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Is Jesus the biological Son of GOD?

And one day we/you will se HIM FACE TO FACE don't you get it you will se JESUS FACE TO FACE, and then you can explain to HIM in person why you have not believed in HIM in spite all the evidence we have been precenting you with.

The truth is we have believed in Jesus, as we have all prophets. The issue wont who we believed in a specific prophet, it will be whether or not we have submitted to the will of God. This is why the prophets came, to help us submit ourselves fully to the will of our creator.

Jesus said in Matthew 7:21 'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

Notice he those who do the will of my father, that is God, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. What is Islam - submitting to the will oF God.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He is going to tell those people who call him Lord, Lord, and who do miracles in his name, to depart from him. He calls them workers of iniquity. Anyone care to tell me why he is going to tell those who call him Lord to depart from him?
 
Qasim786 said:
Jesus said in Matthew 7:21 'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

He is going to tell those people who call him Lord, Lord, and who do miracles in his name, to depart from him. He calls them workers of iniquity. Anyone care to tell me why he is going to tell those who call him Lord to depart from him?


Not for thinking he is "Lord" by the looks of it.

Do you have to always interpret Christianity from an Islamic perspective? Can you not try and see it on its own terms?
 
What i want to know is why he is telling those people who say 'Lord Lord, did we not prophesy in thy name...' an do miracles in his name, that they are workers of evil. What is your 'interpretation' if you think mine is wrong?

i think the reason is pretty obvious from an Islamic perspective, it fits in quite perfectly, but since you dont accept it, tell me what you think it means from your perspective.
 
Qasim786 said:
What i want to know is why he is telling those people who say 'Lord Lord, did we not prophesy in thy name...' an do miracles in his name, that they are workers of evil. What is your 'interpretation' if you think mine is wrong?

i think the reason is pretty obvious from an Islamic perspective, it fits in quite perfectly, but since you dont accept it, tell me what you think it means from your perspective.

Just what do you mean by it fits in quite perfectly?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA, coming soon
chana
 
YESHUA said:
And one day we/you will se HIM FACE TO FACE don't you get it you will se JESUS FACE TO FACE, and then you can explain to HIM in person why you have not believed in HIM in spite all the evidence we have been precenting you with.

chana

Yes you will see Jesus face to face then he will ask you and will blame you why you made him God or Son of God. Then what you will say to him?!
May you will bite at your hands
 
Muhsen said:
YESHUA said:
And one day we/you will se HIM FACE TO FACE don't you get it you will se JESUS FACE TO FACE, and then you can explain to HIM in person why you have not believed in HIM in spite all the evidence we have been precenting you with.

chana

Yes you will see Jesus face to face then he will ask you and will blame you why you made him God or Son of God. Then what you will say to him?!
May you will bite at your hands

What I wil say to YESHUA is this thank you for your love and salvation.
And HE in return will say welcome home child of GOD rest in Shalom. And just what do you think he will say to you when you se him? And what will you say to him?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA
chana
 
Qasim786 said:
And one day we/you will se HIM FACE TO FACE don't you get it you will se JESUS FACE TO FACE, and then you can explain to HIM in person why you have not believed in HIM in spite all the evidence we have been precenting you with.

The truth is we have believed in Jesus, as we have all prophets. The issue wont who we believed in a specific prophet, it will be whether or not we have submitted to the will of God. This is why the prophets came, to help us submit ourselves fully to the will of our creator.

Jesus said in Matthew 7:21 'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

Notice he those who do the will of my father, that is God, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. What is Islam - submitting to the will oF God.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He is going to tell those people who call him Lord, Lord, and who do miracles in his name, to depart from him. He calls them workers of iniquity. Anyone care to tell me why he is going to tell those who call him Lord to depart from him?
Can you read then read this, not every one, meaning not every one but some will get through the narrow gate. You se those who call them self Christians and have done evil things, like the crusaders or the Catholics killing both Jews and Muslims in the name of JESUS, not like in Islam the Muslims kill in the name of Allah and get a place in where ever they get a place most likely in hell but that’s beside the point. In Christianity you cannot steal, lie, murder, ect. ect., and expect to go to heaven with Jesus that’s very simple should be even for a Muslim? That’s the big different between Islam and Christianity we are commanded to follow the 10 commandments not like Islam where you can cut corners when ever you like it, just take for example something like your day of rest is Friday I haven't seen one Muslim with a grocery store or a kiosk have a single day of thy are open from morning to evening all year round no day of rest, we are to keep a day of rest or should I say we are commanded to keep a day of rest.
And then we have the jihad that’s a sure way of getting to heaven in Islam, if we do that in Christianity no way we can go to heaven to be with Jesus, HE hates evil and HE will not allow anything evil to enter heaven so it makes me wonder where would you people go after you have slaughtered nameless of Christian to heaven? Stop fooling yourself and get a reality check when we the Christians can’t go to heaven for not keeping the commandments, do you honestly think you can go to heaven for killing, lying and stealing, and god knows what else your doing, incest honour killing young girls get raped by one of their own family member and of goes her head to save face come on give us break your religion is so despicable, and so low some.
And now tell me Muhsen that this is done by some one else like whom? The pope maybe or Bush?


12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
You se this is the law and the prophets, do you have that in Islam? Other than to kill the infidels in the name of Allah?

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

That fits Muhammad pretty good YESHUA was thinking of him so Muhammad is in the Bible after all aren’t you happy? Now you don’t have make up stories about him being in the bible he is.


16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

And therefore we can se that Islam is a corrupt tree it brings forth evil fruit, as such Islam will be cast into the fire and that’s hell in case you didn’t know. And tell me now how many Muslims are being killed in the name of JESUS now a days and where?

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Do you think that it’s the people that have done wonderful works in the name of JESUS that will not enter heaven? No my friend as I have stated above it’s the people who have in JESUS name done iniquity and at the same time being doing wonderful works in HIS name, but then again you wouldn’t know about that would you because anything goes in Islam?
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA, coming soon
chana
 
Qasim786 said:
What i want to know is why he is telling those people who say 'Lord Lord, did we not prophesy in thy name...' an do miracles in his name, that they are workers of evil. What is your 'interpretation' if you think mine is wrong?

i think the reason is pretty obvious from an Islamic perspective, it fits in quite perfectly, but since you dont accept it, tell me what you think it means from your perspective.


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,"

Some people who profess to be Christians are hypocrites. That is all I think it means. (I welcome differing views from Christians)



Is it possible, that Christian scripture might actually support Christian doctrine? rather than Islam?
 
Qasim786"]"Do not both of our scriptures indicate that He was birthed by a virgin who became pregnant by the Holy Spirit? "

The concept of Jesus birth in Christianity is he was born to a virgin, and because of this his father is God almighty. But the Quran states that God does not beget, nor is he begotten. Plus i thought that the title of Jesus being the son of God was a spirtual title?

If the Koran states God does not beget, I am wondering if Muslims realises what beget actually means...

be·get (b-gt)
tr.v. be·got (-gt), be·got·ten (-gtn) or be·got, be·get·ting, be·gets
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce:

Did not God cause Jesus to happen..to exist, occur..So the Koran is stating God did not...make Jesus happen.




In Islam, for God to create something he merely wills it or says 'be' and it is, because he can do anything. But in the bible it seems that the holy Spirit had to impregnate Mary inorder for Jesus to be born.


So in fact you do realise what beget means....so you do accept Jesus was begotten by God..

be·got·ten (b-gtn)
v.
A past participle of beget.

It seems there is alot of confusion....What exactly can't you understand....God did beget Jesus...you admit this yourself ...by saying he says 'be' and 'it is'...then you say...Jesus is not begotten...
this is a contradiction.

Is it that you only have one meaning of the word beget within Islam.

meaning to father; sire. Did Mohammed mean beget in this way...that God did not sire Jesus...is that the issue..

be·get (b-gt)
tr.v. be·got (-gt), be·got·ten (-gtn) or be·got, be·get·ting, be·gets
1. To father; sire.
2. To cause to exist or occur; produce
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
Not to mention the fact that Christ called YHWH, Abba. This term is father, and it implies a very intimate sense. No Jew before Christ would have dared to call God by such a title.


Hi every one I am new here Just thought i put my two cents worth.
Please explain this then.
"The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shown you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?' The Jews answered him saying, 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God.' Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law, 'I said you are gods'? If he (God) called them gods unto whom the word of God came (meaning that the prophets are called GODS in your language). Say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and inot this world, 'Thou blasphemies'; because I said I am the son of God?"
can we say Jesus or the Bible contardicts itself here.Which one? I think it is clear here that Jesus is saying literally he is not the son of GOD but prophets in Hebrew were called sons of GOD.One point to bear in mind here and a very important one too:
Jesus used the expression 'Your Father" and 'Thy Father' about 13 times before the first time he said "My Father". Jesus was making it very clear that God is, metaphorically speaking, the Father (creator) of everyone.
So How can he be the Biological son????????????????
Here is food for thought:
"O ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you all, as ye yourselves also know..."ACTS 2:22
Man approved of GOD (prophet) not son and not GOD
:angel:
 
No contradiction, we know that Christ was fully man, and fully God at the same time. The passage you ponited to as a contradiction has a a few verses you left out that explain the story.

