Is it a Sin - Stealing - to Copy CD's?

[Mike]

What about these music sharing practices? Are these examples of "stealing" and sins?

1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church

There's probably a lot of scenarios I'm not mentioning.

Some, if not most would agree that these are, but they're subtle. And to be honest, I do this more than I like to admit.

I don't want to be a kill-joy. just sayin'

 

[John]

How about this. I buy a CD rip it and put it on my Ipod (because who carries a CD Walkman these days) and i then play my music for my friends at a party. Would it be sinful because they are hearing the music without paying? And does the one deaf guy in the room escape sin? LOL

I say no. You are just sharing what is already been paid for. :D If i buy a bag of chips and share it with you I think it is fair to say that you are not sinning. So why do some people think you are sinning when you share music?

 

[Adullam]

One could also ask...if a person takes your picture, are they taking something from you??? Technology has complicated things; it has complicated life. I feel that if I have no thought of stealing, but listen to a song I didn't pay for...I feel no guilt. Take youtube for an example. All things in moderation.

I believe we are free to walk on grass we have not cut, and breathe air we have not been taxed on. Does a tourist pay taxes on the sidewalks of the places he visits? Live and let live.

If one makes a profit on someone else's work, then that is stealing. But if it's on the airwaves, then it is public domain.

 

[Mike]

Okay, well would say the "bag of chips" comparison doesn't apply, because you're buying a fixed amount of consumable product. Who cares who eats it once you've paid for the supply.

Playing music at a party, or watching/listening to streaming music on line doesn't compare either, because you aren't taking it permanently and actually taking ownership of it.

Look at the file sharing sites that are fought vigorously by the recording industry because people are downloading music for free that actually is infringing on copy rights. They complain, and I get why they do, that these sites dramatically reduce their profits. In fact, I bet if I look closely at a CD, there's probably a statement that making and distributing copies is strictly forbidden.

If I burn a copy of Third Day for my friend instead of him buying it himself, we're in effect taking money out of their pocket by not paying for it himself. I don't feel as bad doing that to a band I have no respect for, and that probably isn't a very good attitude.

 

[Free]

What about these music sharing practices? Are these examples of "stealing" and sins?

1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church

1. In most cases, yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. In most cases, yes.

 

[John]

Ever watch that South Park episode about downloading music? In a nut shell because you downloaded music the artist(s) can only afford to live in semi luxury. :rolling It is like stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt.

 

[Free]

It is like stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt.

How is knowingly purchasing copyrighted material--which means you agree to abide by the copyright and that the artist/recording company are the rightful owners of the material--and then copying and distributing it, even remotely like stealing a paperclip (sin) or a cigarette butt?

 

[John]

It is like stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt.

How is knowingly purchasing copyrighted material--which means you agree to abide by the copyright and that the artist/recording company are the rightful owners of the material--and then copying and distributing it, even remotely like stealing a paperclip (sin) or a cigarette butt?

Stealing is wrong. But downloading isn’t stealing. If I shoplift an album from my local record store, no one else can buy it. But when I download a song, no one loses it and another person gets it. There’s no ethical problem.

Music companies blame a fifteen percent drop in sales since 2000 on downloading. But over the same period, there was a recession, a price hike, a 25% cut in new releases, and a lack of popular new artists. Factoring all that in, maybe downloading increases sales. And 90% of the catalog of the major labels isn’t for sale anymore. The Internet is the only way to hear this music.

Every time you hear a song on Youtube or the radio, your stealing. You did not pay to listen to that song. What is the difference between uploading music on the airwaves or Youtube or a torrent site?

Music is art. It is for everyone. And downloading it is not a sin. So continue to watch Youtube, listen to the radio, dance at a party, or jam to it on your Ipod.

EDIT: O and if stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt can be considered a sin then we have a serious problem on our hands. ;)
.

 

[Mike]

It is like stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt.

How is knowingly purchasing copyrighted material--which means you agree to abide by the copyright and that the artist/recording company are the rightful owners of the material--and then copying and distributing it, even remotely like stealing a paperclip (sin) or a cigarette butt?

Stealing is wrong. But downloading isn’t stealing. If I shoplift an album from my local record store, no one else can buy it. But when I download a song, no one loses it and another person gets it. There’s no ethical problem.

Music companies blame a fifteen percent drop in sales since 2000 on downloading. But over the same period, there was a recession, a price hike, a 25% cut in new releases, and a lack of popular new artists. Factoring all that in, maybe downloading increases sales. And 90% of the catalog of the major labels isn’t for sale anymore. The Internet is the only way to hear this music.

Every time you hear a song on Youtube or the radio, your stealing. You did not pay to listen to that song. What is the difference between uploading music on the airwaves or Youtube or a torrent site?

Music is art. It is for everyone. And downloading it is not a sin. So continue to watch Youtube, listen to the radio, dance at a party, or jam to it on your Ipod.

EDIT: O and if stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt can be considered a sin then we have a serious problem on our hands. ;)
.

I think this is really twisted logic. First you can't compare listening to streaming music to copying and storing permanent files to your computer! You Can't! I was ready to hear differences of opinion, but if you really believe the words you're saying, you're deluded.

So, if you're not physically taking a CD from a store, but you're making a copy of something that you haven't paid for, that's ok? I know retail stores estimate a certain percentage of loss each year due to shoplifting. They're anticipating it will happen, so does this make it right to you? And I don't disagree that they are making money, but if you are taking something without paying when you were supposed to pay, I don't see how this can be square in your mind. wrong is wrong.

Try selling all that to the authorities. I don't know what your position on faith is, but if you have it, try selling it to your pastor!

 

[John]

I think this is really twisted logic. First you can't compare listening to streaming music to copying and storing permanent files to your computer! You Can't! I was ready to hear differences of opinion, but if you really believe the words you're saying, you're deluded.

Ok. so then i will download the song listen to it then delete it. Then it is fine, after all it is not being stored permanently on my PC. Or perhaps every time i want to hear a song i will simply request it from my local radio station. What is the difference. In both cases you did not pay for it.

]So, if you're not physically taking a CD from a store, but you're making a copy of something that you haven't paid for, that's ok? I know retail stores estimate a certain percentage of loss each year due to shoplifting. They're anticipating it will happen, so does this make it right to you? And I don't disagree that they are making money, but if you are taking something without paying when you were supposed to pay, I don't see how this can be square in your mind. wrong is wrong.

Ok how about this then. I buy a CD rip it on to my PC and then upload it to my Ipod then give my friend the loaded Ipod, Is it sinful for him to use that device when it contains music that he did not pay for?

Try selling all that to the authorities. I don't know what your position on faith is, but if you have it, try selling it to your pastor!

Don't need to, It is legal to download music in Canada as long as you are not selling it. In fact i am listening to some sweet slipknot right now that i did not pay for...although i did pay to see one of their concerts last year

Music is a form of art, this being the case the next time you see a print of a famous painting ask Jesus for forgiveness.

 

[John]

One could also ask...if a person takes your picture, are they taking something from you??? Technology has complicated things; it has complicated life. I feel that if I have no thought of stealing, but listen to a song I didn't pay for...I feel no guilt. Take youtube for an example. All things in moderation.

I believe we are free to walk on grass we have not cut, and breathe air we have not been taxed on. Does a tourist pay taxes on the sidewalks of the places he visits? Live and let live.

If one makes a profit on someone else's work, then that is stealing. But if it's on the airwaves, then it is public domain.

X2

 

[Mike]

I think this is really twisted logic. First you can't compare listening to streaming music to copying and storing permanent files to your computer! You Can't! I was ready to hear differences of opinion, but if you really believe the words you're saying, you're deluded.

Ok. so then i will download the song listen to it then delete it. Then it is fine, after all it is not being stored permanently on my PC. Or perhaps every time i want to hear a song i will simply request it from my local radio station. What is the difference. In both cases you did not pay for it.

One's stealing and one's not. Public radio is free, recorded music is not supposed to be. Would you say getting XM Radio or DirectTV without paying for it is not a crime or a sin? They're charging for it, but you're not preventing someone to have it as with your earlier scenario.

Ok how about this then. I buy a CD rip it on to my PC and then upload it to my Ipod then give my friend the loaded Ipod, Is it sinful for him to use that device when it contains music that he did not pay for?

This is actually interesting. Hmmm. I wonder what the law would say. I really do.

Try selling all that to the authorities. I don't know what your position on faith is, but if you have it, try selling it to your pastor!

Don't need to, It is legal to download music in Canada as long as you are not selling it. In fact i am listening to some sweet slipknot right now that i did not pay for...although i did pay to see one of their concerts last year

I can't say I'm familiar with Canadian law. Since it's all legal and stuff, can you share the website that you are free to download music (the full recorded versions) with no penalty. This is a new one to me. I have my doubts.

Music is a form of art, this being the case the next time you see a print of a famous painting ask Jesus for forgiveness.

If whoever put it up paid for the print or there was no intended cost, I guess I wouldn't have to ask forgiveness for anything.

John, you appear to have a significant gray area in your ethics. If you're supposed to pay for a service or product and you don't, this would be wrong, stealing and a sin. I must say your iPod thing is interesting though.

 

[Free]

Stealing is wrong. But downloading isn’t stealing. If I shoplift an album from my local record store, no one else can buy it. But when I download a song, no one loses it and another person gets it. There’s no ethical problem.

There is still an ethical problem: the copyright and distribution rights of the CD belong to the artist or recording company, therefore, it is stealing. It is not quite the same as shoplifting but you are still taking profit from the artist and recording studio. It is more akin to stealing money directly from the artists wallet than lifting their CD from a store.

Every time you hear a song on Youtube or the radio, your stealing. You did not pay to listen to that song. What is the difference between uploading music on the airwaves or Youtube or a torrent site?

Youtube? Possibly a case could be made. The radio? No. Artists and recording studios give radio stations the right to play certain songs of a CD. Afaik, they can only play those songs which are released and not others. Radio stations have been given permission; the consumer who buys a CD does not have that same permission.

Music is art. It is for everyone. And downloading it is not a sin. So continue to watch Youtube, listen to the radio, dance at a party, or jam to it on your Ipod.

Downloading music is only not a sin if it's either stated as free by the artist or recording company, or you have paid for it.

EDIT: O and if stealing a paperclip or cigarette butt can be considered a sin then we have a serious problem on our hands. ;) .

Stealing is stealing. The problem is with the one who has no ethical dilemma and justifies acts of the same sin by categorizing some as lesser.

Music is a form of art, this being the case the next time you see a print of a famous painting ask Jesus for forgiveness.

Again, this is a completely different scenario than music.

 

[John]

One's stealing and one's not. Public radio is free, recorded music is not supposed to be.

Recorded music is what plays on the radio.

Would you say getting XM Radio or DirectTV without paying for it is not a crime or a sin? They're charging for it, but you're not preventing someone to have it as with your earlier scenario.

Would my friend be in sin for listening to my XM radio or enjoying my direct TV?

This is actually interesting. Hmmm. I wonder what the law would say. I really do.

It is not even worth the effort of the law to intervene. The music was already paid for when i gave it to my friend. This is the essence of sharing music.

I can't say I'm familiar with Canadian law. Since it's all legal and stuff, can you share the website that you are free to download music (the full recorded versions) with no penalty. This is a new one to me. I have my doubts.

There are thousands and thousands of music downloading sites.

If whoever put it up paid for the print or there was no intended cost, I guess I wouldn't have to ask forgiveness for anything.

Aha! Then what is the difference between that scenario and sharing music? I paid for it and shared it with a buddy and he shared it with his friend and so on and so forth. Where is the line?

John, you appear to have a significant gray area in your ethics. If you're supposed to pay for a service or product and you don't, this would be wrong, stealing and a sin.

The problem is defining the service or product. Music and art can be copied and shared endless times and remain the same, your hamburger cannot.

 

[John]

There is still an ethical problem: the copyright and distribution rights of the CD belong to the artist or recording company, therefore, it is stealing. It is not quite the same as shoplifting but you are still taking profit from the artist and recording studio. It is more akin to stealing money directly from the artists wallet than lifting their CD from a store.

Then i buy it and share it with my friend who cannot afford it and he shares it with his friend and so on and so forth. Where is the line?

Youtube? Possibly a case could be made. The radio? No. Artists and recording studios give radio stations the right to play certain songs of a CD. Afaik, they can only play those songs which are released and not others. Radio stations have been given permission; the consumer who buys a CD does not have that same permission.

Then every time i want to hear a song i request it from the station. I am still getting it for free.

Downloading music is only not a sin if it's either stated as free by the artist or recording company, or you have paid for it.

So if you listen to my Ipod you are sinning.

Stealing is stealing. The problem is with the one who has no ethical dilemma and justifies acts of the same sin by categorizing some as lesser.

Yes stealing is stealing, however the law does not care about something so petty and neither should you.

Again, this is a completely different scenario than music.

Not really. The only thing that has changed is the sensory input, visual VS auditory. Music is an artistic form of auditory communication. Therefore a art print or copied music file are equal.

 

[John]

Another thing to consider. One of my favorite bands System of a Down has a great deal of there music on their site that anyone can play and enjoy. So why can't i just download it and bypass the site all together seeing as they were offering it up freely.

 

[Mike]

I was all set to agree to disagree and let other people chime in, but you're too much of an enigma.

One's stealing and one's not. Public radio is free, recorded music is not supposed to be.

Recorded music is what plays on the radio.

If you don't see the difference, there's really a disconnect.

Would my friend be in sin for listening to my XM radio or enjoying my direct TV?

Say you find a way to get the signals for free and skip the payments. If he knowingly is doing so, yes.

This is actually interesting. Hmmm. I wonder what the law would say. I really do.

It is not even worth the effort of the law to intervene. The music was already paid for when i gave it to my friend. This is the essence of sharing music.

There are thousands and thousands of music downloading sites.

So which one(s) do you use? This doesn't make any of them ethical or legal, my lack of Canadian law aside.

Aha! Then what is the difference between that scenario and sharing music? I paid for it and shared it with a buddy and he shared it with his friend and so on and so forth. Where is the line?

No. I don't think you understood me. If a print was paid for, or there was not implied cost for the print, there is nothing inherently wrong with it.
I started this thread to hear how people deal with the dilemma. But, I guess I wasn't prepared for someone who doesn't acknowledge ANYTHING wrong with it at all. I don't understand how you can take something that you're supposed to pay for, not pay for it, and see nothing wrong with it, even if it's a small part of you.

 

[Mike]

Another thing to consider. One of my favorite bands System of a Down has a great deal of there music on their site that anyone can play and enjoy. So why can't i just download it and bypass the site all together seeing as they were offering it up freely.

Are they intending for you to listen to it streaming or are they offering an intended means to download it for you to own and keep without a price? If they have a "download" option, I see no problem. But if they have it on their site to listen, but you are finding a way to circumvent the system and permanently download it, YOU-ARE-STEALING.

I'm not saying I never make a copy of a cd for a friend, because I really like the band and think they will too, but I'm convicted by it. I probably shouldn't be doing that. Actually, that's a cop-out. I know I shouldn't be doing that.

 

[John]

I was all set to agree to disagree and let other people chime in, but you're too much of an enigma

:rolling

If you don't see the difference, there's really a disconnect.

I guess so.

Would my friend be in sin for listening to my XM radio or enjoying my direct TV?

If he knowingly is doing so, yes.

I would love to meet the person who would walk out of a room or car because he/she did not pay to listen to the music or watch the TV.

So which one(s) do you use? This doesn't make any of them ethical or legal, my lack of Canadian law aside.

Various torrent sites. I use Utorrent to download them.

No. I don't think you understood me. If a print was paid for, or there was not implied cost for the print, there is nothing inherently wrong with it.

If the music was paid for or there was no implied cost for it then why is it wrong to share it with a friend?

I started this thread to hear how people deal with the dilemma. But, I guess I wasn't prepared for someone who doesn't acknowledge ANYTHING wrong with it at all.

I have a problem of interjecting my opinions in places they don't belong :eyebrow

I don't understand how you can take something that you're supposed to pay for, not pay for it, and see nothing wrong with it, even if it's a small part of you.

It is because it has already been paid for.

 

[Mike]

Would my friend be in sin for listening to my XM radio or enjoying my direct TV?

If he knowingly is doing so, yes.

I would love to meet the person who would walk out of a room or car because he/she did not pay to listen to the music or watch the TV.

I wasn't thinking that you were talking about a situation where you pay for the service, and they visit and listen/watch. In that case, they are not taking it with them and taking ownership of it. I thought you were saying (and went back and edited my post) that you found a way to illegally receive the signal and your friend knowingly went along with it.

If the music was paid for or there was no implied cost for it then why is it wrong to share it with a friend?

But they are not paying for it and receiving it/owning it for free. If this went all the way down the line, and thousands of people handed a copy to the next friend, this is making a huge impact on the profits for the bands. (I know this happens, and it's wrong.)

I don't understand how you can take something that you're supposed to pay for, not pay for it, and see nothing wrong with it, even if it's a small part of you.

It is because it has already been paid for.

How has it been paid for in my scenario?