Is Playing Mature Rated Games Alright?

[jasoncran]

well i'm fundalmentalist , what are you?

think about it the lord takes him serious and yet then decided nah i will let slide when he also says though shalt not bear false witness or lie. and slays annias and saphira in the nt.

 

[Tissue]

I'm a post-evangelical, postmodern, moderate Christian.

Surely there are acts which are sins; I'm not denying this. But there are things in the Old Testament we no longer follow.

This isn't the place to get into that discussion.

 

[jasoncran]

in a nut shell liberal theology. agreed on this isnt the thread.

 

[Tissue]

'Liberal theology' is such a mousy term. Fundamentalists tend to use that to refer to everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Liberal theology tends to deny the virgin birth and various other miracles, the validity of Jesus' sacrifice, etc. I don't fit that.

 

[GrayJedi_Lightshade]

back on the subject posted at the beginning of the article...

I'm almost sure someone else said this before me, but I had little time to read through the previous three pages of replies, but I'll say this anyways.

Personally, I think alot of things rest on circumstancial areas. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City - I played it, and the first mission, you have to KILL the pizza delivery boy bcz you're trying to prevent him from spilling some beans on some deal that was crooked to begin with. When I did it, I kinda felt sedistic. I was getting money and I had spent quite a while trying to find my first objective, and when I finally did, I felt really accomplished and excited. I'd never played a game like that before, but it just stirred something that I never knew was there, nor did I want to know that it was there.

On the other hand, I picked up Max Payne. The first one. The story starts when Max walks into his house after an ordinary day at work as an on-the-field cop/detective. His house is broken into, and his wife and baby girl are killed in cold blood in his very presence. When you play the game yourself, it is a VERY scary and horrible experience, as it should be. My heart actually sank pretty low. Granted, the man had been pushed over a certain edge, numbing him to the idea of killing a TON of men on his quest for justice and vengeance, and exaggeration seems to have become an art/necessity for video games, but I think the circumstancial area of a game is what the player remembers. In other words, "WHY" do I need to "kill" these people in this game? What's the motive?

Circumstance is what justifies the action. God's reasons for telling Israel to smite entire tribes was certainly justifiable. Capital punishment is justifiable. Flat out murder or genocide for personal gain is NOT justifiable, obviously. I felt actually kind of good killing those men who slaughtered my "wife and only child" in Max Payne. My heart raced pretty fast because I knew they had weapons. There was blood stains all over the bed sheets from my "wife's" tattered body, and it actually fueled a slight rage in me. Nothing else existed except the TV screen and the controller in my hands. I gunned them down and just to make sure, I put a bullet in each one of their heads as they lay motionless on the floor.

If thugs came into my house and did that...I'm not exactly sure what I might do. I could see myself taking them down if I could, but whether I would actually kill them or not, that would depend on how impulsive I would be.

When I say it's completely circumstancial, I'm not talking saying it only matters to the character in the game. It obviously matters how it reflects on the player above anything. Circumstance is how the player relates. Is there anything there that's justifiable to cause these thought processes to line up with what God wants or calls for, IF this circumstance were true and happening? That's the question people should be asking.

A ruthless faction comes in and invades your territory/country without qualm or querry and wants to conquer? ..Sure. Kill 'em. Psychotic/deranged serial killer? Without question. Knocking someone off regardless of motive or reason, just to put a huge lump sum in your pocket? ..Um..WRONG. Going postal to rack up score just to see how much you can kill/destroy within a certain time frame. WRONG. The game Postal disgusts me.

You get the idea.

And in concerns to the "Be careful little eyes what you see" principle...I like to prepare myself for what my eyes may actually see. What would happen if I saw a murder happen straight in front of me? How would I handle that situation. Sometimes, you just can't help what your eyes can see, no matter how hard you try. It's a harsh and cruel truth, but a truth nonetheless. Max Payne, and several other games, have taught me lessons I'll never forget. Heck, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 showed me how addictive gambling can be. I always ended up running out of time because I wanted to hit 1000 coins before my time was up. So I never gamble or buy lottery tickets. lulz.

 

[sheshisown]

As Christians whatever we put into our minds ... even in a video game will cause us to
draw nearer to our Lord, or farther from Him.

"The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.NASB Luke 11:34

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely…meditate on these things. NKJV Philippians 4:8


Have you heard the new Christian song called Garbage In by Tal And Acacia?

I found the lyrics on youtube...

[youtube:1rr5vgpf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gz3QR_0EIE[/youtube:1rr5vgpf]

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I am a hige video game fan. I play all kinds of games including M rated content. I also watch some R rated movies. Inherently, there are not issues with experiencing this type of material for entertainment or as an escape for a few hours at a time. However, if playing such M rated games causes someone to stray then it becomes an issue.

I do not see me playing M rated video games as drawing me farther away from the Lord.

 

[Armor of God]

I do not see me playing M rated video games as drawing me farther away from the Lord.

Please explain to me how filling your mind with a franchise like Grand Theft Auto, a game based on organized crime, murder, carjacking, and rape is profitable to your Christian Walk? Or pick any other "M" game based on simulations where the character you are controlling is participating in graphic murder as entertainment.

Would you feel comfortable with your senior pastor sitting next to you as you hack and kill your way across the screen? Or the Lord himself?

Also have you considered Psalm 11:5? The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Sorry, but for anyone who claims to love the Lord yet uses graphic violence as entertainment is showing an immature attitude.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

[quote="Aero_Hudson":39zoaggm]I do not see me playing M rated video games as drawing me farther away from the Lord.

Please explain to me how filling your mind with a franchise like Grand Theft Auto, a game based on organized crime, murder, carjacking, and rape is profitable to your Christian Walk? Or pick any other "M" game based on simulations where the character you are controlling is participating in graphic murder as entertainment.

Would you feel comfortable with your senior pastor sitting next to you as you hack and kill your way across the screen? Or the Lord himself?

Also have you considered Psalm 11:5? The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Sorry, but for anyone who claims to love the Lord yet uses graphic violence as entertainment is showing an immature attitude.[/quote:39zoaggm]

Let's be clear...I am not using graphic violence when I play a video game. The world is make believe. Also, I never stated which M rated games I play. I have passed on some due to content that I felt was objectionable and a bit too over the top. Manhunt is a perfect example of a game that goes a bit too far in my mind.

Now, if you want to discuss games I actively play and then claim that these games draw me away from the Lord, by all means try your best to convince me and others. Here are some M rated games I have played or actively play today...

- Mass Effect
- Call of Duty Modern Warfare II
- Halo 3 / ODST

In all three of these games you play a protaganist or group of protaganists that either have to save people, a planet, a universe or other noble cause. In some of the games they allow you to make decisions as you go on how to do that presenting you with moral dillemas on just which course you will take. Even GTA IV presented moral dillemas and at the end left you realizing that a life of crime isn't all it is cracked up to be.

This goes back to some inherent questions for me. I do not understand how someone who has not experienced or even perused this kind of media can judge it abitrarily due to an M being on the cover. Just because it has an M rating does not make it inherently bad. You have to educate yourself on exactly what is in each game before passing judgement for yourself. When you fail or choose to not educate yourself on the very media you criticize you are showing an immature attitude.

My second question is how are video games any different from movies or books? The only difference is that you get to experience the action being described or viewed in the other two media and in some cases you get to move the story in the direction you decide to take as you progress through the game.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Please explain to me how filling your mind with a franchise like Grand Theft Auto, a game based on organized crime, murder, carjacking, and rape is profitable to your Christian Walk? Or pick any other "M" game based on simulations where the character you are controlling is participating in graphic murder as entertainment.

He never said what kind of M rated games he enjoys. I presume quite a few christians would not enjoy a game like GTA.

Would you feel comfortable with your senior pastor sitting next to you as you hack and kill your way across the screen? Or the Lord himself?

If it is a simple online shooter, then yes. I see no harm in online gaming.

Also have you considered Psalm 11:5? The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

If it's an online shooter, I can hardly call that loving violence. I can understand in some cases though. Also, if your a poor sport while playing, this applies to you.

Sorry, but for anyone who claims to love the Lord yet uses graphic violence as entertainment is showing an immature attitude.

See Romans 14

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Even GTA IV presented moral dillemas and at the end left you realizing that a life of crime isn't all it is cracked up to be.

I could hardly call that beneficial though. I have the game, but refused to play it, so I looked at Guide 2 games for their review, and te end centers around revenge.

 

[Armor of God]

[quote="Armor of God":32czq9fx][quote="Aero_Hudson":32czq9fx]I do not see me playing M rated video games as drawing me farther away from the Lord.

Please explain to me how filling your mind with a franchise like Grand Theft Auto, a game based on organized crime, murder, carjacking, and rape is profitable to your Christian Walk? Or pick any other "M" game based on simulations where the character you are controlling is participating in graphic murder as entertainment.

Would you feel comfortable with your senior pastor sitting next to you as you hack and kill your way across the screen? Or the Lord himself?

Also have you considered Psalm 11:5? The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Sorry, but for anyone who claims to love the Lord yet uses graphic violence as entertainment is showing an immature attitude.[/quote:32czq9fx]

This goes back to some inherent questions for me. I do not understand how someone who has not experienced or even perused this kind of media can judge it abitrarily due to an M being on the cover. Just because it has an M rating does not make it inherently bad. You have to educate yourself on exactly what is in each game before passing judgement for yourself. When you fail or choose to not educate yourself on the very media you criticize you are showing an immature attitude.

My second question is how are video games any different from movies or books? The only difference is that you get to experience the action being described or viewed in the other two media and in some cases you get to move the story in the direction you decide to take as you progress through the game.[/quote:32czq9fx]

1) I know I've mentioned it before but I haven't been a Christian my whole life. Before accepting Christ, I played all these kinds of games so I'm not speaking as some pious Christian who doesn't have a clue. I do have a clue, and I know how bloody "M" games really are. There are varying degrees, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that it's portraying a character that's killing for the players entertainment.

Also I would like a response to Psalm 11:5 and to playing any of the games you mention sitting next to the senior pastor.

2) Video games are not any different than books or movies and I think discernment is in order. There are some movies or books that discuss violent acts but are telling a story that portrays history or teaches something about a moral imperative which are valuable. Some have made the ridiculous argument Christians shouldn't read parts of the old testament because it describes warfare and is violent so of course that is not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is there are movies and books that glorify violence with no other ends or point in mind. Some of these slasher movies like Friday the 13th or Saw come to mind.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

1) I know I've mentioned it before but I haven't been a Christian my whole life. Before accepting Christ, I played all these kinds of games so I'm not speaking as some pious Christian who doesn't have a clue. I do have a clue, and I know how bloody "M" games really are. There are varying degrees, of course, but it doesn't change the fact that it's portraying a character that's killing for the players entertainment.

Also I would like a response to Psalm 11:5 and to playing any of the games you mention sitting next to the senior pastor.

2) Video games are not any different than books or movies and I think discernment is in order. There are some movies or books that discuss violent acts but are telling a story that portrays history or teaches something about a moral imperative which are valuable. Some have made the ridiculous argument Christians shouldn't read parts of the old testament because it describes warfare and is violent so of course that is not what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is there are movies and books that glorify violence with no other ends or point in mind. Some of these slasher movies like Friday the 13th or Saw come to mind.

Some thoughts...

- I don't love violence. In my adult life, I have never promoted violence against individuals nor have I participated. Playing a game does not equate to loving violence. Let's get real here.

As far as playing COD MW2 next to my Senior Pastor...sure. I would probably throw him the controller and ask him to join me. I might also offer some tips like, "Make sure you use a good assault rifle Dave...I would recommened the FAL with the ACOG scopes so you can pick our enemies from a distance. And make sure you use the sticky semtex grenades. When the grenades stick the other guy is toast for sure!" ;)

- Personally, I am not a big fan of movies like Saw or the slasher flicks. I cannot fathom why they hold interest for some...I find them disturbing. However, I understand that I cannot make decisions for those individuals. They have to make decisions for themselves and I am sure that there are Christians out there that can enjoy a slasher flick and still walk faithfully with God.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Also I would like a response to Psalm 11:5 and to playing any of the games you mention sitting next to the senior pastor.

I would play a simple online shooter next to my pastor, as it's more like virtual capture the flag and tag than it is about raving violence. Remember, I said simple, so ones that are extremely violent and have horrible gore like chopping a head off I stay away from. I'm part of a Christian Clan, so if I'm reaching out to online gamers through that, I see no problem.

Also, i consider this a romans 14 situation. Let's face it, there are not a lot of things we would do with a pastor in our house. We wouldn't eat certain foods, drink beer, or anything like that. Yet, those activities are not that bad. If the pastor stumbles, I stay away. If not, then I don't see a problem.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Oh, and for movies like Saw and Friday the 13th, even if they were clean, I would stay away. I watched the first Friday, and I could not stop laughing! Saw has just gone downhill lately. Last one made me nearly throw up.

 

[Armor of God]

[quote="Armor of God":197goq26]
Please explain to me how filling your mind with a franchise like Grand Theft Auto, a game based on organized crime, murder, carjacking, and rape is profitable to your Christian Walk? Or pick any other "M" game based on simulations where the character you are controlling is participating in graphic murder as entertainment.

