Is Islam the rod of God?

[Drummer4Christ]

Shalom,

God used Assyria to punish Israel. Is he using Islam to punish idolators, including Jews and Christians; for they too have replaced worship of God with the worship of modern day idols like wealth, success etc.

Thanks,
Elysian

Making the Hajj to Mecca in order to prostrate oneself around the Ka'ba (black stone) is idolatry

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Utter and complete nonsense! Sharia Law is what they seek to implement and it is neither the Law of Moses nor the "Law of Christ!"

This entire thread is absolute silliness bordering on heresy!

Would you agree that Islam is closer to being the "beast" rather than the "rod"?

 

[theLords]

Making the Hajj to Mecca in order to prostrate oneself around the Ka'ba (black stone) is idolatry

As is Muhammed worship :yes

 

[jesus4life]

TOWER OF BABLE strikes again.

jesus4life

 

[Adullam]

If Christ has obtained victory over the enemy, then why do any of your other questions even warrant a serious response???

You think Sharia Law is God's law and that's what He wants us all to follow???

If so, you're preaching an entirely different gospel!

This thread is absolutely, utterly devoid of any reason whatsoever!!!

You aren't answering any of the questions. Grandstanding is not the same as wisdom.

 

[theLords]

Do I believe all religions will lead to eternal life??
My answer: NO!! Faith will. There is a difference between religion and faith.

Can you expand on this? Is faith in Mohammed going to led me to eternal life?

The correlation between Mohammed and Paul is simple. Both at one time felt they were in the right gospel and thought they were ordered by their " faith" to be able to kill.

The problem here is that Paul went from a no faith-killer, to a faithful non-killer.

Mohammed went from a faithless non-killer to a faithful murderer.

This is why I'm struggling to understand your comparison.

The point of using them was that both saw GOD in different violent ways in their lives and yet both can say that GOD is love.

The only problem with this, is that Islam doesn't teach that God is love. I've had Muslims get extremely offended when they hear this and tell me that God is not love (Allah is not love). Allah only loves the Muslims and hates non-Muslim, which is completely different from the Biblical message that God is love and loves everyone.

Proof of Mohammed killing after touched by GOD, you proved that. Do you need me to confirm that along with you??

I've read the account of Mohammed being visited by the angel in the cave (in the narrative of Aisha). I can certainly say, he was not, in fact, touched by God.

Quoting from the Hadith of Bukhari, 9.111:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship(Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous...up to..... ..that which he knew not." (96.15) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, "O Khadija, what is wrong with me?" Then he told her everything that had happened and said, 'I fear that something may happen to me."

This is not a man who met an angel of God and was called to prophethood by Him. This is a man who met a demon. But, like you've said, he who has ears to hear, hear.

The WORD ALLAH being king and many other names like Almighty, GOD, Cherisher and Sustainer of the Universe, One and Only GOD, the Compassionate, the Merciful, etc...some of these phrases are used in the BIBLE ( read Psalms or just the whole BiBLE again, and you will see). The " king" definition came from Muslim friends of mine from USA, Turkey, France, Algeria, Mali, Cameroon, and more....and I dont trust them or anyone, but it just made sense. Oh, of course, you dont have to trust people to love them ( just saying that before that last sentence can be taken out of context !!.
Also, for our linguistics buffs:
Malik (Arabic: ملك‎) is an Arabic word meaning "king, chieftain".
It has been adopted in various other, mainly Islamized or Arabized, Asian languages for their ruling princes and to render kings elsewhere. It is also sometimes used in derived meanings. 'Al-Malik' (literally 'The King') is one of the Names of Allah.

Okay, so Allah does not, in fact, mean king, but truly means "god" and Al-Malik means king. Thanks

now, the other names used up there, like ALMIGHTY, GOD, CHERISHER and SUSTAINER, etc...lets go to the trusty source of AL-QUR'AN ( GUIDANCE for MANKIND) 4th Edition. If you need it's author and publication, let me know. It's sitting in front of me. Little secret, I have a family member that was Muslim for over 25 years and we are close since children. Now he is a believer in CHRIST. He would be a great person to talk to as well. For scholars he is a joy, because he knows the Torah, Bible, and Quran. He speaks Hebrew, Greek, Arabic, and more...Very intelligent. GOD used him lightly in my life to piece together alot of things GOD allowed me to go to and read in my teen years in many religions while my heart was still set on GOD through JESUS.

Praise God for your friend finding Christ's truth.

Also, if you going to look at Mohammed's sins and misunderstandings, then we can look at our own sins. There is only one GOD, so, if people put a person in front of HIM, then, they are similar to people who put Paul, Peter, Mary, or one or some other person in front of GOD. They are guides, but not the end all be all. But, many do follow people. So, when they follow them, they also follow their sins.

The only problem is Islam states that Mohammed did no wrong and was sinless.

Any more questions, please feel free to ask. Or any more statements, please feel free to give. It's all sharing, learning, and conversation. Nothing more. GOD knows our hearts, no man can offend me or shake my faith. It's been strong and growing by the GRACE of GOD the FATHER for many years now. GOD IS GREAT!!


jesus4life

Nice discussing with you :yes

 

[Christ_empowered]

I'm going to jump in here because this topic interests me. To be honest, I only scanned a lot of the previous posts since things seem to have veered a bit off course.

Islam is decidedly un-Christian. Christianity is the only true religion that leads to righteousness and life everlasting. We are told that we are either for Him or against Him. Therefore, Islam is against Christ, Christians, Christianity, and a force for evil in this world. I think you can see this when you look at the effect on the people and culture when it is dominant in a society. At least with the more fundamentalist forms, you see oppression of women, violence, rejection of science, anti-intellectualism, and hatred. Obviously, this religion, when allowed to flourish in its most fundamentalist, true-to-the Koran (my spell checker went off when I tried to spell it with a Q) form leads to misery and death. This is just what I'd expect of a false religion.

Now, the question is: Is Islam the rod of God? And I say "Yes." Look at the European countries that are so progressive, so "post-Christian." What's one of their huge problems? Hardcore Islamic immigrants taking over, committing crimes, injecting their hateful ideology into societies based on humanism. Look at the US "War on Terror." In the name of fighting radical Islamic terrorists, American citizens have lost basic legal rights. Like to read? Don't make the government mad--they might subpoena your reading list from your local librarian, and you'll never know about it.

Anyway, I think the Bible shows us that un-believers and believers alike are in God's hands and that unbelievers/sinners can be used by God to achieve His own ends. I personally think we're seeing our rejection of the one true God being punished by the growing power (and sheer numbers, because of the high birth rate) of Islamic people. Sometimes, I think God is using Islam (and other religions and factors, too) to set up the beginning of The End. That's another discussion.

 

[Stormcrow]

Would you agree that Islam is closer to being the "beast" rather than the "rod"?

If by "beast" you mean the "beast from the earth" in Revelation 13, absolutely not. It is neither the "rod" nor the "beast", any moreso than Buddhism, Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses are "the beast."

Yet the silliness persists.

 

[theLords]

If by "beast" you mean the "beast from the earth" in Revelation 13, absolutely not. It is neither the "rod" nor the "beast", any moreso than Buddhism, Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses are "the beast."

Yet the silliness persists.

There's actually a very good case for the Islamic Messiah being the Biblical antichrist and the Islamic "Jesus" being the antichrist's helper. I don't know how preterists interpret this, though.

 

[Stormcrow]

You aren't answering any of the questions.

Because, quite frankly, they weren't worth answering.

Grandstanding is not the same as wisdom.

As illustrated by your last statement?

You made a ridiculous claim here:

The Muslims are there to counteract carnality by re-imposing the law to it's strictest interpretation.

I would like you to address how you think imposing Sharia Law (they DO NOT believe in the Law of Moses or the "Law" of grace!) is doing the will of the God YOU claim to worship!

And don't answer this with more absurd questions that have NOTHING to do with your absurd claim! Defend what you posted or withdraw it!

 

[Stormcrow]

There's actually a very good case for the Islamic Messiah being the Biblical antichrist and the Islamic "Jesus" being the antichrist's helper. I don't know how preterists interpret this, though.

Nero was the "beast from the earth" as signified in the number of his name. You can read about that here:

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/beast.html

 

[theLords]

Nero was the "beast from the earth" as signified in the number of his name. You can read about that here:

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/beast.html

Can't say I agree, but this isn't the End Times forum, so I'll gently swing us back on topic.

Thanks SC.

 

[Christ_empowered]

hey guys. I posted in this, so I'm not going to delete posts or anything, but I would ask that everyone try to post more or less on topic and try to avoid personal attacks. Its one thing to debate a question, even if it gets a little intense; its quite another to attack someone's character, intelligence, or faith.

Please calm it down a notch.

 

[Stormcrow]

Is Islam the rod of God? And I say "Yes." Look at the European countries that are so progressive, so "post-Christian." What's one of their huge problems? Hardcore Islamic immigrants taking over, committing crimes, injecting their hateful ideology into societies based on humanism.

With all due respect, how is it that Muslims are the "rod" of Christ when these so-called heathen Europeans - through their own failed immigration policies (much like ours) - are doing this to themselves?

Don't you think the better explanation for all this is summarized in the old adage "lay down with dogs you wake up with fleas?"

Has anyone stopped to think for even a moment - given what the world has been through in the past 2,000 years - that America is the "rod" of Christ?

• We helped topple the British Empire (our own revolution signalling the beginning of the end.)
• We ended slavery,
• Defeated fascist and totalitarian regimes in WWI and II,
• Brought an end to the Soviet Union and its hegemony over the Eastern Block,
• Maintained peace through strength in a nuclear world,
• Defeated Hussein, a dictator who used poison gas on the Kurds in his own country, thus liberating Iraq,
• Toppled the Taliban in Afghanistan,
• Found and killed top Islamic leaders who threaten us.

On top of all that, we send more foreign aid in the form of food and medicine to every country on earth that needs it never asking once what their politics are. The poorest countries on earth are Islamic countries. (I wonder if that has something to do with the lack of freedom they have under Sharia Law.)

In the meantime, we continue the fight against Islamism almost single-handedly, and while they killed 3,000+ of our people on 9-11, we've killed at least 100 times that many of theirs.

So tell me: if there even is a "rod" of Christ, who proudly fits the description better than the U.S.A.?

We're not free because we're perfect. We're free because the Judeo-Christian values that founded this nation are superior to the values that enslave the people of Marxist and Islamic countries. And we're envied and hated for it.

That's why this thread is silly and senseless, IMHO: it ignores history and facts.

 

[jesus4life]

Can you expand on this? Is faith in Mohammed going to led me to eternal life?



The problem here is that Paul went from a no faith-killer, to a faithful non-killer.

Mohammed went from a faithless non-killer to a faithful murderer.

This is why I'm struggling to understand your comparison.



The only problem with this, is that Islam doesn't teach that God is love. I've had Muslims get extremely offended when they hear this and tell me that God is not love (Allah is not love). Allah only loves the Muslims and hates non-Muslim, which is completely different from the Biblical message that God is love and loves everyone.




I've read the account of Mohammed being visited by the angel in the cave (in the narrative of Aisha). I can certainly say, he was not, in fact, touched by God.



This is not a man who met an angel of God and was called to prophethood by Him. This is a man who met a demon. But, like you've said, he who has ears to hear, hear.




Okay, so Allah does not, in fact, mean king, but truly means "god" and Al-Malik means king. Thanks



Praise God for your friend finding Christ's truth.



The only problem is Islam states that Mohammed did no wrong and was sinless.



Nice discussing with you :yes

TheLORDS,

Grace and peace my brother. It's always great to discuss in love of CHRIST!

Okay, I will answer you from top to bottom.

1. Religion is a practice. Faith is a belief. Many people do practices and dont believe. Others believe dont know the practices and follow. Pharisees were religious. Nickodemus became a man of faith. Do you need me to expand more?

2. Following Mohammed would bring eternal life?? No. Even he says to only follow ALLAH. So, " mohammadism" as some people call it, would not be the key to eternal life.

3. Between Paul and Mohammed. Please read my responses again. I said what you said. What I was mentioning is when Paul was called Saul, he thought he was in the right gospel ( serving GOD). Mohammed felt the same. Both killed in thier time thinking GOD said it was okay ( as many people use this excuse today). Yes, Saul became Paul and became the " non-killer" as you call it ( which I did mention in a response). BUT, he was still controversial with his own brothers. Do you need me to expand on this as well?? Please let me know.

4. I think you understand what I am saying now about Mohammed when I make the comparison with SAUL ( Paul) above. Meaning they thought they were touched by GOD ( I didnt say they were).

5. umm as far as the quote from the Qu-ran you put up?? that wasnt me. That was someone else. And I didnt say " they that have an ear let them hear! ", thats a quote from JESUS I copied. That's all.

6. Allah meaning KING. The word that Al-Malik is sometimes used as one of the names of ALLAH. As we use KING of KINGs, LORD of LORDs, GREAT I AM, ALMIGHTY, etc...all to express GOD. That was the point. The point was that in english ALLAH just means GOD. That's all. You are looking to prove points through linguistic, which wasnt the point of the conversation. But many try that one. Doesnt' work here!! LOL!! But I applaud that try!

7. PRAISE GOD for all things. My friend didnt find CHRIST, GOD drew him. GOD knows where we are, we dont know where HE is. But, I understand what you meant, but since I was a kid, I never could understand why people would say they " found" GOD:
JOHN 6:43-46
43 "Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

8. Islam says that Mohammed was sinless?? Are you sure about that one??
SURAH 40:55Patiently, then, persevere: for the Promise of Allah is true: and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and celebrate the Praises of thy Lord in the evening and in the morning.

SURAH
47:19Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.


Funny how this mistake is made by many in Christianity with Mary the mother of JESUS being " pure"/sinless. Yet she admits she is not worthy and is not sinless. But the WORD says she will be glorified by others.

Humans always want to compare themselves to a prophet or the son of GOD ( JESUS CHRIST). It gives them hope or they think a secure place in heaven if they can act like them. But, here about Mohammed, you are not right. He was a sinner like many of GOD's prophets and followers.

AGAIN, I love the discussion. I see alot just by this conversation about certain promotions. I throw that out towards GOD in the SPIRIT!! It's not a statement I will explain ( it's a Pharisees move that I have been noticing). Just something I said before that GOD has me notice what goes on on majority of the websites that HE has told me to go to.


Stay read, fed, believing, receiving, and sharing.

LOVE TO YOU IN THE HOLY PRECIOUS NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!

jesus4life

 

[Sinthesis]

“I am the punishment of God...If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.†- Genghis Khan

Islam is really much better at killing and oppressing each other rather than wielding any kind of divine power against the West. Why? Because the spirit Islam is based upon is antithetical to the Spirit of God.