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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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O
Oscar3
Guest
Re: hmmm
Well, if this is how want to justify this false teacher, then by all means go ahead. Its ashame that he does preach to so many though. All those lives he will be accountable for.
carey said:
Well, if this is how want to justify this false teacher, then by all means go ahead. Its ashame that he does preach to so many though. All those lives he will be accountable for.
C
carey
Guest
Re: hmmm
What does he teach that is false??
oscar3 said:
What does he teach that is false??
O
Oscar3
Guest
Re: hmmm
For starters that Jesus is not the only way for salvation
Need I say more? I copy and paste for you were he said this?
carey said:
For starters that Jesus is not the only way for salvation
Need I say more? I copy and paste for you were he said this?
C
carey
Guest
Re: hmmm
Yes please include the link as well. I would like to personally ask Joel about this. And have the printout with me.
oscar3 said:
Yes please include the link as well. I would like to personally ask Joel about this. And have the printout with me.
O
Oscar3
Guest
Carey
Here is a part of the interview. The link is at the bottom.
On Moral Issues
King: How about issues that the Church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?
Osteen: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don?t go there. I just?
King: You have thoughts, though.
Osteen: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don?t think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don?t think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I?m not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open to everybody.
Even though the Bible speaks very plainly about these two issues and condemns them as sinful Mr. Osteen simply does not go there when he addresses his congregation and the multitudes on television. Personally he does not believe that same-sex marriage the plan for God, but he apparently lacks sufficient conviction to share his beliefs, which I hope are based on a biblical world-view, with his followers. He lacks the same moral fiber concerning abortion. It is poor leadership not to biblically address the tough moral problems in our society. Frankly, we are in the condition we are in because good men kept silent while the plague of immorality grew in our midst.
I agree with Osteen that our role as pastors and Christians is not to condemn people who are homosexuals or women who have had abortions. We are however to make them acutely aware of what God position is on these issues and the pardon He offers by grace alone in His Son.
King: You don?t call them sinners?
Osteen: I don?t.
King: Is that a word you don?t use?
Osteen: I don?t use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don?t?So I don?t go down the road of condemning.
Jesus called people sinners and taught a great deal about sin. He used the word and concept quite a bit (as do all the biblical writers). Calling someone a ?sinner? is not condemning them necessarily it is a statement of fact. We are all sinners in need of the free grace of God in Christ Jesus. To neglect to tell the lost of their condition before God is to send them happily on their way to hell. One caller did challenge Joel regarding salvation by asking if Joel believed that Jesus Christ was the only way to the father. Osteen replied ?Yes, I would agree with her.? (I?ve combined Osteen?s comments regarding salvation).
King: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?
Osteen: No. Here?s my thing, Larry, is I can?t judge somebody?s heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody?s heart, and so --- I don?t know. To me, it?s not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn?t. I just say, here?s what the bible teaches and I?m going to put my faith in Christ.
King: What if you?re Jewish or Muslim, you don?t accept at all?
Osteen: You know, I?m very careful about saying who would and wouldn?t go to heaven, I don?t know?
King: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They?re wrong, aren?t they?
Osteen: Well, I don?t know if I believe they?re wrong?I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don?t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don?t know. I?ve seen their sincerity. So I don?t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
I hope from these statements you can see the dire need for a sound seminary education. Here Osteen is on a global television show and he either cannot, because he does not know; or will not give a clear message regarding salvation in Christ and in Him alone.
Joel cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him or He isn?t the only way. This is a very confused young man with no convictions concerning the unique claims that Christ made concerning Himself. All Joel had to do was quote for Mr. King the following text and let the chips fall where they may.
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18
?But I know they love God.? Oh really, then I guess the Holy Spirit was wrong when He had Paul cite Isa. 41:6 in his letter to the Romans:
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:10-18
Love God, the natural unconverted man is at enmity with the God of the Bible, which Joel should know and not be ashamed to state clearly. Joel sounds very much like a man who is actually ashamed of the Gospel. When he could be speaking words of life to untold millions of viewers, he balks and refuses to stand up for the truth for the sake of the approval of fallen men. What a shame indeed.
Now Joel Osteen had the oppertunity on a show that is viewd by millions of people on a non religious station to preach that JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIIFE... And he could not do it. Why? Because he is a flase teacher who does not believe what he teaches. He is to busy trying to please man, than God.
