Is it possible to be a born again Christian and a liberal

[jgredline]

Is it posible to be a born again Christian, meaning that one accepts the whole counsel of God and be a liberal or even a moderate?
According to the scriptures the way I understand them I would say NO.
wHAT SAY you?

 

[moniker]

Liberal regarding what aspect? Politics is not a 1 dimensional line, it actually has 3 dimensions. Well more, most likely, but 2 are the only practical ones that come up perenially; then there's the war issue that is and isn't too common.

 

[Solo]

Re: Is it possible to be a born again Christian and a libera

Is it posible to be a born again Christian, meaning that one accepts the whole counsel of God and be a liberal or even a moderate?
According to the scriptures the way I understand them I would say NO.
wHAT SAY you?

Liberal theology is a theology which conflicts with the truth that is revealed by the Holy Spirit. Liberal theology began in the late 1700s where Friedrich E. D. Schleiermacher, a German theologian and philosopher is remembered as "the father of liberalism." A brief view of the belief system of a liberal theologion follows:

• Schleiermacher rejected both Deism, which reduced Christianity to morals, and Protestant orthodoxy, which upheld an elaborate system of doctrines. In his 1799 book, On Religion: Speeches to Its Cultured Despisers, he tried to show that religion is based on feeling, not on knowledge or morality. His goal was to gain a hearing for religion among people who had previously rejected it. Scheiermacher argued that the essence of religion is the feeling of absolute dependence on God. This feeling can only be experienced through a profound self-consciousness. Schleiermacher is remembered as "the father of liberalism" because he maintained the essence of religion is not revelation outside of the self but feeling inside of the self. Such religious expression will naturally change with time and circumstance. Later the historian Adolf von Harnack argued that doctrine develops within particular historical contexts; but Karl Barth rejected Schleiermacher's view that religion is based on feeling.

In short, a liberal theologion is more likely to depend on his feelings on matters pertaining to the spiritual realm, than he is able to depend on the authority of God's Word, or hierchy of Church authority (Headship of Jesus Christ to man, Man to Woman, Parents to Children, Employer to Employees, etc.).

It is more likely that a born again person will repent from a liberal belief system, and turn towards the authority of Jesus Christ, the Word of God. Feelings can be so deceiving.

 

[Voyageur]

It is perfectly possible. The modern conservative does not have a monopoly on Christianity and spirituality in the larger sense.

 

[Solo]

It is perfectly possible. The modern conservative does not have a monopoly on Christianity and spirituality in the larger sense.

Political or Social Liberalism are offshoots from 1700 belief system of Liberal theology. This theology hangs its hat on the rack of non-literal interpretations of scripture to allow the sinful actions of liberalism to flourish. This theology is based more on feelings than in the literal Word of God. In other words, if one feels that God is not going to be angry if one aborts a baby to save the mother's life, and more than 90% of abortions are due to a form of contraception; then the sinful act of murder is succombed to the good feeling that a mother's life was saved in a few of the abortion cases.

Example: Abortion is a liberal action where most conservatives denounce it from Biblical reasonings.

Example: Gay marriage is a liberal action where the literal translation of homosexuality is wrong.

Example: Pre-marital sex is a liberal action where the literal translation of marriage may or may not be an institution of Godly value.

Liberalism is the beginning paths of one of the two items that must occur before the coming of Jesus Christ and his Millenial reign that Paul speaks of to the Thessalonians; that block being the "falling away".

The word translated "falling away" is the Greek word transliterated apostasia (Apostacy). This word is used one other time in the New Testament, and it is translated "to forsake".

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

 

[ikester7579]

I think we are stepping into a God only knows zone. To say for sure one way or another is to say we have God knowledge. God will judge us through what He sees in our hearts. This is how He will know how someone really is, even though they try and put up a false front. This is also why He is called a just judge. There's not one judge on earth that can judge as rightly, because they do not have this insight to see into someone's heart.

It has been recently figured out that the heart communicates with the brain in 4 different ways. No other organ can do this.

Neurological communication (nervous system)
Biophysical communication (pulse wave)
Biochemical communication (hormones)
Energetic communication (electromagnetic fields)

It is now believed that our heart is very much tied into our emotions through all these ways it can communicate to the brain. And is the reason it hurts when we loose someone close to us. Some believe that the heart works in conjuction with the brain to control all of our emotions. But there is still on going study of this.

This would explain why when you get saved that Christ comes into our hearts. The heart being the control center of our emotions, And Christ being there, helps us to change like we should.

 

[Solo]

Thank God that he indwells believers so that they can discern and preach the truth against liberal theology that is a deception of the enemy to lead seekers away from God.

God only knows, and as he dwells within us, we have guidance into the truth.

 

[stovebolts]

Hmmm... good question and I'm not so sure that the answer is as cut and dry as it seems.
Personally, I think that a born again Christian could be a liberal while he is maturing as a Christian simply because we should all seek to mature in Christ. Some like doctrine, some like theology (doctrine should come out of theology imho) but what it really comes down to in my opinion is that personal relationship with Christ.

I know that John Newton was probably not considered a liberal, but he was a slave trader which meant he probably didn't take scripture very serious in his early life. Imagine buying and selling people... Yet he considered himself a Christian. But I don't believe that God was done with him yet as he eventually became a minister and as far as history, he's got some of the best documentation on the slave trading around.

And, just in case you didn't know, John Newton wrote Amazing Grace.
http://www.texasfasola.org/biographies/johnnewton

Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That sav'd a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears reliev'd;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believ'd!

Thro' many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
'Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promis'd good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who call'd me here below,
Will be forever mine.

And there are three more verses...

 

[Solo]

And John Newton's tombstone reads:

• "John Newton, Clerk, once an infidel and libertine, a servant of slaves in Africa, was, by the rich mercy of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, preserved, restored, pardoned, and appointed to preach the faith he had long labored to destroy."

 

[stovebolts]

And John Newton's tombstone reads:

• "John Newton, Clerk, once an infidel and libertine, a servant of slaves in Africa, was, by the rich mercy of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, preserved, restored, pardoned, and appointed to preach the faith he had long labored to destroy."

Exactly Solo.
My point being that the journey, is as important as the destination.

Let me ask you, as I really don't have a good answer. At what point does being a liberal hurt the kingdom of God? When does a liberal assist? Now, at what point does being a hard line conservative hurt the kingdom of God? When does he assist?

I believe they are good questions. However, I cannot offer good responses as it's something that I'm still trying to figure out.

 

[thessalonian]

We should not expect all Christians to be at the same point we are in their walk. Some are on milk and some are on meat. All are on a journey toward a true understanding of God and his creation. We need to guide them along that path with gentleness and love rather than judgement. I believe that some in ignorance can be liberal but down the road if they are true followers of Christ he will change their hearts.

 

[stovebolts]

I agree Thess. I'm actually working on that topic as we write and hope to post soon.

 

[Solo]

I agree with Thess. That makes me think that there is still hope for him!! :D

 

[moniker]

Liberal regarding what aspect? Politics is not a 1 dimensional line, it actually has 3 dimensions. Well more, most likely, but 2 are the only practical ones that come up perenially; then there's the war issue that is and isn't too common.

Jgredline, could you please clarify this?

 

[jgredline]

Liberal regarding what aspect? Politics is not a 1 dimensional line, it actually has 3 dimensions. Well more, most likely, but 2 are the only practical ones that come up perenially; then there's the war issue that is and isn't too common.

Jgredline, could you please clarify this?

Do you accept the whole counsel of God meaning from Genises to Rev?
Are you pro life or pro-choice?
How do you feel about gay marriage?
What party do you belong to or support?
Solo gave a real good explanation as to what a liberal is.

 

[moniker]

Liberal regarding what aspect? Politics is not a 1 dimensional line, it actually has 3 dimensions. Well more, most likely, but 2 are the only practical ones that come up perenially; then there's the war issue that is and isn't too common.

Jgredline, could you please clarify this?

Do you accept the whole counsel of God meaning from Genises to Rev?
Are you pro life or pro-choice?
How do you feel about gay marriage?
What party do you belong to or support?
Solo gave a real good explanation as to what a liberal is.

You listed two wedge issue questions and a partisan one which does not actually reflect upon your political philosophy or outlook and is, again, just a one dimensional oversimplification of the political process. Solo overlooks a few centuries of philosophical development as well as the divergent aspect that most philosophies undergo as that ideology progresses. Modern liberalism may have its roots with Locke and Mill and all of them, but that does not mean that it is Locke-ian on all issues, etc.

For instance, on the issue of segregation just about every avowed conservative alive today would hold a stance that, just half a century ago, would be considered 'bleeding heart liberal' since most people aren't racists. Centuries ago conservatives would be considered monarchists and opposed to the idea of democracy while liberals would be for the violent overthrow and setup of a democratic republic. Today that paradigm is old hat, and most everybody promotes self government as a rule.

I guess I'm just pointing out that you're asking a very general question regarding a very nuanced subject so it's difficult to answer in an intelectually honest way. Particularly since 'conservativism' lacks an authoritative manifesto of sorts and is actually rather difficult to simply define. You might want specify things a bit better. 'Should a born again be a social liberal/conservative, fiscal liberal/conservative, authoritarian/libertarian, dove/hawk, etc.' for the axial approach for instance. Although that has a number of issues as well given specific occurances and less general applications of the title too, like any either-or situation. If the world was so black and white without gray areas things would be much easier.

 

[jgredline]

Liberal answer #2
Pretend you don't know the questions and answer the question with another question.

 

[lovely]

I think that it is better to obey a truth only after you posess it in your heart fully to avoid self-righteousness. We can only do the things that last in the Lord, and not of ourselves. We can not institute, or mandate, methods in our lives of principals we do not fully understand without being legalistic. Where is our mercy in this, and who does it profit? Not the Kingdom.

If God's Word aligns with something that is seemingly liberal to others, you better be prepared to follow even if other believers condemn you for it, and the opposite is also true. Satan is out to blurr the lines for all, and we should not be fleshly minded, but be on our guard, and have spiritual discernment so that we are not ensnared.

The Pharisees condemned Christ for being around sinners, and eating with them. I am sure this seemed very "liberal" to them. But Christ came to save the lost...he knew the greater truth in the matter, and those condemning didn't know the Truth at all, or they would have pulled up a chair and ate with Him too. Truth must be spiritually discerned.

We can never be too careful about who we align ourselves with as far as organizations go. Align with Christ alone, and follow Him...the Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, Liberals, or whomever better keep this in mind, and know that only God saves, and only what's done for Him will last. Do not defend these organizations, but defend the faith. The Truth of God will never fail, but men will always.

BTW, peace, that book bag is awful...Jesus is not a Republican, and votes for no one given He is the King of Kings, and Ruler of all. Yuck, what an awful thing! I could never carry that, especially with my Bible in it! Just....ewwww!

The Lord bless all of you.

 

[jgredline]

Lovely
Usually you make alot of sense, but what are you saying here?

 

[Vic C.]

Lovely,

No one saw this until now. :-? The bag is gone. Thank you!

P4All, next time, post just the link with a disclaimer and let the Mods or myself decide whether or not it is suitable to post. Better yet, if you even think it's not a suitable pic for a Christian site, please don't post it at all. :-?