all things." We are "created" which puts US in and under 'subjection' to Him Who Is Greater.

We are always suppose to increase in the knowledge of God in wisdom and spiritual understanding, be not ignorant of his will and anything we not be perfect minded, God shall bring our attention to that.

I agree. The very fact that we need our attentions drawn shows us what? Our lack.

I think my point was saying things with no scripture or talking about God with catch religious phrases. , not to get into time and what people consider space above. It's not that I don't agree with what you have told me.

Mike.

Great. I think I'm only discussing the obvious that any believer can come into understanding of as it pertains to God and not equaling Him to any "thing" in creation or trying to make God a "subject" or "lesser" of any thing. It would generally be proposed in the realm as Divine Undefinable Sovereignty i.e. An Eternal Mystery.

 

[Free]

I've already answered that question free. IN Gods Own Hands is VERY GOOD.

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made

Do you see God letting loose of Himself in that? I don't.

Okay. You think that God believes sin and sinners are good. So just what is it that he is going to punish them for?

So, I asked YOU a question. IF God made disobedience, BOUND everyone to disobedience, and USES disobedience to show His Mercy, IS THAT GOOD?

You should be able to answer. Yes, of course.

If only it were so simple.

But the logic does not follow that "disobedience" itself IS GOOD.

According to your position it logically follows that disobedience is good--disobedience is sin and God said sin is good.

Everyone.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

So I would be right in understanding that you believe in Universalism, correct?

And don't try to drag God Himself in Christ into that picture either, because it won't and can't apply to God.

Why would you even think that I might think it applies to God?

This christian fantasy that the "knowledge of evil" in the Garden, which GOD MADE, is good is patently false. As is the equal fantasy that the deceiver, the tempter, the law twister was "good."

It is from Paul that we see the facts about "how" Adam was made. 1 Cor. 15:42-46. Not from Christian fantasy tales about everything being 'very good' APART from Gods Own Hands in the making of "very good." God HAS TO BLANKET that statement with HIS OWN WORK in mind.

I really don't understand what you're saying here.

 

[smaller]

Okay. You think that God believes sin and sinners are good. So just what is it that he is going to punish them for?

I never said that whatsoever. I'd see the exact opposite.

How willing are you to spread the status of "good" around to other things, apart from God? From my vantage point, there is "no thing, nothing" apart from Gods Hands:

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

According to your position it logically follows that disobedience is good--disobedience is sin and God said sin is good.

I would only say this. That some believers can NOT SEE that God, by His Overwhelming Power and Superiority above "all things" Is Able to use evil for good. Just as scripture shows us.

Genesis 50:20
But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

So I would be right in understanding that you believe in Universalism, correct?

Universal what? I believe the wicked will be "universally destroyed" in the LoF if this is what you are asking. Just tossing some blanket statement out without definitions is worthless. We all hold to various forms of "universal understandings."

I DO hold to the fact that SOME receive Gods Mercy, as He Solely Chooses, and that some not only don't, but are the ADVERSARIES that God Himself made, that are purposefully AGAINST His Mercy.

Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

And I equally believe neither of the above, recipient or non recipient has much to say about the matters, apart from God.

 

[Free]

I never said that whatsoever. I'd see the exact opposite.

How willing are you to spread the status of "good" around to other things, apart from God? From my vantage point, there is "no thing, nothing" apart from Gods Hands:

I'm very willing to say that when things were first created, before man sinned, everything was good.

Gen 1:4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:12 The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed according to their own kinds, and trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

(All ESV)

Everything God created was very good. You believe that God created man a sinner. It follows then that it is good to be a sinner, that sin is good.

Mark 18:10
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Are you saying that Jesus wasn't good?

Universal what? I believe the wicked will be "universally destroyed" in the LoF if this is what you are asking. Just tossing some blanket statement out without definitions is worthless. We all hold to various forms of "universal understandings."

In the Christian context, Universalism is the belief that everyone will eventually be saved. It is not 'some blanket statement...without definition'.

Your belief that 'the wicked will be "universally destroyed" in the LoF,' shows that your understanding of Rom. 11:32 is deficient.

I DO hold to the fact that SOME receive Gods Mercy, as He Solely Chooses, and that some not only don't, but are the ADVERSARIES that God Himself made, that are purposefully AGAINST His Mercy.

Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

This contradicts your understanding of Rom. 11:32.

 

[smaller]

I'm very willing to say that when things were first created, before man sinned, everything was good.

And I'm unwilling to see "any thing" in creation apart from Gods Own Workings in creating all things. And that there is "nothing" apart from His Superior Domain over said all things.

(All ESV)

Everything God created was very good. You believe that God created man a sinner. It follows then that it is good to be a sinner, that sin is good.

And you quite purposefully bypassed describing how the serpent, the tempter, the deceiver was 'very good' and how the knowledge of 'evil' was "very good" and how a sentence of death was 'very good' and how lusts were "very good" and how understanding not was "very good" and a host of other observations of the "not very good" kind are available to SEE.

Genesis 2:18
And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Are you saying "NOT GOOD" was very good too free?

It is pointless to see anything in the Garden as "very good" apart from Gods Own Hands upon all the matters, and that no particular thing existed apart from Him to start with, as The Creator of "all things."

Are you saying that Jesus wasn't good?

Did you hear me say Jesus wasn't/isn't God?

In the Christian context, Universalism is the belief that everyone will eventually be saved. It is not 'some blanket statement...without definition'.

Well, that's what you say it is now. But why you bother to bring up the topic when it's purposefully denied conversations here only speaks to possible baiting on your part. You should know better than to bait.

There is no question to me whatsoever about the fact of Romans 11:32 applying to Adam or everyone being bound, BY GOD, to disobedience. And YES, disobedience WAS in the Garden. Put there, made and created by God Himself.

Very good you say? Perhaps, when the exercises of Gods Work are finished, more than "very good."

 

[Free]

And I'm unwilling to see "any thing" in creation apart from Gods Own Workings in creating all things. And that there is "nothing" apart from His Superior Domain over said all things.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

And you quite purposefully bypassed describing how the serpent, the tempter, the deceiver was 'very good' and how the knowledge of 'evil' was "very good" and how a sentence of death was 'very good' and how lusts were "very good" and how understanding not was "very good" and a host of other observations of the "not very good" kind are available to SEE.

I have done no such thing. You seem to have little idea as to what context is and why it is important. You take me out of context just as you do Scripture.

Notice that I has said: "I'm very willing to say that when things were first created, before man sinned, everything was good." That is very clearly and plainly what the Bible states; it is without question.

Genesis 2:18
And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Are you saying "NOT GOOD" was very good too free?

Again, context. Genesis 2:18 is describing in more detail what happened in Gen. 1:27-28. Your only other choice is to argue that God created a male and a female in Gen. 1:27-28 and told them to "be fruitful and multiply," and then either decided to create another female in Gen 2:18 because the first had left, or created another man in Gen. 2:7 and then another woman for him in Gen. 2:18.

It is pointless to see anything in the Garden as "very good" apart from Gods Own Hands upon all the matters, and that no particular thing existed apart from Him to start with, as The Creator of "all things."

Which, according to your position, includes sin.

Did you hear me say Jesus wasn't/isn't God?

I didn't hear you say anything, that's why I asked the question.

In the Christian context, Universalism is the belief that everyone will eventually be saved. It is not 'some blanket statement...without definition'.

Well, that's what you say it is now. But why you bother to bring up the topic when it's purposefully denied conversations here only speaks to possible baiting on your part. You should know better than to bait.

There is no question to me whatsoever about the fact of Romans 11:32 applying to Adam or everyone being bound, BY GOD, to disobedience.

In the Christian context, "universalism" is a specific term. I assumed you would know that.

The reason I bring it up isn't to bait, it's to show you the significant problem with your use of Rom. 11:32. Just as you have done in the past with other verses, you are making a verse say something it doesn't by ignoring half of the verse. Let's look at it:

Rom 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. (ESV)

You stated that "everyone" has been bound to disobedience, and I quote:

"Everyone.

Romans 11:
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

And you first used that verse to argue that God created Adam and Eve as sinners. But notice that you only see the first half of the verse, completely ignoring the second half--"so that he may have mercy on them all." One doesn't need to study the Greek behind this verse but if one so chooses, they would see that the same word for "all" is used for both those whom "God has bound...over to disobedience" and those on whom "he may have mercy".

So you simply cannot argue that Rom. 11:32 states God has bound absolutely every single person over to disobedience, including Adam, and then also argue that God will only have mercy on some. If Paul is here stating that God has bound absolutely every single person, including Adam and Eve, to disobedience, then it follows that God will have mercy on absolutely every single person that has ever existed.

But you have also stated:

"I DO hold to the fact that SOME receive Gods Mercy, as He Solely Chooses, and that some not only don't, but are the ADVERSARIES that God Himself made, that are purposefully AGAINST His Mercy.

Romans 9:18
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth."

You have pit Paul against himself and your position suffers an incredible contradiction. All because you not only erroneously split Rom. 11:32 in two, you completely ignore the greater context. That is continuously your greatest error--ignoring context.

 

[Northman]

Was or was Adam not created with a capacity to disobey? Was it not revealed in the time of testing?