Is It Possible For A Christian To Fall From "Grace"?

[Willie T]

But the Galatians are indeed Christians, and Paul said they had fallen from grace.

The question is, do all Christians who fall from grace come back to grace? That is the true question, not whether Christians can fall from grace.

Probably not. Giving yourself to grace is far scarier than handling things yourself under Law. I imagine many turn and run from grace.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

The point of which is they have chosen a different way than faith in Christ to be justified. That choice has made the justification they had in Christ of no effect now.

The Bible does not say this.
These are your words.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When you fall from grace you become disconnected from the justification you had by your faith in Christ. You make Jesus of no effect in regard to justifying you. You have fallen away from and lost that justification.

Is there a verse that says we can lose our justification?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It is possible to be trusting in Christ for justification one day, and then to be trusting in something else for justification the next. The Galatians are our proof of that. They also prove the door stays open for a while so you can go back to trusting in Christ. If that were not true Paul would not be calling them back to justification by faith in Christ.

This answer sounds mixed up to me.
Can you say it simpler when some Scripture to back it up please?

 

[Mike S]

The answer depends on whether you believe what the scripture plainly says, or you believe something else.


JLB

What Paul "plainly" wrote and what anyone thinks it "plainly" means can be very different things. As has been pointed out in earlier posts, there are seemingly inconsistent scripture readings. Aside from inconsistencies, the very nature of language is that it's literally impossible to read or hear anything without interpreting.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes, he is teaching that. The context is justification. They were falling from the justification they had in Christ and returning to a reliance on justification by works of the law. The epitome of which was physical circumcision, the sign of the covenant (Sabbath keeping being the other 'sign' observance).



If that were true, why did God command Abraham and countless saints after that to be circumcised? Timothy was circumcised by no less than Paul himself.


Circumcision, for the purpose of being justified (see context), would be to abandon trust in faith in Christ alone for justification. That is what is wrong with circumcision. There is nothing wrong with circumcision in and of itself. Paul circumcised Timothy. That alone shows us it is not a sin, in and of itself, to get circumcised. Circumcision is wrong when you are doing it to earn a declaration of righteousness, instead of trusting Christ alone through faith for that declaration of righteousness.



And thus the age old question: Can the Galatians really continue to turn away from their faith in Christ until God turns them over to that decision, or is the warning sufficient enough to bring them back? Hebrews 10:29 NASB answers that question for me.

Circumcision, by belief in keeping the Law, will never lose your salvation.
It is physical, regardless of what goes through your head.
Maybe all of us try to keep the Law in some way or another but we don't see your thoughts.
But circumcision is a physical sign.
It is no different than a mental sign.

I don't have the answer here, but saying that circumcision and belief in following the Law is going to lose your salvation is wrong.
In fact, I just found on the web a site that shows 59 verses that say we can lose our salvation.
Yet, when I read them, not one actually says you can lose your salvation.
You have to read into it so that they agree with what you believe.

I don't work that way.

 

[Karl]

Again I ask, who has ever been declared just by the Law? Name one please.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Gal 5:4

We could write it like this,

Whosoever of you are justified by the law; Christ is become of no effect unto you, ye are fallen from grace.

Paul is saying (hypothetically) you who have been declared just by the Law, Christ is of no value to you (because you are already just), and to show he was speaking hypothetically he added, you have fallen from grace, those justified by the Law don't need grace, ...do they?

That's why I suggest vs 4 has to be taken in context of vss 1-10, was he not showing the absurdity of trying to be justified by the Law, ...since the Galatians were already justified by Grace?

Yes in a human court a person can be exonerated, and commit another crime, but that doesn't mean he will lose his exoneration, it just means he will be tried for a different crime, ...but in the Heavenly Court there aren't any more crimes to be committed that we need to be exonerated from, ...if there were wouldn't that be saying the death of Jesus on the Cross was not sufficient for every sin we might commit?

I always hear the statement, "if we believe we are eternally secure, then we will go on and sin as much as we want, cheap grace," but I've never met a truly born again believer that wants to continue on in sin, do any of you here feel that way, ...just can't wait for the next opportunity to sin, have any of you ever met a true believer that thinks that way?

Yes I have observed people that have had a religious experience that after the experience fades they go back to sin, but doesn't John say, "they went out from us because they were never of us?" Does not Jesus, Paul and Jude teach there will be false brothers in the church, these are the ones that give the church a bad name, they claim the Name of Jesus but live in sin, they are not born again believers, did not Habakkuk declare,

Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: 1:13

the Holy Spirit living inside of us will not allow us to continue on in habitual sin.

