Is physical pain experienced in hell?

[jeff77]

I have always heard that the people that go to hell will experience actual physical pain like being burned alive constantly forever. But someone once told me that this is not true. They said imagine if your own child rebelled and disobeyed you their whole life and never changed. Would you even take a lighter and make them hold their arm out and burn them for even a few seconds to punish them? Then they said well, it is the same for us as we are God's children and hell is separation from God and most likely mental/emotional pain.
I am not saying I believe this because I know God doesn't send us to hell anyway. We send our selves there. But on the other hand God created everything.
This scares me and makes me feel the urgency to witness to as many people as possible.

 

[Guest]

Well the word fire and torture is written in scripture. What does scripture mean by fire and torture. Even without fire, being separated from God is torture enough. Blessings.

 

[Free]

I have always heard that the people that go to hell will experience actual physical pain like being burned alive constantly forever. But someone once told me that this is not true. They said imagine if your own child rebelled and disobeyed you their whole life and never changed. Would you even take a lighter and make them hold their arm out and burn them for even a few seconds to punish them? Then they said well, it is the same for us as we are God's children and hell is separation from God and most likely mental/emotional pain.
I am not saying I believe this because I know God doesn't send us to hell anyway. We send our selves there. But on the other hand God created everything.
This scares me and makes me feel the urgency to witness to as many people as possible.

It seems as though there is physical punishment but that it very well may be finite. It is also quite possible that there will be mental anguish that will last for eternity. Regardless of how we look at it, Jesus used some very strong language about how terrible it will be.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I have always heard that the people that go to hell will experience actual physical pain like being burned alive constantly forever. But someone once told me that this is not true. They said imagine if your own child rebelled and disobeyed you their whole life and never changed. Would you even take a lighter and make them hold their arm out and burn them for even a few seconds to punish them? Then they said well, it is the same for us as we are God's children and hell is separation from God and most likely mental/emotional pain.

Hi jeff77,

This is indeed an important topic and has been an area I have personally studied quite a bit, since I began studying the subject I ended up changing my position quite a bit since I began. I will offer my response, which may be a bit different from some of the others here, but I assure you I try to base every bit of how I understand it from Scripture.

1. Your main question seems to be will those in hell experience physical pain. The short answer is, yes. At the last judgement the wicked will be resurrected along with the righteous (though of course afterwards) and all will stand before Christ to be judged according to what they did, those whose names are not found written in the lamb's book of life are to be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. Now whether or not the fire is literal, I believe it may be and probably will be so, as it is the most common illustration of God's judgement. The wicked are to incur the same punishment of eternal fire that Sodom and Gomorrah experienced, which they did not have a metaphorical fire destroy them, but a literal one.
2. The illustration offered to you has a few flaws, as while God punishes those whom he created, he does not punishes in the lake of fire those who are his adopted children. Those in Christ are adopted as sons and daughters and will not suffer the second death. Therefore, to liken a Father's discipline to the punishment and wrath of God is inaccurate. Psalm 5:5, states that God hates all who does evil, and that indeed his is angry every day as Psalm 7:11. This might seem like a frightening picture of God, but it is the God of the Bible who loves goodness, peace, holiness and righteousness so much that he abhors deeply what is evil. However, I believe the Bible paints a picture of God whose anger is indeed great, but it is but for a moment and his mercy will then endure forever. That he "does afflict willingly the or grieve the sons of men." (Lamentations 3:33)

I am not saying I believe this because I know God doesn't send us to hell anyway. We send our selves there. But on the other hand God created everything.

This also, is not an accurate representation of what the Bible teaches. Surely it would be their actions and refusal to respond to God's kindness that in turn stored of God's wrath for them on the day of judgement, but God is the one who casts into hell. Remember, we cannot say, "I just can't believe that God is like this," or that, "well this is what I believe." What matters is has God spoken on the matter? If so, what has he said?

And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:15(NASB)

There are many texts similar to this, of course this is because Scripture is consistent with itself. In the Greek this word thrown is in the passive voice, the voice that a word is in lets us know if a) the agent is being acted upon (passive voice), b) the agent is acting upon itself (middle voice), c) the agent is performing the action denoted by the verb (active voice). We therefore see that because this is in the passive voice we can conclude that these men are not casting or throwing themselves into the lake of fire, but are being thrown in by God to the lake of fire.

This scares me and makes me feel the urgency to witness to as many people as possible.

If you'll notice one of the primary motivators it seems in American Evangelicalism (or at least what people use as a motivator) is fear, fear that those whom you love will be tortured forever in hell fire and you have to then do something about it. When you look in the Bible though, this is NEVER used as a motivation for evangelizing or seeking the lost, indeed it is the love of Christ that compels us.

The hope of the gospel ought to be the foundation of our ministering and sharing, yes we should warn of the coming judgement as they did in Acts, but notice how they never talk in acts about a place of perpetual conscious torment as a reason to believe or witness.

While I certainly believe in hell, and that the final punishment will be permanent and dreadful, I do not subscribe to the "traditional" view of hell that is eternal conscious torment in hell without abatement or end. I believe that God will destroy both body and SOUL (Matthew 10:28) and hell and this second death in the lake of fire will be an eternal separation from all the blessedness of God and to be known as ashamed and contemptuous forever and ever.

Hope this helps,
Servant of Jesus

 

[berk60]

While I certainly believe in hell, and that the final punishment will be permanent and dreadful, I do not subscribe to the "traditional" view of hell that is eternal conscious torment in hell without abatement or end. I believe that God will destroy both body and SOUL (Matthew 10:28) and hell and this second death in the lake of fire will be an eternal separation from all the blessedness of God and to be known as ashamed and contemptuous forever and ever.

I enjoyed your explanation on hell until the end then I not sure I understood where you were going. I'm not sure of what you mean by traditional view. It seems that you are saying that right now there is punishment that is virtually experience by pain for the unbeliever but after the Great White throne judgement that will be swallowed up by the Lake of Fire and then the punishiment will only be separation from God and being ashamed for all eternity.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I enjoyed your explanation on hell until the end then I not sure I understood where you were going.

I apologize for that, I hope I can be more clear in my response to this post. Thank you for your compliment, though it is indeed a description that doesn't give joy to give.

I'm not sure of what you mean by traditional view.

The Traditional view is not completely uniform in it's understanding, but I call it the "traditional view" because throughout Church history I do admit that it is the most popular and widely held teaching on the matter. It basically asserts these ideas with varying degrees of severity: 1) That the wicked are punished perpetually, 2) That the wicked are conscious forever in this state of punishment (some hold that they almost lose consciousness and become "less human" or "non-human" but ultimately they are never fully destroyed), 3) That the wicked are punished with some kind of deep anguish, either by being actively tormented (perhaps with fire/physical torment) or a deep mental anguish due to their eternal conscious separation from God.

I do not support this view.

It seems that you are saying that right now there is punishment that is virtually experience by pain for the unbeliever but after the Great White throne judgement that will be swallowed up by the Lake of Fire and then the punishiment will only be separation from God and being ashamed for all eternity.

I do not believe there is punishment for sins prior to the final judgement, I believe that the wicked go to the Grave and await the resurrection to have justice exercised on them. Therefore, the pain of the unbeliever that is physical is experienced because he is cast into the lake of fire and then experiences the second death, this comes right after the fact that they had been raised from the dead, thus denoting physical death.

This second death I believe also encompasses the totality of the person's destruction, I believe that eternal or everlasting life belongs to only those who believe in Jesus. I conclude, and agree with Jesus' statements that the wicked will perish and both body and soul will be destroyed in hell. The separation they will experience in death is not just some metaphorical reality, but they will experience eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and this destruction will not be forever happening in an active sense, but rendered forever permanent and final.