John 10:22-39 has the whole story. In verse 38 he again claims his diety. In fact in John 10:30, Jesus said that I and the father are one.
 
Brutus/HisCatalyst said:
No contradiction, we know that Christ was fully man, and fully God at the same time. The passage you ponited to as a contradiction has a a few verses you left out that explain the story.

John 10:22-39 has the whole story. In verse 38 he again claims his diety. In fact in John 10:30, Jesus said that I and the father are one.
This is what the bbile says:
Nu 23:19 (ASV) God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?

I think the issue here was whether Jesus was the son of GOD not GOD, but nevertheless I will elaborate on this point.
Do you always Quote only one verse to prove that Jesus was GOD.Why do you not quote the full scenario there.Why not take it from verse 25 to give a better picture of what Jesus is saying:

25 (AVRLE) Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me.

26 (AVRLE) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 (AVRLE) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 (AVRLE) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 (AVRLE) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

30 (AVRLE) I and my Father are one.


Jesus and the father are one in purpose, not one person.He taalks about his sheep and how no one can take awy his People from him Given to him by the father.Why did you not quote verse 29 did that not suit the agenda
29 (AVRLE) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all

Clear I think that even Ray charles and stevie wonder would see it.
:angel:
 
warner said:
Do you always Quote only one verse to prove that Jesus was GOD.Why do you not quote the full scenario there.Why not take it from verse 25 to give a better picture of what Jesus is saying:

You are the one who is not telling the whole story, warner. The entire story starts at John 10:22, and Christ is clearly proclaiming his diety. I even said that before.

Brutus said:
John 10:22-39 has the whole story.

But since you asked so politely, here's the Entire pasage.

JOHN 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
JOHN 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
JOHN 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
JOHN 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
JOHN 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
JOHN 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
JOHN 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
JOHN 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
JOHN 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOHN 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
JOHN 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
JOHN 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
JOHN 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
JOHN 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
JOHN 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
JOHN 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
JOHN 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
 
warner said:
Jesus and the father are one in purpose, not one person.He taalks about his sheep and how no one can take awy his People from him Given to him by the father.Why did you not quote verse 29 did that not suit the agenda
29 (AVRLE) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all

Clear I think that even Ray charles and stevie wonder would see it.
:angel:

To quote from Josh McDowell's book "More Than a Carpenter," on page 10 it says, "Greek scholar A. T. Robertson writes that the "one" is neuter, not masculine, in the Greek, and does not indicate one in person or purpose but rather one in "essence or nature."
The best evidence that this was a claim to Deity is when you look at the Jews response!
Also, I think if you look at that verse again where Jesus mentions God calling people "gods", it's clear that He was pointing Himself out as much different than the others. 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came–and the Scripture cannot be broken– 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God's Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.†39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

-McQ 8-)
 
McQuacks said:
warner said:
Jesus and the father are one in purpose, not one person.He taalks about his sheep and how no one can take awy his People from him Given to him by the father.Why did you not quote verse 29 did that not suit the agenda
29 (AVRLE) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all

Clear I think that even Ray charles and stevie wonder would see it.
:angel:

To quote from Josh McDowell's book "More Than a Carpenter," on page 10 it says, "Greek scholar A. T. Robertson writes that the "one" is neuter, not masculine, in the Greek, and does not indicate one in person or purpose but rather one in "essence or nature."
The best evidence that this was a claim to Deity is when you look at the Jews response!
Also, I think if you look at that verse again where Jesus mentions God calling people "gods", it's clear that He was pointing Himself out as much different than the others. 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came–and the Scripture cannot be broken– 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God's Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.†39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

-McQ 8-)
Actually Jesus Spoke hebrew and Aramaic and By translating to greek proves nothing, Where he says here in verse 35 that god called others GODs too, so why does ity have to apply only for Jesus.Thid verse prove that The Christians do not beleive in one GOD if others were GODs and sons of GOD too.
In the Semetic language son of GOD means close to GOD, not the literal son of GOD.At the time of Jesus the was a person called Barabas, the one who was captured and the people requested to free father than Jesus.In hebrew "Bar" is son and "Aba" is father.So was Barabas the Son of GOD too. If not then why does it only apply to Jesus and not one who was actually called Son of the father.Lets not go to the greek , let us use the real Source.The Greek was alanguage that the Bible had been translated into.and there was errors in the translations we all know that. The Jews wanted to Stone Jesus because they Knew that literally GOD did not have a son and that also GOD was not a man.So if jesus was claiming that he was the literal son of GOD then he was blasphemeing and this is why he had to explain that god caled others GOS and sons of GOD.It says in the verse that :

"The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, 'Many good works have I shown you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?' The Jews answered him saying, 'For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself a God.' Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your law, 'I said you are gods'? If he (God) called them gods unto whom the word of God came (meaning that the prophets are called GODS in your language). Say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and inot this world, 'Thou blasphemies'; because I said I am the son of God?"
We can see that in hebrew GODs and sons of GOD were not meant literally.
The jesus understood the Message in Hebrew and not greek, in the OT written in Hebrew not Greek it says:

Nu 23:19 (ASV) God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good

Clear and simlple
CYA
:angel:
 
I think you're still missing my point...I'll try one more time. In that verse Jesus points out that God called some people 'gods'. Then He's saying, "So what about Me, what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? If God spoke to some PEOPLE and called them gods, then what about the One who is from God? Why do you accuse me of saying such an evil thing then?" I think the way that Jesus says this displays His point. He was much different than these others because He was "set apart" and God's "very own." And then again He reiterates that He is in the Father and the Father is in Him, a claim that no Jew would ever have made, even in the New Agey term that some would like to interpret it. This was a clear claim to Deity.
-McQ 8-)
 
Thanks Warner.

Also if you think that Jesus was claiming divinity because he said 'I and the father are one' (which when you look at the context of the verse, we see that he clearly is not) then consider the following verses:


Consider John 17:21 Where Jesus Says : " Father, I Pray, that they can BE ONE. As you are in me and i am in you , i pray that they can be ONE IN US. Then the world will believe that you sent me. "

Here Jesus is praying that his disciples can be one in him and the Father. One is what: undoubtebly in purpose. The Greek word for one - hen, which is the same greek word that is used in John Chapter 10:30 where Jesus says i and the father are one. The word one is used to denote one in purpose. Both in 17:21 and 10:30. He is not claiming to be the same as God.
 
Even if Jesus only meant it as one in purpose in John 10:30, then why didn't He just say when the Jews went to kill Him, "Yo, guys, you're totally over reacting to what I'm saying. I'm working with our Father to fulfill His purpose, not saying I'm Him!" Saying you were "one with God" was no loose term, it was clear blasphemy. And why would He still call Himself the great "I Am"? If you go back to that passage in John where Jesus prayed that believers would be one in Him and the Father, in that same chapter He prays that His Father will give Him the same glory He had with Him "before the world began." John 17:5
John 14:8-10 Jesus says anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father. You can attack these verses, but I just feel that there are too many to say that Jesus didn't claim to be divine. http://www.answering-islam.org/Hahn/son.html
-McQ 8-)
 
McQuacks said:
Even if Jesus only meant it as one in purpose in John 10:30, then why didn't He just say when the Jews went to kill Him, "Yo, guys, you're totally over reacting to what I'm saying. I'm working with our Father to fulfill His purpose, not saying I'm Him!" Saying you were "one with God" was no loose term, it was clear blasphemy. And why would He still call Himself the great "I Am"? If you go back to that passage in John where Jesus prayed that believers would be one in Him and the Father, in that same chapter He prays that His Father will give Him the same glory He had with Him "before the world began." John 17:5
John 14:8-10 Jesus says anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father. You can attack these verses, but I just feel that there are too many to say that Jesus didn't claim to be divine. http://www.answering-islam.org/Hahn/son.html
-McQ 8-)
Hi
first of all let me clarify that i have no intention of attacking anything or anyone, my intention is dialogue.
There are many more verses in the bible where Jesus is Saying "Our father" rather tha "my father ".
So he is explaining that according to his teaching we are all sons of GOD in the way that he created us. Why does this have to apply to him alone.He always said he worshipped the one GOD , Our god and his GOD, our father and his father.Again the term not being used literally here. Ha referred to himself more as the some of man than as athe son of GOD and make no mistake about it, in the Hebrew language there are no capital letters so we can not distinguish from Son and son. This concept was inserted in the Bible after it was translated into greek to suit the Greeks and make them convert. No Jews will claim that GOD had a son nor will any claim he (GOD) was a man.

Nu 23:19 (ASV) God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?
Bye
:angel:
 
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