Concerning turning away from the Lord after walking with Him, did not Jesus say, "he who sins much loves (Me) much?" How many of you here love Jesus more today than when we were first saved, how many of us love Jesus much more than when we were first saved, why, ...because of how much mercy and grace we have received every day since we were born again, and the longer we walk with Him, draw closer to Him, understand the unfathomable love He has for us, the price required to purchase us for Himself, ...the more we recognize the depravity that resides in our sinful nature, ...which in turn causes us to love Him more, then when we have come to the end of our human love of eros (sold all of our worldly possessions for example) and phileo (have exhibited love to others by caring for them, providing for their needs) we still feel inadequate in our love for Him, we want to show Him more love and that's when His agape love, self sacrificing love, motivates us and we are loving Him much more, with all of our heart, our mind, our soul and strength, ...totally dedicated to Him,

(to let this sink in, ...how many of us have truly loved someone so much that when they left we went into deep depression, felt like our hearts had been brutally torn from out our body, guts tied up in knots, didn't care about eating or body hygiene, no longer had a reason to live, ...and the ONLY thoughts we have is to get that person to come back to us)

...now, if we love the Lord with that much dedication, ...do you truly think one day we'll decide to just walk away?

 

[Karl]

But the Galatians are indeed Christians, and Paul said they had fallen from grace.

The question is, do all Christians who fall from grace come back to grace? That is the true question, not whether Christians can fall from grace.

If it were possible to fall from grace, no..., I can't even say that, Paul states where sin abounds grace abounds much more Rom 5:20, but he goes on to say,

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 5:21

He is saying grace reigns, or rules, or has authority in our lives, doesn't that mean grace has more authority sin? Doesn't that mean that grace reigns or rules in our lives?

If we are born again with grace reigning through righteousness unto eternal life in our lives, ...then how can we fall from grace?

Are we not back to the fully exonerated state?

 

[iLOVE]

When you fall from grace you become disconnected from the justification you had by your faith in Christ. You make Jesus of no effect in regard to justifying you. You have fallen away from and lost that justification.

Please post the scripture(s) that state this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please post the scripture(s) that state this.

"You make Jesus of no effect in regard to justifying you"
2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision (in order to be justified--see context), Christ will be of no benefit to you (in justification--see context)." (Galatians 5:2 NASB parenthesis mine)

"When you fall from grace you become disconnected from the justification you had by your faith in Christ."
3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision (in order to be justified--see context), that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law (in order to be justified by the law--see context).
4 You have been severed from (justification in) Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law..." (Galatians 5:3-4 NASB parenthesis mine)

"You have fallen away from and lost that justification."
"4 ...you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything (towards justification--see context), but faith working through love (only faith means anything toward justification)." (Galatians 5:5-6 NASB parenthesis mine)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is there a verse that says we can lose our justification?

See post #50 above.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

.
"The point of which is they have chosen a different way than faith in Christ to be justified. That choice has made the justification they had in Christ of no effect now."

The Bible does not say this.
These are your words.

2 I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
4 You who are trying to be justified by law (instead of by faith in Christ) have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NIV parenthesis mine)

 

[JLB]

What Paul "plainly" wrote and what anyone thinks it "plainly" means can be very different things.

Exactly! Which is why I said -

The answer depends on whether you believe what the scripture plainly says, or you believe something else.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is there a verse that says we can lose our justification?

"4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NIV)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...I just found on the web a site that shows 59 verses that say we can lose our salvation.
Yet, when I read them, not one actually says you can lose your salvation.
You have to read into it so that they agree with what you believe.

Explain how a person who has abandoned faith in Christ for justification and is relying on a way that can not justify him can be saved.

No justification--no salvation.

 

[Deborah13]

But the Galatians are indeed Christians, and Paul said they had fallen from grace.

The question is, do all Christians who fall from grace come back to grace? That is the true question, not whether Christians can fall from grace.

I couldn't say that all do but it is clear from Paul that they can and the Galatians do.

 

[Deborah13]

Probably not. Giving yourself to grace is far scarier than handling things yourself under Law. I imagine many turn and run from grace.

I don't agree at all. Scripture tells us that the only one who never sinned was Jesus. He fulfilled the law perfectly. I'll take grace any day, I've got a chance by grace but not under the law.

 

[Mike S]

Exactly! Which is why I said -

The answer depends on whether you believe what the scripture plainly says, or you believe something else.

Let me be more blunt...the scripture doesn't plainly say anything, it only says what you interpret it as saying. There are about 40,000 Christian denominations in the world, every one of which is going to tell you only they know what scripture plainly says.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Lots of thoughts in here about this......
Lets first look at the first scripture and not start with Galatians 5:2 shall we,
Galations 5:1 So Christ has really set you free. Now make sure that you STAY FREE, and DON'T get tied up again in the SLAVERY OF THE LAW. NLT

Ok before we go any farther here lets point out a few things......
Up until this time period, all people including the Galations, new thee way of getting right with God was by the jewish laws and jewish traditions including what is spoken as the law of moses.....