He never said what kind of M rated games he enjoys. I presume quite a few christians would not enjoy a game like GTA.

Would you feel comfortable with your senior pastor sitting next to you as you hack and kill your way across the screen? Or the Lord himself?

If it is a simple online shooter, then yes. I see no harm in online gaming.

Also have you considered Psalm 11:5? The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

If it's an online shooter, I can hardly call that loving violence. I can understand in some cases though. Also, if your a poor sport while playing, this applies to you.

Sorry, but for anyone who claims to love the Lord yet uses graphic violence as entertainment is showing an immature attitude.

See Romans 14[/quote:197goq26]

1) He said "M" rated games but then backpedaled a bit and qualified it after I challenged him. So there are some "M" games Christians shouldn't play which contradicts his original statement.

2) Same thing as #1. Most (if not nearly all) "M" games are inappropriate for Christians. I'm sure I can pick an "M" rated on-line shooter game that is full of profanity and extremely bloody and you would not play for the pastor. So once again, this shows there are limits a Christian should take with the proper spiritual discernment.

3) If you live for shooter video games, as many do, how can you not call that loving violence? What does being a poor sport have anything to with it?

4) Romans 14 has to do with liberty in Christ. Scripture says all things are allowable but not everything is profitable. If there is even a doubt, a doubt by the way many other believers share with me, that bloody & violent video games are inappropriate, then why even go there? Nobody is saying to quit gaming altogether but perhaps it's worth listening to brothers and sisters who say your not making the best decisions being engrossed in violence when our Lord is emphasizing peace and love so much.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

As Christians whatever we put into our minds ... even in a video game will cause us to
draw nearer to our Lord, or farther from Him.

"The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.NASB Luke 11:34

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely…meditate on these things. NKJV Philippians 4:8


Have you heard the new Christian song called Garbage In by Tal And Acacia?

I found the lyrics on youtube...

I totally understand the concept. That is why I mainly listen to Christian music. One question on this though. When will this happen? My Father has been listening to Ozzy Osbourne and Led Zeppelin for his whole life, and he's doing just fine so far. I completely understand the philosophy, but I have hardly seen any proof of this. Consider this passage.

Matthew 15:10-20
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' "

12Then the disciples came to him and asked, "Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?"

13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14Leave them; they are blind guides.[a] If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."

15Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."

16"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. 17"Don't you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.' 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him 'unclean.' "

I think this can apply to all situations, not just food. The summary is, whatever comes out of the heart is the problem. I know when I play shooters online, none of those apply to 19. I know you shoot and stuff, but if you know they come back to life, is it really considered murder? Plus, I'm a really good sport when I play them.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

1) He said "M" rated games but then backpedaled a bit and qualified it after I challenged him. So there are some "M" games Christians shouldn't play which contradicts his original statement.

I might have misunderstood this one. Maybe I jumped the bandwagon there.

2) Same thing as #1. Most (if not nearly all) "M" games are inappropriate for Christians. I'm sure I can pick an "M" rated on-line shooter game that is full of profanity and extremely bloody and you would not play for the pastor. So once again, this shows there are limits a Christian should take with the proper spiritual discernment.

Still in agreement. Now, if your putting the profanity on there because of the other players, then I would have to disagree. If the developers put it in there, then I agree.

3) If you live for shooter video games, as many do, how can you not call that loving violence? What does being a poor sport have anything to with it?

Just because I play them doesn't mean that I live for them. I like to go christmas shopping with parents, but I don't live for them. I like to play the guitar, but I don't live for that. Just because something is enjoyable doesn't mean you live for it. As for the poor sport, this is verbal violence towards players. Spewing profanity and racial slurs at people I consider to be wicked and verbal violence.

4) Romans 14 has to do with liberty in Christ. Scripture says all things are allowable but not everything is profitable. If there is even a doubt, a doubt by the way many other believers share with me, that bloody & violent video games are inappropriate, then why even go there? Nobody is saying to quit gaming altogether but perhaps it's worth listening to brothers and sisters who say your not making the best decisions being engrossed in violence when our Lord is emphasizing peace and love so much.

I'll listen and consider their points. However, it depends on what the doubt is about. I've had people tell me Christian Rock is bad for this same reason, eating certain foods is bad for this reason, and even football is even bad for this reason. In fact, using this logic, I can ban Cars! Your 16-yr old child could die in a wreck learning to drive, so why bother with the change? Will I consider their view points and listen? