Is God...sexist?

[Free]

A good and wise book (the Bible?), written by a good and wise author (God?), would not require such lengthy explanations and excuses as provided in books like Copan's.

It should be clear, unambiguous.

Quite the assumption to make, not to mention you seem to read lengthy explanations and excuses as to why the Bible is not true. Remember, these books were written thousands of years ago in languages that no longer exist, for a specific people group (in the OT), for specific reasons, within specific cultural, historical, and theological contexts that must be taken into account. So far, your arguments have completely avoided these, which is why I recommended the book.

 

[Mungo]

This is what my Bible reads,
Genesis 25:6 NET
But while he was still alive, Abraham gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and sent him off to the east, away from his son Isaac.

This passage is referring to Hagar, Sarah’s handmaid.

However, in 1Chronicles 1:32 it reads,

The sons to whom Katurah, Abrahams concubine, gave birth:

We see here that Katurah is referred to as a concubine while in Genesis 25:1 Katurah is called Abrahams wife.

The reason for both is to show Isaacs place in accordance with Gods promise.

“For in Issac shall seed be called to thee”. Genesis 21:12 , Romans 9:7

As you said earlier, a concubine receives no inheritance because the promise comes through Isaac.

Now, there is speculation that Katurah may have indeed been Hagar which may be why Katurah is called Abrahams Wife in one portion of scripture and a concubine in another because Hagar was a concubine.

My understanding is that a concubine was a wife of inferior status.

 

[D-D-W]

My understanding is that a concubine was a wife of inferior status.

Usually a slave wife.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Quite the assumption to make, not to mention you seem to read lengthy explanations and excuses as to why the Bible is not true.

No, I rarely do. I write them, yes. I have read Spinoza's Theological-Political Treatise (often seen as the first work of biblical criticism), and some other older works like David Hume's Natural Religion, but I rarely read such modern books.

Remember, these books were written thousands of years ago in languages that no longer exist, for a specific people group (in the OT), for specific reasons, within specific cultural, historical, and theological contexts that must be taken into account. So far, your arguments have completely avoided these, which is why I recommended the book.

I thought the gospel was "cross-cultural." Or at least that's a common catchphrase. Does culture excuse a nation's laws? Here is my point: If there truly exists the biblical God, he should transcend the brutal cultures of his time, rather than conforming to their contexts. Here are a few comments on some of Copan's words.

Copan happily cites Hammurabi Code (which I have read fully): "Hammurabi called for the death penalty to those helping runaway slaves." He cites §16. And he condemns this, rightly, but does not excuse it on the basis of culture.

Copan says of the Hammurabi Code:

Not only do we find morally inferior cuneiform legislation, but its attendant harsh, ruthless punishments. Commenting on the brutal and harsh Code of Hammurabi, historian Paul Johnson observes: 'These dreadful laws are notable for the ferocity of their physical punishments, in contrast to the restraint of the Mosaic Code and the enactments of Deuteronomy and Leviticus.'

But Hittite law says, "But now they shall substitute one sheep for the man", in the case of appropriating another man's farmland, which formerly deserved death; here we have humanizing improvements; Copan cleanly ignores the replacement of many executions in Hittite law with fines or offerings.

Copan does not condemn stoning (many places, e.g. Leviticus 20:27), burning (e.g., Leviticus 21:9, "And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire"), and killing children for the "crime" of being born Canaanite.

Copan also says,

Babylon and Assyria (as well as Sumer) practiced the River Ordeal: when criminal evidence was inconclusive, the accused would be thrown into the river; if he drowned, he was guilty (the river god's judgment), but if he survived, he was innocent and the accuser was guilty of false accusation.

Yes they did, but he ignores Numbers 5:16-22, which I cited above; even the commentator Phillip Budd, a conservative, describes it as a "trial by ordeal." And that is exactly what it is. Israelite law is no different. Should not God transcend these brutal standards?

My understanding is that a concubine was a wife of inferior status.

Yes, and based on that passage in Genesis, it appears to be a wife of inferior status whose children also get no inheritance.

Usually a slave wife.

Yes, agreed.

 

[T. E. Smith]

I really dislike questions of this type as they tend to put us in the position of having to judge God. I find that arrogant and backwards.

In this question about God being "sexist," that is an entirely HUMAN (fallen human) perspective. We did not create male and female; HE did. And HE only knows why, and how our idea of "egalitarianism" may conflict with His design parameters.

I believe in questioning/judging all authority.

• "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
• "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." - Benjamin Franklin
• "Think for yourself. Question authority." - Timothy Leary

On the other hand, "If you want to know who controls you, look at who you are not allowed to criticize" (Voltaire). I permit myself to criticize God.

Not questioning/judging authority allows tyrants to stand unopposed, which is something we rightly condemn in every being except, God. I am urging consistence.

 

[stovebolts]

My understanding is that a concubine was a wife of inferior status.

Without ketubah

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/465168/jewish/The-Jewish-Marriage-Contract-Ketubah.htm

 

[stovebolts]

Usually a slave wife.

Not necessarily

 

[stovebolts]

Yes, and based on that passage in Genesis, it appears to be a wife of inferior status whose children also get no inheritance.

Yet Abraham gives each of their children gifts before he dies. Just because there was no legal obligation does no mean he didn’t feel the need to give.
Abraham has always been known for his hospitality.

 

[jasonc]

Ah the old question all traditional thinking .

I remember that logic .with PTSD you will find all that is said by the left Usually meaningless. With atheism ,rationalism as PTSD is often a sense of purposeless existence with depression .you can be everything the world wants and sense it's empty .drugs won't fix it .

I post this because I have read up on veterans who died long before I was born .nothing on them exists that I can find .no relative visits ,if lucky some veteran supporter might lay a wreath but his service is totally unknownable .
Records can be lost.in my case my service time ,along with the vets of nam and iraq thrown away when we left .this eats at vets and drive us to rebel or suicide .

I know what good or bad I do ,most won't know or remember it within 30 or more years after I die as those who know me will also have died

But not so with the cross.

 

[jasonc]

https://jasoncran.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F683279586980675584

 

[LovethroughDove]

God is definitely not sexist. He attaches wisdom to "her/she".

Matthew 11:19
Luke 7:35
Proverbs 4:6-7

just some examples

It states that (Wisdom) is supreme, so I'd say he puts females in highest regard.

 

[jasonc]

https://jasoncran.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F683279586980675584

All he did was clean where what is now jax nas in Jacksonville,fl .I wanted his story as I sensed based upon his service in WW1 he was a black soldier and I verified his race locally from a museum and found his unit from a researcher .nothing else could be found easily .

There's more to the service then said in records .my dd214 lists I served in Afghanistan but not where ,what I did or my platoon

 

[T. E. Smith]

God is definitely not sexist. He attaches wisdom to "her/she".

Matthew 11:19
Luke 7:35
Proverbs 4:6-7

just some examples

It states that (Wisdom) is supreme, so I'd say he puts females in highest regard.

In Hebrew the word for wisdom is female, and I think this is also true for Greek. That is why it is female. The book of Proverbs is actually quite sexist, since the sections about marrying wisdom (metaphorically) are for men only.
Now I am convinced that if there is a God, God must be male, since only a man could screw up the world so badly, and a woman would not.

 

[jasonc]

In Hebrew the word for wisdom is female, and I think this is also true for Greek. That is why it is female. The book of Proverbs is actually quite sexist, since the sections about marrying wisdom (metaphorically) are for men only.
Now I am convinced that if there is a God, God must be male, since only a man could screw up the world so badly, and a woman would not.

God is neither male ,in jewry it's known to be an anthropic .God has arms and legs .?
So What authority do you have that makes you all knowing ,all powerful and all present and immortal and able to be all that you can be never judged.

What stands today will be rejected tommorow.live long enough you will see it . especially with entertainment and fashion .

There's a point once it was foreign to me ,but since I lost my dad and my wife nears 65 . I get why the elders say ,this world is full of evil and im not afraid of death .I have no one I know ,the world isn't a place I know

My great aunt died a few years at 98 saying that and died a saint .

You quote Dawkins who have my dad , Grandparents ,aunt ,sister euthanized .he said hitlers idea of purging wasn't all that bad.

Hmm so we eliminate the poor,the sick . minorities would fit that mostly .interesting to judge God .

 

[jasonc]

Often dementia runs in families as does epsilepsy and mental retardation.

My aunt and sister are mentally challenged.my aunt is high functioning.but my sister isn't ,yet I see more about life from them then any celebrity,philosopher can tell me

 

[T. E. Smith]

God is neither male ,in jewry it's known to be an anthropic .God has arms and legs .?
So What authority do you have that makes you all knowing ,all powerful and all present and immortal and able to be all that you can be never judged.

What stands today will be rejected tommorow.live long enough you will see it . especially with entertainment and fashion .

There's a point once it was foreign to me ,but since I lost my dad and my wife nears 65 . I get why the elders say ,this world is full of evil and im not afraid of death .I have no one I know ,the world isn't a place I know

My great aunt died a few years at 98 saying that and died a saint .

You quote Dawkins who have my dad , Grandparents ,aunt ,sister euthanized .he said hitlers idea of purging wasn't all that bad.

Hmm so we eliminate the poor,the sick . minorities would fit that mostly .interesting to judge God .

First, I have never claimed any of those divine attributes and I don't know why you think I have. Second, I do not like Dawkins and my only two references of him were not favorable. I mentioned him in the first place because he is what most people think of when they think of a person focused mostly on attacking the Bible.

 

[jasonc]

First, I have never claimed any of those divine attributes and I don't know why you think I have. Second, I do not like Dawkins and my only two references of him were not favorable. I mentioned him in the first place because he is what most people think of when they think of a person focused mostly on attacking the Bible.

You are defending that God is sexist.if you are Going to call God out in that ,you might want to avoid

In Hebrew the word for wisdom is female, and I think this is also true for Greek. That is why it is female. The book of Proverbs is actually quite sexist, since the sections about marrying wisdom (metaphorically) are for men only.
Now I am convinced that if there is a God, God must be male, since only a man could screw up the world so badly, and a woman would not.

 

[jasonc]

God was wrong for allowing Adam and eve the choice to sin ?

 

[T. E. Smith]

You are defending that God is sexist.if you are Going to call God out in that ,you might want to avoid

My comment about God being a man, was a joke. Not a very good one, maybe.
I am by most standards male myself.

God was wrong for allowing Adam and eve the choice to sin ?

If you gave a child a knife, are you responsible when they stab themselves. God gave Adam and Eve the freedom to ruin the world, so that is his responsibility.

 

[jasonc]

My comment about God being a man, was a joke. Not a very good one, maybe.
I am by most standards male myself.

If you gave a child a knife, are you responsible when they stab themselves. God gave Adam and Eve the freedom to ruin the world, so that is his responsibility.

He allowed it. Then your logic is that God should have never let us have freewill .

Our love would be robotic .I'm close to reformed . There are questions that you will never answer or get .

I accept the answer I have in the Bible on things .it's not meant for me to understand.

My life is daily battle of wanting to die versus there is reason for me .

It's there I sense God more .