I included this caveat in my last comments to let the original poster know that while I try to be as Biblical as I can with what I believe, I have indeed come to some quite major disagreements with what is "traditionally" understood.

Hope his helps,
Servant of Jesus

 

[berk60]

This second death I believe also encompasses the totality of the person's destruction, I believe that eternal or everlasting life belongs to only those who believe in Jesus. I conclude, and agree with Jesus' statements that the wicked will perish and both body and soul will be destroyed in hell. The separation they will experience in death is not just some metaphorical reality, but they will experience eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and this destruction will not be forever happening in an active sense, but rendered forever permanent and final.

So what you are saying is that you believe in annihilationism. Apart from salvation there is no eternal torment but only total destruction of the newly resurrected unbeliever. I personally think that the torment will be for all eternity in the Lake of Fire where the fire shall never be quenched and their worm does not die.
With annihilation there would really be no fear after death because there is no literal punishment attached to sin. It seems like a pretty light sentence.
That's just my opinion.

 

[John 8:32]

This second death I believe also encompasses the totality of the person's destruction, I believe that eternal or everlasting life belongs to only those who believe in Jesus. I conclude, and agree with Jesus' statements that the wicked will perish and both body and soul will be destroyed in hell. The separation they will experience in death is not just some metaphorical reality, but they will experience eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and this destruction will not be forever happening in an active sense, but rendered forever permanent and final.

So what you are saying is that you believe in annihilationism. Apart from salvation there is no eternal torment but only total destruction of the newly resurrected unbeliever. I personally think that the torment will be for all eternity in the Lake of Fire where the fire shall never be quenched and their worm does not die.
With annihilation there would really be no fear after death because there is no literal punishment attached to sin. It seems like a pretty light sentence.
That's just my opinion.

I always find this thought interesting, there is no fear of death because there is no literal punishment attached to sin. Hmmm, being burned to death in the lake of fire is pretty scary to me. The most gruesome death I can imagine is being burned to death and that is nothing to fear?

 

[berk60]

I always find this thought interesting, there is no fear of death because there is no literal punishment attached to sin. Hmmm, being burned to death in the lake of fire is pretty scary to me. The most gruesome death I can imagine is being burned to death and that is nothing to fear?

Some people die that way now in fires and it is tragic but I think to only experience this same kind of agony briefly as you get thrown into the Lake of Fire and then it's over is mistaken.

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

Does this mean that only the devil, the anti-Christ and the false prophet get tomented for all eternity and all other unbelievers simply cease to exist?

I think all unbelievers suffer the same fate as these three.

 

[Classik]

What is the difference between a-forever-burning-hell and a-forever-separated-people-suffering-with-no-aid?

If a loving God forbids an eternal hell....how about an eternal separation (and of course there must be suffering)?

No matter which seems lighter....Is God still loving????

My point is: what is written is written - hell or no hell - there is a forever, I think it is h......e......l.....l.....f....i...r.....e

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Some people die that way now in fires and it is tragic but I think to only experience this same kind of agony briefly as you get thrown into the Lake of Fire and then it's over is mistaken.

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

Does this mean that only the devil, the anti-Christ and the false prophet get tomented for all eternity and all other unbelievers simply cease to exist?

I think all unbelievers suffer the same fate as these three.

Hi berk60,

I hope that you will take my critique well, as though we disagree, we both agree that Scripture has a consistent message throughout and we believe that God has spoken through it's pages.

I believe that your analysis fails to take into account the genre, this is apocalyptic literature and while it might suffice in a discourse like Paul's to say, "look the text says they are tormented for all eternity," this will not suffice in Revelation.

We do great damage to the text if we do not use proper hermeneutical principles and to not pick and choose what we see as literal or metaphorical, but understand that consistently this book up to this point has been largely metaphorical. To all of the sudden turn to literal depictions of punishment would indeed be strange.

Perhaps this imagery has been implemented at other times in this book and other apocalyptic literature?

Once more they cried out, “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.” Revelation 19:3(ESV)

Here in v.3 we find that great multitude in heaven is proclaiming that "her" the whore of Babylon had been defeated and destroyed, and that, "the smoke from her goes up forever and ever." Or also, in Chapter 18 we see in v.7,10,15 her punishment being described as torment. The question is then raised, how is the whore of Babylon, who is not an individual person, but more likely a place tormented? You see this is graphic imagery, that is common throughout apocalyptic literature. You will find that the imagery used to describe the punishment of Satan, the Beast, those with the mark, and of course the whore of Babylon, reflects imagery used to describe the destruction of Edom.

For the LORD has a day of vengeance,
a year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
And the streams of Edomb shall be turned into pitch,
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
none shall pass through it forever and ever. Isaiah 34:8-10

Compare the language employed here with the language used in Revelation and you will find remarkable similarities, and we know for a fact that Edom does not burn anymore, smoke no longer rises, and it is not entirely waste... indeed there is a highway that goes right through it now.

Given what I have just demonstrated, you have to think about how we read literature of this sort, are we honoring the text and the genre as it was written if we simply just say, "just look at what the text says.. I rest my case." (not saying you're saying this, others have).

This isn't a debate about who is wrong or right, it is a discussion on what has God really said, and what did he really mean?

I hope you receive this post well, for I believe the thought that God sustains beings in perpetual torment forever and ever to not only be contrary to revealed Scripture on the matter.. and also the revealed character of God in his goodness, justice, love and mercy.

Blessings in Christ,
Servant of Jesus

 

[Doulos Iesou]

So what you are saying is that you believe in annihilationism. Apart from salvation there is no eternal torment but only total destruction of the newly resurrected unbeliever. I personally think that the torment will be for all eternity in the Lake of Fire where the fire shall never be quenched and their worm does not die.
With annihilation there would really be no fear after death because there is no literal punishment attached to sin. It seems like a pretty light sentence.
That's just my opinion.

Let's consider what justice is for a moment, does justice demand the worst possible punishment for a crime, should we hand out the death penalty (the worst possible punishment for our government) to anyone and everyone? No, indeed there should be varying degrees and lengths of punishments based on the crimes committed. Also, is the discomfort or suffering of the convicted what justice demands, or rather is justice's obligation to restore order and correct a wrong by administering a punishment.

Now you can reason, as many do, that the rejection of an eternal God is worthy of eternal torment in hell. However, I do not see that reasoning in Scripture, and indeed Scripture says that those who commit the most heinous evils are worthy of DEATH (Romans 1:32) not eternal torment.

God is not sitting in the heavens concocting the worst possible punishment, from the beginning of human existence his message on what the guilty are to be punished with has been clear... "the soul who sins shall die."

Also, how terrible would it be for our government or every government to administer punishment the way some people view God does, that if you stole, you would be tortured for doing so. Even a few minutes or seconds of torture is an awful thing, and some conceive that it will last forever. Dreadful...

 

[Doulos Iesou]

What is the difference between a-forever-burning-hell and a-forever-separated-people-suffering-with-no-aid?

If a loving God forbids an eternal hell....how about an eternal separation (and of course there must be suffering)?

No matter which seems lighter....Is God still loving????

My point is: what is written is written - hell or no hell - there is a forever, I think it is h......e......l.....l.....f....i...r.....e

What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah when they underwent the punishment of Eternal Fire? See Jude 7

 

[Classik]

What is the difference between a-forever-burning-hell and a-forever-separated-people-suffering-with-no-aid?

If a loving God forbids an eternal hell....how about an eternal separation (and of course there must be suffering)?

No matter which seems lighter....Is God still loving????

My point is: what is written is written - hell or no hell - there is a forever, I think it is h......e......l.....l.....f....i...r.....e

What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah when they underwent the punishment of Eternal Fire? See Jude 7

That's a good example (also the flood)

 

[Mountain Man]

The attempt to diminish Hell or define it as being less than what the bible says it is to elevate one's self above God...this is the work of Satan who in the garden ask Eve if God realy meant what he said..it is also worth mentioning that rarely does one see any doubt expressed by people about the glory and bliss of Heaven ,we take the bible at its word on that....Hell however we want to debate about.

 

[berk60]

I hope that you will take my critique well, as though we disagree, we both agree that Scripture has a consistent message throughout and we believe that God has spoken through it's pages.

Hi Doulos Iesou, Hey no worries. I enjoy hearing different opinions that people have and respect everyone's right to have them. You know where I stand on the issue of hell and I'm interested to hear what you believe actually happens to unbelievers after judgement.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Hi Doulos Iesou, Hey no worries. I enjoy hearing different opinions that people have and respect everyone's right to have them. You know where I stand on the issue of hell and I'm interested to hear what you believe actually happens to unbelievers after judgement.

Hi Berk60,

Thank you, I appreciate your respect in regards to this issue, I came to disagree on this matter not too long ago and some believe that I am doing the Devil's work.. even in this thread apparently. However, I think if you actually listen to what I have to say, you'll find that I love the Lord and seek to honor Scripture and be as faithful to it as I can.. and I am no fool.

My belief on what the Bible teaches to the unbelievers is that after the judgement they are cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. This second death is the final destruction of all that is evil and is God's ultimate triumph over all that opposes him. I believe that as Jesus stated in Matthew 10:28, the wicked will be destroyed, both body and soul. That the wicked will suffer the same punishment that Jesus took in our place on the Cross.. Death.

You called this "annihilationism" I do not prefer this term, as it can easily turn into a straw-man, I don't necessarily mean the complete obliteration of all particles of the being, but rather the conclusive end is met in hell, so that the person dies the second death. There are however differing degrees of the punishment that will be administered I believe, how that works out exactly I am not too sure nor do I like to think about it and hypothesize, it will be terrible nonetheless.

Also, I would like to hear what you have to say in response to Revelation 20:10, of course my argument is primarily from Scripture and there is no passage I will shy away from.

Hope this helps,
Servant of Jesus

 

[Doulos Iesou]

The attempt to diminish Hell or define it as being less than what the bible says it is to elevate one's self above God...this is the work of Satan who in the garden ask Eve if God realy meant what he said..it is also worth mentioning that rarely does one see any doubt expressed by people about the glory and bliss of Heaven ,we take the bible at its word on that....Hell however we want to debate about.

That's an attempt at a Brotherly discourse, "we alone believe God's Word and everyone who doesn't is the servant of Satan."

Have a nice day..

 

[Mountain Man]

The attempt to diminish Hell or define it as being less than what the bible says it is to elevate one's self above God...this is the work of Satan who in the garden ask Eve if God realy meant what he said..it is also worth mentioning that rarely does one see any doubt expressed by people about the glory and bliss of Heaven ,we take the bible at its word on that....Hell however we want to debate about.

That's an attempt at a Brotherly discourse, "we alone believe God's Word and everyone who doesn't is the servant of Satan."

Have a nice day..

No.it is the successful rendering of what the bible says,there is no reason to believe in the bliss of heaven and not the torment of Hell....as far as "brotherly discourse" is concerned I am interested in only what the bible says on the matter and nothing else. The bible describes and eternal Heaven and an Eternal Hell,there is no discourse,the matter is settled.

 

[chessman]

No.it is the successful rendering of what the bible says, there is no reason to believe in the bliss of heaven and not the torment of Hell....as far as "brotherly discourse" is concerned I am interested in only what the bible says on the matter and nothing else. The bible describes and eternal Heaven and an Eternal Hell, there is no discourse, the matter is settled.

At the risk of being accused of evil work

this is the work of Satan who in the garden ask Eve if God realy meant what he said

, I have to ask you:
What exactly is the "It" that is your successful rendering of what the Bible says. The "it" is exactly what Scripture within your two posts that you’ve successfully render? I didn’t see any Scripture that you posted then exposited or rendered. I could have missed it, however, so please explain further.