Is Islam the rod of God?

[Elysian]

Shalom,

God used Assyria to punish Israel. Is he using Islam to punish idolators, including Jews and Christians; for they too have replaced worship of God with the worship of modern day idols like wealth, success etc.

Thanks,
Elysian

 

[jasoncran]

Shalom,

God used Assyria to punish Israel. Is he using Islam to punish idolators, including Jews and Christians; for they too have replaced worship of God with the worship of modern day idols like wealth, success etc.

Thanks,
Elysian

huh? what about(for the hebrew) germany, christianity(so called) and also the romans.

and delineate a jew?

there are three types of a jew and we need to establish which jew in particular.

and btw jews dont have any acess to god as they did and still do reject him..

 

[Timf]

Is Islam the rod of God?

God allowed Job to be afflicted even though Job didn't do anything worthy of punishment.

Joseph told his brothers, "You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good".

Some might think that the death of Job's first children was unfair to the children. This is because our idea of "fair" in not the same as God's idea of what is right.

We think having and enjoying life is the most important thing. God knows that where we spend eternity is more important. If God loves us, one could ask why He leaves us on this earth after we become Christian. It would be more kind to take us to be with Him. He has work here for us and this is why we continue to live here on earth.

Satan has been allowed to rule the earth (for a time and insofar as he is allowed by God). Satan likes to play "both sides of the street". I think you would find that when the anti-Christ comes along, both Arabs and Jews will be drawn to see him as their Savior (for a while).

It is not for us to know the mind of God, but we can know Satan's schemes. The closer we walk with God and the more we cry out to Him for wisdom and discernment, the more clear the machinations of Satan become.

 

[Adullam]

Shalom,

God used Assyria to punish Israel. Is he using Islam to punish idolators, including Jews and Christians; for they too have replaced worship of God with the worship of modern day idols like wealth, success etc.

Thanks,
Elysian

Exactly! The Muslims are there to counteract carnality by re-imposing the law to it's strictest interpretation.

Islam sees Christians bringing booze and pornography, filthy language...and all kinds of worldliness. They react to these things as fundamentalists do....but with an old testament indignation..and AK 47's of course.

 

[jesus4life]

TO ALL,

All three of the books are the rod of GOD!! Torah, Bible, and Quran.

Realize that Sin is sin. Dont do the devil's work for him by labeling. That's his department.

If you are a believer, you follow. Some are weak and need more edification, but GOD knows their heart, and that's what HE looks at. Not so much the actions, or Peter would be out of here!! He denied Christ MANY TIMES ( not just 3 times)!!

Whether Jew, Muslim, believer ( Christian), and honestly, I have been around all three ( in the USA and in their countries of origin), please know that there are believers and " Pharisees" in each genre. The Pharisees are the dangerous ones, because they work in high positions teaching division and mayhem and calling themselves the label of that belief. Ive seen, still seen, and easily notice their tricks by the characteristics that JESUS said they live out.

Pharisees character:
JOHN 12:42
42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

Pharisees positions on this earth and more of their characteristics that are SPIRITUALLY and PHYSICALLY important to watch for:

LUKE 11:37-52
37 When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. 38 But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal.

39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
43 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces.
44 “Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which people walk over without knowing it.”
45 One of the experts in the law answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.”
46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all. 52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”


Many sin in the open and others not. GOD has blessed me with a job where I get to travel every month now for almost 20 years. Traveling this much, you get to see people when the " traditions", cordiality, and tourists manners are down. Humans are humans in these classes; 1. those chasing righteousness. 2. those chasing evil. 3. those " lost", confused, taught wrong. 4. examples GOD made ( these are rare). There is no doctrine that will put a human in more focus out of the three. It all depends on the heart and what GOD wants of that person. King David was a sex maniac, Moses was slow and didnt listen, Job did sin ( as he was egotistical), and was corrected by Elihu and GOD came down in a whirlwind and confirmed Elihu ( JOB chapters 41 and 42:1-6). The disciples were constantly questioning and doubting; accept John ( he did it once, and that was it).

So, all this proves the sin nature is there; OLD TESTAMENT or NEW TESTAMENT! THis is a law of GOD. The " jews " as people call them ( which only means believers), follow the OT ( mosaic laws ( leviticus) and 10 commandments). JESUS obeyed all those rules and lived to explain them. Muslims believe our full story, and JESUS ( named ISA: the Messiah) in Hebrew MESSEH!!. No man can be the Messiah. But even in this, we must remember that in the BIBLE it's said that no man can speak of JESUS lightly, and they can't be against us. This would be the sheep not of this fold that will be drawn ( as said in JOHN 10). But a believer in CHRIST should easily get along with all of the people in these beliefs that are TRULY following it. Because they all believe in LOVE of GOD.

MARK 9:38-41
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

Remember that those three beliefs believe in the GOD OF ABRAHAM!! Read John 10 over again. Not only are the sheep of this fold, but SHEEP NOT OF THIS FOLD that must be drawn to HIM!!

JOHN 10:14-18
14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”


THE ROD IS THE OT ( which can be read in any of the three books). THE STAFF is the NT for us to hold onto and put it front of us to walk with ( JESUS CHRIST). The FATHER is who created us and HIS WORD made flesh ( JESUS CHRIST/YESHUA/ISA), is the ONE that will divide us according to HIS HEART! BEING THE WORDS of GOD made flesh, HE is already doing that here on earth and has started since the beginning and until the day HE comes again. But, HE warns that GOD is making a record of all our deeds. So, many dont realize that the judgement has been begun. Luckily HE knows how much we understand and what we deal with. So, each is judged individually. GOD is just and fair. Not like us.

jesus4life

 

[jasoncran]

uh, how can the account of the nature of god be different in the tanakh(as intepreted by the jew), the bible and quran?


the jews deny the messiah the christian claim. the muslim deny he died and was the son of god!

there is no god but allah and allah has no son.

hmm

 

[Adullam]

TO ALL,

All three of the books are the rod of GOD!! Torah, Bible, and Quran.

Realize that Sin is sin. Dont do the devil's work for him by labeling. That's his department.

If you are a believer, you follow. Some are weak and need more edification, but GOD knows their heart, and that's what HE looks at. Not so much the actions, or Peter would be out of here!! He denied Christ MANY TIMES ( not just 3 times)!!

Whether Jew, Muslim, believer ( Christian), and honestly, I have been around all three ( in the USA and in their countries of origin), please know that there are believers and " Pharisees" in each genre. The Pharisees are the dangerous ones, because they work in high positions teaching division and mayhem and calling themselves the label of that belief. Ive seen, still seen, and easily notice their tricks by the characteristics that JESUS said they live out.

Pharisees character:
JOHN 12:42
42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

Pharisees positions on this earth and more of their characteristics that are SPIRITUALLY and PHYSICALLY important to watch for:

LUKE 11:37-52
37 When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. 38 But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal.

39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
43 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces.
44 “Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which people walk over without knowing it.”
45 One of the experts in the law answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.”
46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all. 52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”


Many sin in the open and others not. GOD has blessed me with a job where I get to travel every month now for almost 20 years. Traveling this much, you get to see people when the " traditions", cordiality, and tourists manners are down. Humans are humans in these classes; 1. those chasing righteousness. 2. those chasing evil. 3. those " lost", confused, taught wrong. 4. examples GOD made ( these are rare). There is no doctrine that will put a human in more focus out of the three. It all depends on the heart and what GOD wants of that person. King David was a sex maniac, Moses was slow and didnt listen, Job did sin ( as he was egotistical), and was corrected by Elihu and GOD came down in a whirlwind and confirmed Elihu ( JOB chapters 41 and 42:1-6). The disciples were constantly questioning and doubting; accept John ( he did it once, and that was it).

So, all this proves the sin nature is there; OLD TESTAMENT or NEW TESTAMENT! THis is a law of GOD. The " jews " as people call them ( which only means believers), follow the OT ( mosaic laws ( leviticus) and 10 commandments). JESUS obeyed all those rules and lived to explain them. Muslims believe our full story, and JESUS ( named ISA: the Messiah) in Hebrew MESSEH!!. No man can be the Messiah. But even in this, we must remember that in the BIBLE it's said that no man can speak of JESUS lightly, and they can't be against us. This would be the sheep not of this fold that will be drawn ( as said in JOHN 10). But a believer in CHRIST should easily get along with all of the people in these beliefs that are TRULY following it. Because they all believe in LOVE of GOD.

MARK 9:38-41
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.

Remember that those three beliefs believe in the GOD OF ABRAHAM!! Read John 10 over again. Not only are the sheep of this fold, but SHEEP NOT OF THIS FOLD that must be drawn to HIM!!

JOHN 10:14-18
14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”


THE ROD IS THE OT ( which can be read in any of the three books). THE STAFF is the NT for us to hold onto and put it front of us to walk with ( JESUS CHRIST). The FATHER is who created us and HIS WORD made flesh ( JESUS CHRIST/YESHUA/ISA), is the ONE that will divide us according to HIS HEART! BEING THE WORDS of GOD made flesh, HE is already doing that here on earth and has started since the beginning and until the day HE comes again. But, HE warns that GOD is making a record of all our deeds. So, many dont realize that the judgement has been begun. Luckily HE knows how much we understand and what we deal with. So, each is judged individually. GOD is just and fair. Not like us.

jesus4life

Very good statements. The peculiarity of Islam is that it comes AFTER Christianity. This is clearly a sign that Christianity has become very lax indeed in regards to immorality. We are to abstain from immorality.

Notice also that the church in Ephesus no longer exists. Jesus warned that their "candle" would be removed if they didn't repent. So this church has been removed. There is NO church there to this day. Islam is the scourge that has done this.

 

[jesus4life]

uh, how can the account of the nature of god be different in the tanakh(as intepreted by the jew), the bible and quran?


the jews deny the messiah the christian claim. the muslim deny he died and was the son of god!

there is no god but allah and allah has no son.

hmm

Jasoncran,

Grace and peace. Not sure if that quote you made will show up right. I am speed typer, but not very good with computers. I learned to type in high school before computers became popular. Not sure how old you are, but when I was in high school, I think the Commodore 64 was rumored to come out!! LOL!!:nod

So, to your statement,

I wouldnt say that JEWS deny the Christian claim. Remember there are Jews for CHRIST!! Many people forget the power of GOD. HE can change a person at any time. I am patient like JESUS, the prophets, messengers, and disciples. I dont bicker on the here and now. I wait till the judgement day and do as ordered til then. I dont argue with people, I just make sure that I am a living speaking representation of what I believe in CHRIST!! It's that simple.

In my travels, I have seen that many speak but dont live it, and this is so hypcritical. This is a great way to push away " the sheep" of this fold and push away the sheep not of this fold. One must be clean themselves before they can expect any change. I am not sayin you are not, but I have realized that alot of people that preach are not, and thus the results are disastrous.

GOD allowed me to go to Israel more than once, and many tried to convert me ( rabbis and followers). Funny that by the end of the first week I was there, there were rabbis on my shoulder telling me the beauty of JESUS! I did nothing but stay steadfast in love of JESUS, and never argued. Thanks to GOD only for holding me, my spirit, and faith in that time ( and at all times). I Just waited for chances to speak about HIM when they opened the door, not me. HOLY SPIRIT came through hard in their own book. It was amazing.

I was a younger man then, and to see old rabbis stuck in their books like:o was priceless. Not priceless, in a pat on the back sort of a way. But, priceless in a faith way, because GOD says in all three of the books that HE will use the shameful and foolish things of this earth to confound the wise!! AND HE DOES!! I wont say my job, but it's not a job one would expect such wisdom!! LOL!! But, hey, lets look, Jesus ( carpenter), Moses/Musa ( he would be called slow today; not good of speech), King David was ruddy, sex crazy, and wasnt even chosen by HIS father, Paul and Mohammed were murderers before GOD/ALLAH touched them, and the examples go on and on of shameful people GOD will use.
1 CORINTHIANS 1:25-31
27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.â€


Allah in english means KING ( we say GOD in english!!). But, GOD has sooooooo many names. Whether it's semetic, aramaic, arabic, Hebrew, etc... GOD knows HIS holy name, because it's written in peoples' hearts that want HIM!! I know the game many play with the " original language" jargon. But, that game is a really old Pharisee game, when one remembers that in all three of the books we believe in the Tower of Babel story.

GOD, ALLAH, YEHWEH, ABBA, ELOHIM, GOD OF ABRAHAM, etc...gave us all different languages in the Tower to seperate us because of our sinful nature. Those people ( evil and good alike) didnt die, they still multiplied across the world.

It's simple when one thinks, prays, fasts, and meditates on it. That's why people think ( in their language), that they have the answer. This is what GOD intended by doing this. Because the real answer is LOVE, and only GOD knows anything more. LOVE each other is all HE commanded, whether Old Testament, New Testament, Torah, or Quaran. That's the funny part.

Because people can't love one another, they look for more. Not realizing that first loving one another will help them understand the kingdom of heaven. After this there is more to know. But, through all the Mosaic laws, commandments, message of the prophets, etc... people still can't arrive to this basic law of GOD; love.

So, till then, many will just be babbling along in our egoes saying who has it and who doesnt have it and GOD, ALLAH, YEHWEH, etc... will just be looking at many of us like . Not all of us, cuz some of us are at this stage in faith. But many that I have met in all my travels are not.

As far as CHRIST's death. That's actually a funny one. I am what people say is a CHRISTIAN. But, I just call myself a believer in CHRIST! Its almost the same, but a little different. I will say this statement and question, " How can someone kill WORDS made flesh??". LOL! There is a trick behind this. Like many people in the three beliefs, some believe GOD is a GOD of order and clarity. Yet, that is true for HIM!!! But for us, HE is a mystery and is something that is complexed because our sin nature gets in the way; everytime.

So, JESUS knows who HE was, but no one else did. That's why there is no sin to HIM, and even in the Quaran, Muslims are supposed to be waiting for HIM to say who HE is or who HE isnt'. Funny, because Mohammed was after HIM, and supposedly told them who HE ( ISA) was. So, why would JESUS ( ISA) have to come again and say it on judgement day; which is a day for GOD. It takes a spiritual eye to read between the lines on that one.

JESUS is human, but only by default. As in the Quran, HE was spoken into Mary ( Mariam), and spoke in the belly, which makes HIM more powerful than in the Bible.

Allah ( GOD is love), and HE commanded us in the the commandments to never kill. YET, people believed we could kill depending the reason ( i.e. if someone tried to kill you, your family, for GOD, etc...); Except JESUS ( ISA).

ISA ( JESUS), is just the words of GOD made flesh. Know that ALLAH ( GOD), ABBA, etc....speaks and their is manifestation. Let there be light, and there is light, etc... Humans speak and there is only hope of a manifestation through faith in something.

Allah ( GOD) spoke HIS WORDS ( named ISA, JESUS, YESHUA, etc..) into Mary, and this manifestation of HIS WORD became something people see as human. But it's just words manifested into flesh. No one can kill words. But, these words because they werent listened to when read by people, GOD sent them in human form to live it out in front of people. Showing people how they should live to obey HIM.

Mohammed and many others after HIM and before HIM only confirm who GOD and GOD's power is. Along with some of their sinful notions. As no human is perfect. But, JESUS ( ISA) is different. HE truly isnt human, HE is just flesh. There is a a big difference between human and words made flesh. I pray GOD has all understand this. Its truly comforting when GOD allows this level of faith, but this definitely comes through prayer and fasting. But, if not, then this famous statement applies " They that have an ear let them hear". GOD doesnt let us all understand HIM; we know this from all three of the books. Its about the heart that allows us to be closer with HIM! THe heart is where HE gives more information. The heart must love HIM for unity of all and waiting for HIS division. Not trying to make HIS division for HIM!


jesus4life

 

[jesus4life]

Very good statements. The peculiarity of Islam is that it comes AFTER Christianity. This is clearly a sign that Christianity has become very lax indeed in regards to immorality. We are to abstain from immorality.

Notice also that the church in Ephesus no longer exists. Jesus warned that their "candle" would be removed if they didn't repent. So this church has been removed. There is NO church there to this day. Islam is the scourge that has done this.

Adullam,

Grace and peace. I understand how you feel. Yet, you do yourself a disservice to believe that based upon what is out there. Are you gathering it by what you see in your own eyes with Christians? Or by what you see on TV/any other form of media? Answer this, then, I will go on with my answer.

But, I will push that traveling alot, can change alot of assumptions. I will definitley repeat that in all my travels ( and still traveling near every month or every other month to a different country), staying more than a week in each country. Being friends with people from all different beliefs. Humans are the same. Believe in this, just from my experience I can say. Of course, yours can be different, but I ask about the process in which you see your process.

I see it as I said here or some where on this site before:

4 types of humans
1. The ones that know and chase good.
2. The ones that know and chase evil.
3. The ones that are lost and just follow where ever the wind blows ( due to laziness, bad teaching, etc....).
4. the ignorant ( these are rare. The ones that were born with disabilites where they can't comprehend words, etc...mute, dumb, etc...These are GOD's examples to show HIS power on. As JESUS said).


I await your answer to the above question before I continue.
jesus4life

 

[jasoncran]

no, i am jewish.my dad raised in the temple. grandpa taught hebrew.

ok i couldnt mention christ while in their house and i know of the messianic jews.i also have talked and conversed with many a jews since my rekindled interest in them.

they dont acknowledge the lord.

to the orthodox jews the messianics arent jews but christians. and also..

man lets brake this down. first

ask any muslim about this name YHWH and what would get a big

that is the name that god revealed if God revealed himself to mohammed then why such a big difference?

i would have told you if i wasnt mentioning messianic jews. and going to isreal doesnt impress me on that as well theres a ton of jews in miami and also temples near me. i can ask for the grief that will get.

lets see i will ask the least anti christian jewish sites on jesus and post what they have on faq.i have been told by a reliable friend and source that they dont take kind to christians being too forward. as you see the christians have hurt jews to that point and its understanable. its sad that i have to go through the back door to get what i want to know even though by name i am one of them.

and here you go and that is the sentiment i get.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160992/jewish/Can-a-Jew-believe-in-Jesus.htm

and its not uncommon! gentiles and fakers. i also heard that from a former friend whom i met in a forum and now has blocked me.

 

[jasoncran]

for the record i wasnt raised in the temple. otherwise i would really loose it with your statement on allah and muslims serving the same god.

i know my granddad didnt like arabs.jews such as my former friend did think that all faiths lead to the same god and that their version of YHWH was ok with that.

these didnt mind islam so long as they didnt kill jews or gays.

 

[theLords]

Paul and Mohammed were murderers before GOD/ALLAH touched them, and the examples go on and on of shameful people GOD will use.

I'm wondering, where did you get this information? It is factually incorrect. Mohammed didn't actually start murdering people until after he was touched by "God" or Allah.

Paul and Mohammed are like day and night.

Allah in english means KING ( we say GOD in english!!).

Do you have any linguistics to provide proof? I've never heard this claim before.

So, JESUS knows who HE was, but no one else did. That's why there is no sin to HIM, and even in the Quaran, Muslims are supposed to be waiting for HIM to say who HE is or who HE isnt'.

The Muslims believe in their holy book that Jesus (Isa) will return to tell everyone that He is not God and to stop worshipping Him. According to the Bible, that statement is anti-christesque, blasphemous lies.

Funny, because Mohammed was after HIM, and supposedly told them who HE ( ISA) was. So, why would JESUS ( ISA) have to come again and say it on judgement day; which is a day for GOD. It takes a spiritual eye to read between the lines on that one.

Was Mohammed truly after God? Or was he truly after seeking out his own flesh and worldly desires? He had sex with a child and murdered entire towns and people who annoyed him. He convinced an entire group of people that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins on the cross and that He was not truly God. That is exactly what Satan wants the world to believe. Mohammed took the holiest parts of the identity of Christ and trampled them underfoot. Now, billions of people are caught in this lie about Christ and billions may very will be condemned eternally for it.

JESUS is human, but only by default. As in the Quran, HE was spoken into Mary ( Mariam), and spoke in the belly, which makes HIM more powerful than in the Bible.

I hope that you realize that that story comes from the false gospels. "Gospels" that are known as unrealistic forgeries, with no credibility.

SOURCES

#1 probably came from the Injilu 't Tufuliyyah better known as the Arabic "Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ". It is a 2nd century Arabic apocryphal fable from Egypt. This is the possible source for the referenced verse in the Qur'an. Here is the similar passage from the Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ:

... Jesus spake when he was in the cradle, and said to his mother: "Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, the Word, which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel, and My Father hath sent me for the salvation of the world."[1]
Comparing the two verses, it's another obvious plagerism of Muhammad's. In #1, Muhammad revised what he had heard, to bring it into accord with his own beliefs and teachings.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Sources/cradle.html

Mohammed and many others after HIM and before HIM only confirm who GOD and GOD's power is. Along with some of their sinful notions. As no human is perfect. But, JESUS ( ISA) is different. HE truly isnt human, HE is just flesh.

This statement rather perplexes me. Are you trying to take Jesus' humanity away? No, I truly don't think so. Flesh is just skin and bones. But, Jesus was absolutely truly 100% human. In His human body He felt the way we feel. He had love and joy and laughter, but He also felt sadness and broken hearted.

Muhammed and many others after Christ came to destroy Christ's message to repent and believe on Him, confess and accept His crucified body as atonement.

jesus4life,
you're a nice guy. Glad to have you at our forum, but much of what you've said is Biblically inaccurate. I believe that I'm perceiving it this way because I'm misunderstanding you. Do you believe that all religions will lead to eternal life? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

 

[jesus4life]

no, i am jewish.my dad raised in the temple. grandpa taught hebrew.

ok i couldnt mention christ while in their house and i know of the messianic jews.i also have talked and conversed with many a jews since my rekindled interest in them.

they dont acknowledge the lord.

to the orthodox jews the messianics arent jews but christians. and also..

man lets brake this down. first

ask any muslim about this name YHWH and what would get a big

that is the name that god revealed if God revealed himself to mohammed then why such a big difference?

i would have told you if i wasnt mentioning messianic jews. and going to isreal doesnt impress me on that as well theres a ton of jews in miami and also temples near me. i can ask for the grief that will get.

lets see i will ask the least anti christian jewish sites on jesus and post what they have on faq.i have been told by a reliable friend and source that they dont take kind to christians being too forward. as you see the christians have hurt jews to that point and its understanable. its sad that i have to go through the back door to get what i want to know even though by name i am one of them.

and here you go and that is the sentiment i get.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/160992/jewish/Can-a-Jew-believe-in-Jesus.htm

and its not uncommon! gentiles and fakers. i also heard that from a former friend whom i met in a forum and now has blocked me.

Jasoncran,

LOL!! Grace and peace my friend. I love people when they get more and more personal, especially when you dont know them. Meaning I dont know you. Last thing I am interested in is impressing anyone. I am just stating facts upon my travels and things I have seen. That's all. We only can have that option as we can not travel space and time by thought and read minds. A person can only speak by their experience and comprehension that GOD gave them. Others can weigh it or not. It's their choice. If it helps them, then great! If doesnt then GREAT! We are not always the " right " ones for people we want to help. I pray you understand this before I get to your reply.

As I dont know you, you only said JEWS! I dont know you experience with them. So, how would I know if you knew JEWS for JESUS? How would I know you were Jewish, etc....? So, I have to answer in a general manner.

As far as me traveling to Israel, I am not trying to impress anyone with that. It was only a great testimony. HEY!! LOL!!:shocked! I am from originally from NYC!! LOL!! You say JEWS in MIAMI ( been there many times as well), well, I think you know there are many in NYC!!:waving It doesnt matter. My point was just there were many that love CHRIST and not just the outward ones. Many people have a hard time going against tradition. Just ask any denomination in the Christian belief.
But, the point is again that right now many may not, but many will later, or not. It's all up to the LORD. I am just happy to say I have seen the conversion of many myself. That's all. If you have not, then that is your experience. But I only remind you that until JUDGEMENT day, no one knows who will change. So, we give ourselves headaches trying to figure it out. Only GOD know who HE wants and who HE will change.


As far as who is Jews and who are Christians. These titles can get very interesting to those who need them. It's not about a race or people, it's the SPIRIT:

1 CORINTHIANS 9:19-23:
19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

ROMANS 2:17-24
17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and boast in God; 18 if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of little children, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.â€


These statements tell us to always be wise as serpent and innocent as a dove ( as JESUS says):

MATTHEW 10:16
16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.


Continuing on.....I pray that nothing in life that talks over GOD which is talking over clarity for our eternal life makes you griefed. As conversations are just for learning, sharing, and growing. If it griefs us, then we shouldnt involve ourselves in them.


Sorry, but I have to laugh at the PHARISEES right now. They have done a great job in following the devil through the media and different sources of education.

I say this, because in your 2nd paragraph above you mention that Christian did something to Jews. Remember that Jesus said that many will say they are with them, but HE will say I never knew you get away from me those who work iniquity:

MATTHEW 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Jesus says this, because in HIS flesh days, HE constantly warned people of false prophets and false people in various authorities who will teach wrongly. These people ( known as Pharisees, scribes, educators, spiritual leaders, lawyers, etc... of that time and even today), are still are around in some of those jobs ( but there are believers there as well). Yes, they are in the churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, etc....then and now. They will mask themselves behind any name that makes the " sheep" just follow them and do their deeds.

Its like many people go to war, but most of the leaders that tell them to fight sit at home. LOL!! . But people still blindly go in kill in the name of JESUS, GOD, ALLAH, children of ISRAEL, etc.... yet every prophet and messenger in their time said not to kill. Some were ordered to kill by GOD's order, but even some went too far, and GOD killed them. But, after JESUS, we learned to never kill. So, there is no reason to kill. We just wait for judgement day.

So, I am so sorry that many " races" and beliefs all have their afflictions with each other,. Jews and Christians, Catholics and Muslims,Buddhists and Christians, etc.....but they have to realize that its evil that is masking themselves behind their beliefs to do their evils. It's not the belief. I pray you and all understand this statement made. People are constantly fooled by this. All books of faith ( especially the three) promote love and that is it. Jesus is the full fulfillment of love of GOD.

Your last comment. As far as your friend that blocked you?? Was that ever your friend anyway??

You can just in GOD, I will never block you. There is no need for mere words. JESUS wouldnt, nor would I. The most JESUS tells me to do is treat you as a stranger. And I love strangers as well:p!!

jesus4life

 

[jesus4life]

for the record i wasnt raised in the temple. otherwise i would really loose it with your statement on allah and muslims serving the same god.

i know my granddad didnt like arabs.jews such as my former friend did think that all faiths lead to the same god and that their version of YHWH was ok with that.

these didnt mind islam so long as they didnt kill jews or gays.

Jasoncran,

WOW! Grace and peace again my friend. Whether you losing it or not and being raised in a temple or not is not my concern. But if you lose it that easy, then just remember:
JAMES 1:19-21
19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.

Also, Sorry to hear about your granddad not liking anyone. Love is the key. As JESUS even instructs us to love our enemies:
MATTHEW 5:43-48
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The last sentence. You know the commandments. THOU SHALT NOT KILL! Anyone killing under any name of faith doesnt represent that faith. Simple. ESpecially if it has anything to do with the GOD of Abraham.

jesus4life

 

[jesus4life]

I'm wondering, where did you get this information? It is factually incorrect. Mohammed didn't actually start murdering people until after he was touched by "God" or Allah.

Paul and Mohammed are like day and night.




Do you have any linguistics to provide proof? I've never heard this claim before.



The Muslims believe in their holy book that Jesus (Isa) will return to tell everyone that He is not God and to stop worshipping Him. According to the Bible, that statement is anti-christesque, blasphemous lies.



Was Mohammed truly after God? Or was he truly after seeking out his own flesh and worldly desires? He had sex with a child and murdered entire towns and people who annoyed him. He convinced an entire group of people that Jesus Christ did not die for our sins on the cross and that He was not truly God. That is exactly what Satan wants the world to believe. Mohammed took the holiest parts of the identity of Christ and trampled them underfoot. Now, billions of people are caught in this lie about Christ and billions may very will be condemned eternally for it.



I hope that you realize that that story comes from the false gospels. "Gospels" that are known as unrealistic forgeries, with no credibility.





This statement rather perplexes me. Are you trying to take Jesus' humanity away? No, I truly don't think so. Flesh is just skin and bones. But, Jesus was absolutely truly 100% human. In His human body He felt the way we feel. He had love and joy and laughter, but He also felt sadness and broken hearted.

Muhammed and many others after Christ came to destroy Christ's message to repent and believe on Him, confess and accept His crucified body as atonement.

jesus4life,
you're a nice guy. Glad to have you at our forum, but much of what you've said is Biblically inaccurate. I believe that I'm perceiving it this way because I'm misunderstanding you. Do you believe that all religions will lead to eternal life? Do you believe Jesus Christ is God?

theLORDS,

Grace and peace. I will go all around your reply. First, the last paragraph. Thanks for saying I am a nice guy. But like many who say this, it means nothing. Only because I know you dont know me. But its a great opener to finally say something negative/judging after. But no worries, it seems to be the normal " human " mannerism. I am glad though that you used the word " perceiving" to misunderstand me. That is well said. To see that in your sentence means a lot.

Do I believe all religions will lead to eternal life??
My answer: NO!! Faith will. There is a difference between religion and faith.

Do I believer that JESUS is GOD??
My answer:I believe they are one and JESUS is the WORD made flesh that was with GOD, is GOD, and dwelled with HIM before the foundation of this earth. But that's only because HE is THE WORDS of GOD. This takes a spiritual ear and eye to understand what I am saying.


Now to the top of your reply.

The correlation between Mohammed and Paul is simple. Both at one time felt they were in the right gospel and thought they were ordered by their " faith" to be able to kill. Paul when he was Saul thought that he could murder according to the Torah, as he was a scholar of a high order. Mohammed felt through Allah teaching he could do the same. Both thought and maybe were touched by GOD ( that is actually between them and GOD, not for me to judge, just read it). Yes, after Saul's conversion to become Paul, HE realized that all was about JESUS love. Yet, HE still contended with the other disciples and even parted harshly with some at period's of time because of disagreements. Both are waiting for JESUS to come back, and both are waiting for GOD's judgement; judgement day. The point of using them was that both saw GOD in different violent ways in their lives and yet both can say that GOD is love. Shows they still werent finished learning if they can admit all is GOD's but still fought, killed, or argued.

While JESUS, at the most turned over a table and told the people they are doing evil. But yet, when HE ministered, healed, or fed, HE didnt tell the evil ones to leave or try to kill them. As HE even allowed Judas to be around HIM! HE is the complete living gospel of GOD's love in the flesh. We all fall short, but not HIM.


Proof of JESUS knowing evil and not fighting or killing:
JOHN 6:70
70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

Proof of Mohammed killing after touched by GOD, you proved that. Do you need me to confirm that along with you?? Let me know. As far as Paul when he was Saul was a murderer and a scholar and believer of the Torah ( but more the false teachers of it), and then JESUS touches him. For this just read ACTS all over again, but here are some verses:

ACTS 8:1-3
1 And Saul approved of their killing him.
On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 2 Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. 3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

ACTS 9:1-4
1 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”


The WORD ALLAH being king and many other names like Almighty, GOD, Cherisher and Sustainer of the Universe, One and Only GOD, the Compassionate, the Merciful, etc...some of these phrases are used in the BIBLE ( read Psalms or just the whole BiBLE again, and you will see). The " king" definition came from Muslim friends of mine from USA, Turkey, France, Algeria, Mali, Cameroon, and more....and I dont trust them or anyone, but it just made sense. Oh, of course, you dont have to trust people to love them ( just saying that before that last sentence can be taken out of context !!.
Also, for our linguistics buffs:
Malik (Arabic: ملك‎) is an Arabic word meaning "king, chieftain".
It has been adopted in various other, mainly Islamized or Arabized, Asian languages for their ruling princes and to render kings elsewhere. It is also sometimes used in derived meanings. 'Al-Malik' (literally 'The King') is one of the Names of Allah.

now, the other names used up there, like ALMIGHTY, GOD, CHERISHER and SUSTAINER, etc...lets go to the trusty source of AL-QUR'AN ( GUIDANCE for MANKIND) 4th Edition. If you need it's author and publication, let me know. It's sitting in front of me. Little secret, I have a family member that was Muslim for over 25 years and we are close since children. Now he is a believer in CHRIST. He would be a great person to talk to as well. For scholars he is a joy, because he knows the Torah, Bible, and Quran. He speaks Hebrew, Greek, Arabic, and more...Very intelligent. GOD used him lightly in my life to piece together alot of things GOD allowed me to go to and read in my teen years in many religions while my heart was still set on GOD through JESUS.

In life I know well ( praise GOD for wisdom) that you must have validity of words and flesh for scholastic people. These are the people that have the " seen" faith. The sheep that just believe when they hear, are the faith of the " unseen". I respect both, and GOD has taught me to answer to both levels of faith.


Next one was the Mohammed after JESUS reply I wrote. HERE is where you definitely misunderstood. I was talking in a " AS IF" sort of way. Does that help?? If not what I was referring to was just that if Mohammed was truly the last prophet and JESUS was just a prophet, then in their book, they would just be waiting for Mohammed to come back, not JESUS. Do you understand what I mean?? Even in their book, it should make a believer in CHRIST smile. Remember that JESUS says that no man can mention HIS name lightly.
MARK 9:38-41
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


Also, if you going to look at Mohammed's sins and misunderstandings, then we can look at our own sins. There is only one GOD, so, if people put a person in front of HIM, then, they are similar to people who put Paul, Peter, Mary, or one or some other person in front of GOD. They are guides, but not the end all be all. But, many do follow people. So, when they follow them, they also follow their sins.
Crusades werent peaceful, but though many mentioned JESUS, they were getting " their " validation from the OT ( their validations). And they said they were Christians, but openly disobeying GOD through CHRIST who said to not kill. Some wanted to kill and others were misled. This happens in all religions. This is why it's about the heart first, which is where the faith lies, before the teaching of the religion.

Also, be very careful to not be judge and jury. GOD judges the heart, not the actions only. Or Saul would have been condemned, but he was given a chance. Like it says in the BIBLE that all will hear of HIS name before HE comes again. But, its us who will be judged if we dont live in love.

Love will attract any person. But we believers ( that I see) dont live in this way ( like JESUS did). We try to tell people who is right, wrong, going to hell, not going to hell, saved, not saved, etc... All things that only GOD knows. ONLY GOD KNOWS! We can only assume, and we know the old Abbott and Costello joke. When you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME. Though that was a joke, like most comedians, they gave a powerful message behind the laugh. When I was a kid, I didnt laugh at that joke, I saw what it meant. GOD used them for that. Though I dont watch TV much anymore, I see that lines like that are important. I pray you understand what I mean.


Jesus being human or taking away HIS humanity?? I can give or take nothing from JESUS. I dont have that power. Nor do I want it. That's too much responsibility. HE is who HE is! AMEN!! Praise GOD for JESUS CHRIST ( that was just an open praise moment!!:amen:adore:nod!! I am not joking, just thinking about GOD and JESUS life here on earth, and before brought that brought emotions! ALLEULIA!! PRAISE BE!!).

Not sorry about that praising interlude, but back to the last part.

JESUS when brought to humanity, was all human and all spirit as well. This is why HE was spotless. HE did what no human can do, because HIS job was from the FATHER's mouth. HE is GOD's words, and GOD's words are only perfect. So in human form, GOD's words only can do things perfectly. HE was allowed to feel and express the flesh and the feelings of it in order to show us to see how we can deal with feelings, temptations, and emotions, and still not disobey GOD. I pray you understand.

Any more questions, please feel free to ask. Or any more statements, please feel free to give. It's all sharing, learning, and conversation. Nothing more. GOD knows our hearts, no man can offend me or shake my faith. It's been strong and growing by the GRACE of GOD the FATHER for many years now. GOD IS GREAT!!


jesus4life

 

[jasoncran]

you miss the piont one isnt a jew in the jews eye if one comes to christ. i hope you see that. even though i see that, and yet i say the same thing as a the messianice jews but.. and i mean a but. i dont see the need to perpetually do the feasts as they all point to the lord. as a ministry yes, but not as a whole demonation.


imho, however when i went to afghanistan what the lords says is true on jesus and based on reasearch. Paul wasnt a christian when he murdered christians.

in fact one wants to be technical, in the torah he had the lawful /moral right to do that as that was commanded by god to slay anyone who said let us go and worship another god.

 

[jesus4life]

jasoncran,

I didnt miss your point at all. If you read what I said over again, it's to believe what you believe regardless that's all. I pray you understand that.

As far as the feasts or not? Thats on you. GOD looks at the heart, not the tradition. But if the tradition keeps a person faithful and focused, then it's great to support that person in that tradition. That's edification, as we learn here:

MATTHEW 5:38-42
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.


As far as Paul being a Christian when he slayed people?? I didnt say he was Christian when he did all that. I just said that he was in the Torah when he felt it was okay to kill, just like Mohammed was in the Quran. But, yet, both doctrines say that GOD is love, merciful, forgiving, etc... That was the only connection. Read what I wrote to theLORDS again. There was not confusion on Paul, not at all.

According to the Torah, Saul ( Paul) had a right to slay anyone that said lets worship another god?? Are you sure that is the full sum up of the Torah? What I am saying is let's not take a passage out of context. I am saying are you saying that is part of a full understanding of the Torah?? YOu sure that is not an interpretation?? You sure that you dont mean when GOD ordered a person to kill they were allowed to?? I will let you answer that before I continue, because, now, I would have a quite a few rabbis that I know looking at you like this:shocked!!! LOL!! Because we should have seen a lot of slaying by now. ALOT!

Great conversation anyway.

jesus4life

 

[Stormcrow]

Exactly! The Muslims are there to counteract carnality by re-imposing the law to it's strictest interpretation.

Utter and complete nonsense! Sharia Law is what they seek to implement and it is neither the Law of Moses nor the "Law of Christ!"

This entire thread is absolute silliness bordering on heresy!

 

[Adullam]

Utter and complete nonsense! Sharia Law is what they seek to implement and it is neither the Law of Moses nor the "Law of Christ!"

This entire thread is absolute silliness bordering on heresy!

Has Islam taken God completely by surprise? Why does Islam follow AFTER Christianity? Has not Christ obtained the victory ober the enemy?

Is Islam satan's last gasp at usurping the will of God?

Is God not using Islam for His own purpose?

 

[Stormcrow]

Has Islam taken God completely by surprise? Why does Islam follow AFTER Christianity? Has not Christ obtained the victory ober the enemy?

Is Islam satan's last gasp at usurping the will of God?

Is God not using Islam for His own purpose?

If Christ has obtained victory over the enemy, then why do any of your other questions even warrant a serious response???

You think Sharia Law is God's law and that's what He wants us all to follow???

If so, you're preaching an entirely different gospel!

This thread is absolutely, utterly devoid of any reason whatsoever!!!