Ok now YOU have got to understand that God snatched Paul up out of His old life and we all know what this was.
Now then HE gave Paul an assignment and this assignment was to take this new covenant and teach it to the gentiles and show them that it really works.

Romans 8:6 But our High priest has been given a ministry that is far superior to the ministry of those who serve under the old laws, for He is the one who GUARANTEES for us a better covenant with God, based on better promises.
Romans 8:13 When God speaks of a new covenant, it means He has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside.

Now then you have to understand that this is all new to the people through out the world. This Gospel of Christ which has brought into being a NEW COVENANT with the Almighty God. "Paul's assignment"

Now lets look at 2,3,4 shall we,
Galations 5:2 Listeen! I paul, tell you this: If you are counting on circumcision to make you right with God, then Christ can NOT help you.
Galations 5:3 I'll say it again. If you are trying to find favor with God by being circumcised, you must obey all of the regulations in the whole law of moses.
Galations 5:4 For if you are trying to make your selves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God's GRACE or the Grace Of God,
Lets look at the word Grace for a moment shall we, There are many definitions through out the word of God but for this post I am going to share what I have found to say it best...
GRACE...God's overwhelming desire to treat us as if sin never happened....

In these 3 scriptures you find Paul talking to the galations once again, This was not pauls first time here and we see this in verses 7-10, Any way, PAUL had found that some of the believers thinking had returned unto the old ways or old law once again and were trying to get right in God's eyes through the law and one part was circumcisiom.

Now God replaced these laws because he saw that they were NOT working for NO man could ever keep them. God wanted worship not sacrifices and this is another topic.....Back to this,
Paul was there shaking things up a bit inorder to get these off track galations back on track with the Gospel of Christ. Imagine Paul there preaching and teraching this new gospel of Christ all over again, He is showing them that when you try to be justified by the law, you in turn are falling out of this Grace of God. Now what does Paul mean by this?

It's quite simple realy,
Paul is showing them that YOU the galations had excepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you entered into a NEW Covenant with God and were made right in His sight (God) by the shed blood of Christ. Now some of you are going back to the old ways of doing things which do not even count any longer to be made right in the eyes of God.

His speaking of "falling out of Grace" Well Paul is simply telling them that they are acting as if the death of Jesus on the cross and the shedding of the Blood of Jesus means nothing... It is as if some of you Galations are turning away from this Free Gift of Salvation through Christ Jesus (which is the only way to the Father) and going back to your old ways of doing things which have no use or value in Getting right with God or being in Right Standing with God.

Again you need to remember that all these people knew under the old law was how bad they were and now here comes Paul telling them that they are bleesed and the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus and so forth.
Also REMEMBER THIS............there are many laws talked about in the bible or in Thee Written Word Of God.
Anything that God put intomotion is a law. The law of sowing and reaping or the power of your words etc.
Those are just 2 of many used for example.

So now you can see that being circumcised or not has no value in the spiritual realm. It's simply a tradition passed down. Falling out of GRACE that you read in Galations from the writings of Paul is ONLY his way of showing the GALATIONS that they were turning thier backs on Gods Salvation this free gift by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross for them by once again returning to the old way of doing things which was not going to do them any good.
How could it, for we read in Roman 8 (above) and in verse 1 of Galations 5 and through out the wortd of God. That the old law was done away with...

The old testament Is NOT Dead or Of No Value, however you have to be very careful how you pull a scripture from the Old Testament and use it with one of the New Terstament... as one does when pulling scriptures out of any place in the written word of God and using them to prove you belief or point for it just does not work like that.

I hope this helps clear the air on this topic and I pray that your understanding of the Written Word Of GOD will continue to grow and grow and mature unto new revolations from God. Be Blessed and Know Jesus Christ is Lord.
Jim

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Let me be more blunt...the scripture doesn't plainly say anything, it only says what you interpret it as saying. There are about 40,000 Christian denominations in the world, every one of which is going to tell you only they know what scripture plainly says.

So true.
People are using Scriptures here on this thread that people disagree what they mean.
So how do we get through that?
My interpretation of Scriptures is building up my faith in Christ.
Can others say the same thing about their interpretations?

Circumcision can never cause a person to lose their salvation.
1 Corinthians 6:18;
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body".

Paul goes on to say;
1 Corinthians 6:19-20;
"Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own: you were bought at a price".

This is proof that we belong to God and whatever we do, we still belong to God.
We are already forgiven of our sins and they will be remembered no more.
He may/will chastise us to some degree, but we are still his, that will never change.
We may not live the life he would have for us, but we are still his, you can't change that.

All disciplines given to us in the New Testament are for our own good, not to condemn us with threats of losing our salvation.
That is very negative and does nothing to build up the body of Christ.
What it does is weaken the body of Christ which causes division, and that is not of God.