John Mcarthuer and Franklyin Grahnm when asked the same questions on a differant larry king interview, said that ;;JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, THERE IS NOT OTHER. tHE diffrenace here is that both franklyn Grahm and John Mcarurther put God ahead of themselves as any Christian would do.
http://www.discernment.org/osteen.htm
Here is a part of the interview. The link is at the bottom.
On Moral Issues
King: How about issues that the Church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?
Osteen: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don?t go there. I just?
King: You have thoughts, though.
Osteen: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don?t think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don?t think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I?m not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open to everybody.
Even though the Bible speaks very plainly about these two issues and condemns them as sinful Mr. Osteen simply does not go there when he addresses his congregation and the multitudes on television. Personally he does not believe that same-sex marriage the plan for God, but he apparently lacks sufficient conviction to share his beliefs, which I hope are based on a biblical world-view, with his followers. He lacks the same moral fiber concerning abortion. It is poor leadership not to biblically address the tough moral problems in our society. Frankly, we are in the condition we are in because good men kept silent while the plague of immorality grew in our midst.
I agree with Osteen that our role as pastors and Christians is not to condemn people who are homosexuals or women who have had abortions. We are however to make them acutely aware of what God position is on these issues and the pardon He offers by grace alone in His Son.
King: You don?t call them sinners?
Osteen: I don?t.
King: Is that a word you don?t use?
Osteen: I don?t use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don?t?So I don?t go down the road of condemning.
Jesus called people sinners and taught a great deal about sin. He used the word and concept quite a bit (as do all the biblical writers). Calling someone a ?sinner? is not condemning them necessarily it is a statement of fact. We are all sinners in need of the free grace of God in Christ Jesus. To neglect to tell the lost of their condition before God is to send them happily on their way to hell. One caller did challenge Joel regarding salvation by asking if Joel believed that Jesus Christ was the only way to the father. Osteen replied ?Yes, I would agree with her.? (I?ve combined Osteen?s comments regarding salvation).
King: So then a Jew is not going to heaven?
Osteen: No. Here?s my thing, Larry, is I can?t judge somebody?s heart. You know? Only god can look at somebody?s heart, and so --- I don?t know. To me, it?s not my business to say, you know, this one is or this one isn?t. I just say, here?s what the bible teaches and I?m going to put my faith in Christ.
King: What if you?re Jewish or Muslim, you don?t accept at all?
Osteen: You know, I?m very careful about saying who would and wouldn?t go to heaven, I don?t know?
King: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They?re wrong, aren?t they?
Osteen: Well, I don?t know if I believe they?re wrong?I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don?t know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don?t know. I?ve seen their sincerity. So I don?t know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.
I hope from these statements you can see the dire need for a sound seminary education. Here Osteen is on a global television show and he either cannot, because he does not know; or will not give a clear message regarding salvation in Christ and in Him alone.
Joel cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him or He isn?t the only way. This is a very confused young man with no convictions concerning the unique claims that Christ made concerning Himself. All Joel had to do was quote for Mr. King the following text and let the chips fall where they may.
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:15-18
?But I know they love God.? Oh really, then I guess the Holy Spirit was wrong when He had Paul cite Isa. 41:6 in his letter to the Romans:
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Romans 3:10-18
Love God, the natural unconverted man is at enmity with the God of the Bible, which Joel should know and not be ashamed to state clearly. Joel sounds very much like a man who is actually ashamed of the Gospel. When he could be speaking words of life to untold millions of viewers, he balks and refuses to stand up for the truth for the sake of the approval of fallen men. What a shame indeed.
Now Joel Osteen had the oppertunity on a show that is viewd by millions of people on a non religious station to preach that JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIIFE... And he could not do it. Why? Because he is a flase teacher who does not believe what he teaches. He is to busy trying to please man, than God.
John Mcarthuer and Franklyin Grahnm when asked the same questions on a differant larry king interview, said that ;;JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, THERE IS NOT OTHER. tHE diffrenace here is that both franklyn Grahm and John Mcarurther put God ahead of themselves as any Christian would do.
http://www.discernment.org/osteen.htm
C
carey
Guest
hmmm
He never said Jesus was not the only way to heaven.
He just simply said he knows what the Bible says and he wants a relationship with Jesus.
Now because he is not confrontational does not mean he is teaching anything false.
If he without confrontation keeps saying I know what the Bible says and he does not have the right to Judge he is teaching a truth.
When he says he does not know another persons heart he is telling a truth.
If he keeps refrring the answers to the Bible he is encouraging people to read for themselves.
thsi approach for many is the only way to lead them to Christ.
Their are many different types of preaching to reach many different types of mindsets.
This is why I get a kick out of Joel Osteen , John haggee , Perry Stone,
Hal Lindsey, Jentzyn Franklin, and Dr. Gene Scott who all have very contrasting ways of preaching the word. But so far I have not seen any of them preach and untruth.
I feel better now thanks for sending me this.
God bless,
Carey
oscar3 said:
He never said Jesus was not the only way to heaven.
He just simply said he knows what the Bible says and he wants a relationship with Jesus.
Now because he is not confrontational does not mean he is teaching anything false.
If he without confrontation keeps saying I know what the Bible says and he does not have the right to Judge he is teaching a truth.
When he says he does not know another persons heart he is telling a truth.
If he keeps refrring the answers to the Bible he is encouraging people to read for themselves.
thsi approach for many is the only way to lead them to Christ.
Their are many different types of preaching to reach many different types of mindsets.
This is why I get a kick out of Joel Osteen , John haggee , Perry Stone,
Hal Lindsey, Jentzyn Franklin, and Dr. Gene Scott who all have very contrasting ways of preaching the word. But so far I have not seen any of them preach and untruth.
I feel better now thanks for sending me this.
God bless,
Carey
O
Oscar3
Guest
Re: hmmm
Carey
I am glad you feel better. Denial is a powerful thing.
carey said:
Carey
I am glad you feel better. Denial is a powerful thing.
fcs25 said:
Please post the scripture you have in mind so we may have a look. I'll bet it doesn't mean what you think it means...are you saying we are never, ever allow to judge another who claims to be a member of the Body of Christ?
2 Corinthians 6:14-18; 1 Timothy 6:3-5; 2 Timothy 2:19-22; 3:1-5; Amos 3:3
jgredline
Member
fcs25 said:
Matthew 7:1-6 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6 Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Ok, so what does all this mean?
Matthew 7:1-6
7:1 Sometimes these words of our Lord are misconstrued by people to prohibit all forms of judgment. No matter what happens, they piously say, “Judge not, that you be not judged. But Jesus is not teaching that we are to be undiscerning Christians. He never intended that we abandon our critical faculty or discernment. The NT has many illustrations of legitimate judgment of the condition, conduct, or teaching of others. In addition, there are several areas in which the Christian is commanded to make a decision, to discriminate between good and bad or between good and best. Some of these include:
1. When disputes arise between believers, they should be settled in the church before members who can decide the matter (1 Cor. 6:18).
2. The local church is to judge serious sins of its members and take appropriate action (Matt. 18:17; 1 Cor. 5:9-13).
3. Believers are to judge the doctrinal teaching of teachers and preachers by the Word of God (Matt. 7:15-20; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Jn. 4:1).
4. Christians have to discern if others are believers in order to obey Pauls command in 2 Corinthians 6:14.
5. Those in the church must judge which men have the qualifications necessary for elders and deacons (1 Tim. 3:1-13).
6. We have to discern which people are unruly, faint hearted, weak, etc., and treat them according to the instructions in the Bible (e.g., 1 Thess. 5:14).
7:2 Jesus warned that unrighteous judgment would be repaid in kind: “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged. This principle of reaping what we sow is built into all human life and affairs. Mark applies the principle to our appropriation of the Word (4:24) and Luke applies it to our liberality in giving (6:38).
7:35 Jesus exposed our tendency to see a small fault in someone else while ignoring the same fault in ourselves. He purposely exaggerated the situation (using a figure of speech known as hyperbole) to drive home the point. Someone with a plank in his eye often finds fault with the speck in the eye of another, not even noticing his own condition. It is hypocritical to suppose that we could help someone with a fault when we ourselves have a greater fault. We must remedy our own faults before criticizing them in others.
7:6 Verse 6 proves that Jesus did not intend to forbid every kind of judgment. He warned His disciples not to give holy things to dogs or to cast ... pearls before swine . Under the Mosaic Law dogs and swine were unclean animals and here the terms are used to depict wicked people. When we meet vicious people who treat divine truths with utter contempt and respond to our preaching of the claims of Christ with abuse and violence, we are not obligated to continue to share the gospel with them. To press the matter only brings increased condemnation to the offenders.
So to summarize;
What was Jesus calling for when He ordered His followers to “judge not? Did He want us to close our eyes to error and evil? Did He intend that managers forgo critical performance reviews of their employees? Or that news editors and art critics pull their punches? Or that juries refrain from judgment? Should we decline any assessment of others, since none of us is perfect?
No, those would all be mis applications of Jesus teaching. In the first place, He was not commanding blind acceptance, but grace toward others. Since all of us are sinners, we need to stop bothering with the failings of others and start attending to serious issues of our own. His words here extend His earlier expose of hypocrisy. Don't blame or put down others while excusing or exalting yourself, Jesus was saying.
Is there room, then, to assess others, especially when we know we are not perfect? Yes, but only in Jesus way: with empathy and fairness, and with a readiness to freely and fully forgive. When we are called upon to correct others, we should act like a good doctor whose purpose is to bring healing not like an enemy who attacks.
like JM, I too am looking forward to reading and studing your verses.
C
carey
Guest
Re: hmmm
I merely pointed out that I have never heard any of these preach a lie that I can remember.
Do you know of any preacher that preaches the "whole" truth??
The bible is a vast thing and to cover every point in it would take years of sermons. How do you know that these so called "false" teachers will never get around to preaching the message you want them too?
oscar3 said:
I merely pointed out that I have never heard any of these preach a lie that I can remember.
Do you know of any preacher that preaches the "whole" truth??
The bible is a vast thing and to cover every point in it would take years of sermons. How do you know that these so called "false" teachers will never get around to preaching the message you want them too?
Lewis
Member
Well a lot of you do not agree with me' and that's ok. But I get a lot out of Joel' I really do. Not all preachers are the same' and God gives certain preachers a anointing to preach certain types of preaching. Like Joel preaches about love and life' and forgiving' and how not to get to stressed out. And how to have a postive outlook as much as possible. And on and on. And if some of you think that he is false' thats ok too. But I will continue to listen to him and love him. There is not one preacher on earth' and I mean on earth' that people won't find fault with. I am not comparing Joel to Jesus' but they found fault with him to' and He was perfect. Then a lot of people look for something to be wrong with you. And if you make a mistake' they want to nail you to the cross too. I mean these people are looking at you under a magnifying glass. I mean people act like preachers can't say the wrong thing sometimes. These people are humans' meaning they are not perfect. And I am not saying that Joel said something wrong. I am just talking about how people are. Oh and let me not forget to mention' how people will make stuff up on you. And put it out there too. It's like T.D. Jakes said' Christians can be some of the worst people on the planet.
C
carey
Guest
BIG SMILE
I agree with you .
Just love everyone and forgive. :angel:
Lewis W said:
I agree with you .
Just love everyone and forgive. :angel:
reply
Many don't like Word of Faith preachers because I guess they have something that others don't have. I perceive the big problem is that many Christians just don't understand faith and how it operates in a believers life. I have heard it said that when their is tremendous oposition to a Ministry, the devil likes that. Joel is one fine Christian who has a pastors heart.
May God bless, golfjack
Many don't like Word of Faith preachers because I guess they have something that others don't have. I perceive the big problem is that many Christians just don't understand faith and how it operates in a believers life. I have heard it said that when their is tremendous oposition to a Ministry, the devil likes that. Joel is one fine Christian who has a pastors heart.
May God bless, golfjack
Re: reply
What they "have" is different from what the Apostles had...which was very little. Ever hear of Paul? The Apostles had nothing and kept in mind there were just passing thru.
Faith is believing in something not seen, believing when the chips are down and were in the valley...what the WOF preaches [health, wealth, etc.] is not the Gospel. They preach that if you do not have, you didn't ask in faith or lacked faith when asking.
And when there is a false Gospel being preached, the devil likes that even more...
jm
golfjack said:
What they "have" is different from what the Apostles had...which was very little. Ever hear of Paul? The Apostles had nothing and kept in mind there were just passing thru.
Faith is believing in something not seen, believing when the chips are down and were in the valley...what the WOF preaches [health, wealth, etc.] is not the Gospel. They preach that if you do not have, you didn't ask in faith or lacked faith when asking.
And when there is a false Gospel being preached, the devil likes that even more...
jm
O
Oscar3
Guest
Lewis and golfjack
What is your opinion on Peter Popoff and Robert Tilton
They are WOF preachers as well.
What is your opinion on Peter Popoff and Robert Tilton
They are WOF preachers as well.