Is Hell Permanent or Temporary?

[Bick]

SEEMS TO ME, ONE KEY ELEMENT IS, WHY DID THE 'TRANSLATORS' CHOOSE "EVERLASTING" OR "ETERNAL" FOR WORDS THAT SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLATED THAT.

"OLAM" (A NOUN) IN THE HEBREW, SHOULD BEST BE RENDERED "AGE"; AND "AION" (NOUN) AND ITS ADJECTIVE, "AIONIOS" IN THE GREEK, SHOULD BEST BE RENDERED "AGE" AND "AGE-LASTING" (OR "AGE-DURING). SEE YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION, ROTHERHAM'S EMPHASIZED BIBLE, OR WILSON'S EMPHATIC DIAGLOTT.

LOOK AT THE PLACES WHERE "EVERLASTING" IS APPLIED TO WHAT IS CLEARLY NOT "EVERLASTING".

GEN. 49:26, "...THE EVERLASTING HILLS.." RSV.
DEUT. 33:15 "
HAB. 3:6 "...THE EVERLASTING HILLS WERE SCATTERED..."

CONTRAST WITH:
ISA 40:4, "..EVERY MOUNTAIN AND HILL WILL BE MADE LOW.."
54:10 "..FOR THE MOUNTAINS SHALL DEPART AND THE HILLS BE REMOVED.."
AMOS 9:13 "..AND ALL THE HILLS SHALL MELT.."
2 PET. 3:10 "..THE EARTH AND THE WORKS THAT ARE THEREIN SHALL BE BURNED UP."
REV. 20:1 "..THE FIRST HEAVEN AND THE FIRST EARTH ARE PASSED AWAY.."

OBVIOUSLY, THE MOUNTAINS AND HILLS ARE NOT "EVERLASTING."

AND OTHER EXAMPLES:
PSA. 24:7, 9 SPEAK OF "EVERLASTING" GATES AND DOORS (OF JERUSALEM, NO DOUBT).
NOTE: THE JERUSALEM OF DAVID, WITH ITS GATES WAS DESTROYED CENTURIES AGO.

EXOD. 40:15 AND OTHERS, SPEAK OF THE AARONIC PRIESTHOOD AS BEING "EVERLASTING."
NOTE: THAT PRIESTHOOD ENDED WITH THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF CHRIST: HE IS OUR HEAVENLY HIGH PRIEST AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.

GEN. 17:13 TELLS OF GOD'S PROMISE THAT THE LAND OF CANAAN WOULD BE AN "EVERLASTING" POSSESSION TO ABRAHAM AND HIS OFFSPRINGS.
NOTE: IT IS TRUE THAT IN MESSIANIC KINGDOM FOR THE MILLENNIUM, ABRAHAM AND ALL SAVED ISRAELITES WILL INHEIRIT THE LAND AS AN AGE-LASTING POSSESSION----NOT "EVERLASTING." FOR THIS EARTH AND HEAVEN WILL BE DESTROYED AND REPLACED BY A NEW EARTH AND HEAVEN. THE NEW EARTH WILL BE GLORIOUSLY DIFFERENT, EVEN WITH NO SEAS.

EVEN IN VERSES SIMILAR TO PSA. 103:17: "THE LORD IS FROM EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING", ONE MIGHT ARGUE THAT THIS IS SPEAKING OF THE CHARACTER OF GOD....YET, IF "EVERLASTING" MEANS "WITHOUT BEGINNING OR END," REASON SHOULD TELL US YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE "EVERLASTING TIME" BEHIND ANOTHER "EVERLASTING TIME."
AND, INDEED, THE HEBREW IS FROM "OLAM" TO "OLAM"; IN ESSENCE, THE LORD IS THE LORD FROM "AGE TO AGE."
THE VERY ATTRIBUTES OF "GOD" INCLUDE MANY ADJECTIVES: INFINITE, ALL POWRFUL, ALL KNOWING, UBIQUITOUS, ALL LOVING, ALL GRACIOUS...ETC. SO, IN THE WRITTEN WORD, WE HAVE ANOTHER REVELATION OF GOD'S CHARACTER, IF YOU WILL: HE IS THE AGE-ABIDING GOD, HE IS OUR ROCK OF AGES.

IN THE GREEK MANUSCRIPTS, "AION" AND "AIONIOS" OCCUR MANY TIMES. ONE CAN LOCATE THEM BY THE USE OF A COMPLETE CONCORDANCE, OR IN A GREEK-ENGLISH INTERLINEAR NEW TESTAMENT.

EACH MUST ARRIVE AT HIS OWN CONCLUSION.
PERSONALLY, THE MAGNIFICENCE OF GOD'S INFINITE LOVE AND GRACE, AND HIS HOLY RIGHTEOUS JUDGING OF ALL, HAS BEEN MANIFESTED TO ME IN THE UNDERSTANDING OF GOD'S PLAN AND PURPOSE FOR THE AGES.

 

[Ahuli]

I can't believe I'm even asking the question, but it came up in another thread intended to be a prayer need. I didn't feel it would be appropriate to discuss this differing theology in a thread in which someone new to the faith was asking for advice. We both agreed to take this discussion elsewhere.
mjjcb

The results of hell are permanent/eternal. God will make an end to sin. Keeping hell fires burning forever, makes that a lie.

Hell, as it is taught and preached in many denominations, is derived from pagan beliefs. Greek, etc.

The origins of this belief is easily researched on the web.

He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Matthew 3:12; Luke 3:17; see also Mark 9:44);

The following looks like it supports the popular view of hell. However, on study, you will see that it simply means your local fire department cannot put that fire out. It will burn until it has done its job.

Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire . . . these will go away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41, 46).



Hebrews 10:27: Fiery indignation will devour the adversaries.

Philippians 3:19: Their end is destruction.

John 3:16: "Whoever believes in Him should not perish," implying that unbelievers will perish.

Ezekiel 18:4: The soul who sins shall die.

Malachi 4:1-3: The wicked shall be burned up, leaving neither root nor branch - only ashes under foot.

Psalm 1:4: The wicked are blown away like chaff.

Proverbs 10:25: The wicked are no more.

Psalm 37:22, 28, 34, 38: The wicked shall be cut off.

Psalm 37:20: "The wicked shall perish . . . into smoke they shall vanish away."

Psalm 37:36: The wicked cannot be found.

And so on!

The death of the wicked does not please God. (Ezekiel 18:32). How much less would He be pleased to give them everlasting life in hell? God is "longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

The wicked will perish, not have everlasting life in hell. See John 3:16

He would have to create special bodies for the wicked, which don't burn up.

 

[poohbah]

IS NOT CHRIST THE LAMB OF GOD WHO HAS TAKEN AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD (JN. 1:29)?

Yes, all sin is paid for :yes

But, people don't wind up in Hell for their sin, they are not there to pay for sin, they are there because they have not believed and obeyed the Gospel. It is a holding place until the Judgement that will prove them guilty before God, not for sin but unbelief.

 

[Hawkins]

God knows you. If He decided not to save you in your life time here on earth, you are quite done. A temporary hell is never needed.

If you are the Sherpherd's sheep, you will recognise His voice and turn to Him when called. If you hear His call but without an acknowledgement. You are not His sheep.

 

[Bick]

IS NOT CHRIST THE LAMB OF GOD WHO HAS TAKEN AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD (JN. 1:29)?

Yes, all sin is paid for :yes

But, people don't wind up in Hell for their sin, they are not there to pay for sin, they are there because they have not believed and obeyed the Gospel. It is a holding place until the Judgement that will prove them guilty before God, not for sin but unbelief.

MY COMMENTS: Hi Poobah. It is true, the word "hell" is found in most English Bibles, because that is the view of the compiler/translators. But, the words in the original languages can not mean the traditional view of "hell". That it is place of fire and brimstone somewhere in the center of the earth, where the souls of the wicked are being tormented.

In the OT, the Hebrew word is "Sheol," which literally means THE IMPERCEPTIBLE, THE UNSEEN. It is used in Scripture, not merely of the realm of the dead, but of all that cannot be perceived by the human senses. From its usage, "THE GRAVE" is the word most often used by the translators.
To choose "hell" as the proper word in English just doesn't make sense.

The Greek equivalent to "Sheol" is "Hades", which also means "THE UNSEEN", and should be rendered that or, "THE GRAVE", depending on the context.

In the Gospels, Jesus warned his disciples and the multitude about the judgment of Gehenna fire.
Gehenna is the vale of Hinnom, near Jerusalem, which was use as an incinerator of the city refuse. It was kept burning to help purify the air and to destroy the refuse and perhaps dead bodies thrown in it.
Whatever was not burned up, the maggots (worms) would eat.
Gehenna was there during Jesus earthly ministry and some years later, no doubt, till Jeursalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. It will be there during the coming Kingdom on earth.

If one studies these verses, one will see that this Gehenna (hell--AV) was on earth to where living humans could be sentenced by the Sanhedren (the highest governing body of Israel). The criminals would be stoned to death and their bodies thrown into Gehenna...thus, having no decent burial.
See Matt. 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15; 23:33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; and Luke 12:5.

"HADES" should be rendered "THE GRAVE" or "THE UNSEEN" depending on the context.
See Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; and Rev. 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14.

One other word is rendered "hell" in most English Versions. It is "TARTAROO", a verb meaning to "Cast down into Tartarus." This is a place of gloomy darkness where the angels that sinned are kept in chains, until being brought out to be judged.
There is nothing about it that resembles a place of fire and brimstone.

Indeed, Christ died to take away the sins of the world. While we see sin still in the world, it is obvious that because of the cross, sin will be repudiated, done away with, in God's time at the consummation of the ages.
"But, now, once for all, upon a conjunction of the ages, for a setting aside of sin, through means of his sacrifice, has he been manifested." Heb. 9:26 Rotherham N.T.

IMO, according to the Scriptures, in death, the grave, there is no knowledge, no remembrance, no praise. The cure for death is resurrection.

"Psa. 6:5 "For in death there is no remembrance of thee; in Sheol who can give you praise."
"Psa. 30:9 "What profit will there be in my blood when I go dwon to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? Shall it declare the truth?"
"Psa. 88:10-12 "Will thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?
See also Psa. 115:17; Ecc. 9:5; Isa. 38:18.

Even though the sin question is settled, we know that all must give account for their deeds:

Matt. 12:36 "..every idle word...they shall give account on the day of judgment."
Rom. 14:2 "So then, every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
Ecc. 12:14 "For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or whether evil."

The body of Christ will be judged in the heavenlies before the judgment seat (bema) of Christ to give account of the deeds done in our bodies (Rom. 14:10, 12 and 2 Cor. 5:10).

Blessings, Bick

 

[poohbah]

God knows you. If He decided not to save you in your life time here on earth, you are quite done. A temporary hell is never needed.

If you are the Sherpherd's sheep, you will recognise His voice and turn to Him when called. If you hear His call but without an acknowledgement. You are not His sheep.

If God decided to save you? you verging on calvinism here?

 

[JudaicChristian]

We only have 2 choices....life or death....You will either live forever or you will be dead forever...The soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way...

1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The soul can and will die

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
more.

Some who insist that there is life in Hell begs the question: What part of dead did you not understand? Perhaps they are so busy defending their position that they are not taking the time to listen.

 

[n2thelight]

We only have 2 choices....life or death....You will either live forever or you will be dead forever...The soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way...

1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The soul can and will die

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
more.

Some who insist that there is life in Hell begs the question: What part of dead did you not understand? Perhaps they are so busy defending their position that they are not taking the time to listen.

Amen!!!

 

[n2thelight]

Consider the following verse, in several Bible translations:

"And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11, NIV)

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11, KJV)

"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11, NASB)

"and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11, ASV)

"and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11, YLT)

"And the smoke of their torment goes up to ages of ages, and they have no respite day and night who do homage to the beast and to its image, and if any one receive the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:11, DBY)

"Smoke from their torment will rise age after age. No respite for those who worship the Beast and its image, who take the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:11, Message)

"And the smoke of their torment goes up until the Ages of the Ages; and the worshipers of the Wild Beast and his statue have no rest day or night, nor has any one who receives the mark of his name." (Revelation 14:11, WNT)

Some Christians say that the people in the above verse will be tormented day and night for all eternity ("for ever and ever"), and other Christians say that these people will be tormented day and night for a limited period of time ("for ages and ages"). If this is meant to be a limited period of time, it's still a very long period of time.

REVELATION 14:9-ll

“If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, (10) he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured out full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the lamb (Jesus). (11) And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast or his image, or anyone who receives the mark of his name.â€

As you can see, this passage describes the harsh divine judgment that will befall people who choose to worship the beast and receive his mark during the 7-year tribulation period. I admit that a casual reading of this text gives the impression that these people will suffer eternal conscious torment, but this conclusion does not stand up to a thorough biblical analysis. Let me present four solid reasons why we cannot interpret this passage as a reference to eternal conscious torture:

First of all, although this passage might at first glance give the impression that God will sadistically torment people in his presence forever and ever, it does not say that. All it states is that these rebellious people will be tormented with burning sulfur and that “the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever†– there’s a difference. “Smoke†indicates that they will be burned up and “torment†would refer to the anguish experienced while being burned up. This perfectly coincides with what the Holy Spirit inspired David to write in Psalm 37:20: “But the wicked shall perish… Into smoke they shall vanish away†(NKJV).

The second reason we can’t take Revelation 14:9-11 as a reference to never-ending conscious torment is because this passage has a “sister text†which uses the very same terminology wherein the meaning can’t possibly be mistaken. This sister text is from the Old Testament and is therefore the foundation upon which Revelation 14:9-11 rests. Let’s go ahead and observe this text:

ISAIAH 34:9-10a

Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! (10) It will not be quenched night and day; its smoke will rise forever.

Reading this passage we get the strong impression that the kingdom of Edom will burn forever and ever without end but the entire rest of the chapter renders this interpretation impossible. The rest of the chapter clearly shows that Edom will become a desolate desert inhabited by owls, jackals and hyenas. Verses 5 & 6 state that the people of Edom will be “totally destroyed†and slaughtered, and Obadiah 10 & 18 back this up, stating that Edom will “be destroyed forever†– consumed by the fire of God’s judgment and wrath. Therefore the statement “it will not be quenched night and day; its smoke will rise forever†cannot be taken to mean what it might casually seem.

Observe how Isaiah 34:9-10 and Revelation 14:10-11 use the same terminology:

Her dust (will be turned) into burning sulfur

He will be tormented with burning sulfur

Its smoke will rise forever

The smoke of their torment rises forever

It will not be quenched night and day

There is no rest day or night



This proves that the terminology used in Revelation 14:10-11 cannot refer to eternal conscious torment, because just as the entire rest of Isaiah 34 renders this interpretation impossible for Isaiah 34:9-10a, so the entire rest of the bible renders this interpretation impossible for Revelation 14:10-11.

Please notice that Isaiah 34:10 plainly states that Edom will burn and “not be quenched night and day.†This proves that the phrase “night and day†or “day or night†does not refer to an unending amount of time. The burning sulfur that destroyed Edom was not quenched “night and day†until the entire kingdom was destroyed. Likewise, the wicked people spoken of in Revelation 14:10-11 will have no rest from their torment “day or night†until the burning sulfur totally destroys them. “Burning sulfur†is simply another name for the lake of fire (see Revelation 21:8); so being “tormented with burning sulfur†is a reference to the second death. For further proof, Paul stated that he worked and prayed “night and day†(1Thessalonians 2:9; 3:10), but he did neither non-stop, and both working and praying ceased when he died. Acts 9:24 and Revelation 12:10 give additional support that this phrase refers to a temporary period of time.

http://www.hell-know.net/#e

The above link is a good study on the subject

 

[JudaicChristian]

OneLove: I see that you have spent a lot of time studying. :yes

 

[n2thelight]

OneLove: I see that you have spent a lot of time studying. :yes

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I try.....

 

[Mysteryman]

We only have 2 choices....life or death....You will either live forever or you will be dead forever...The soul is not automatically immortal,it must become that way...

1 Corinthians 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The soul can and will die

Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
more.

Some who insist that there is life in Hell begs the question: What part of dead did you not understand? Perhaps they are so busy defending their position that they are not taking the time to listen.

Amen!!!

Show me the word "dead"in the Word of God, pertaining to eternal damnation

 

[JudaicChristian]

Show me the word "dead"in the Word of God, pertaining to eternal damnation

Obviously the word "dead" is past tense to a judgement yet to come.

 

[Mysteryman]

Show me the word "dead"in the Word of God, pertaining to eternal damnation

Obviously the word "dead" is past tense to a judgement yet to come.

Say what ? What biblical reference do you come up with to justify this comment ?

Do you not know, that God is a God of life, not death ?

 

[JudaicChristian]

Do you not know, that God is a God of life, not death ?

You mean He is the God of the LIVING, not the dead.

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?†(Elohiym means, “God of The Living.â€) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living†or “god-s of life;†for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.†(HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.â€

 

[Mysteryman]

Do you not know, that God is a God of life, not death ?

You mean He is the God of the LIVING, not the dead.

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?†(Elohiym means, “God of The Living.â€) It can also be translated as “god-s of the living†or “god-s of life;†for those who have life immortal.
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.†(HaYah) in the ancient Semitic language means: The Living, or The Life.)
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.â€

Death is an enemy of God. God is a God of all life.

John 5:26 - "For as the Father hath life in himself"

Daniel 12:2 - "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt"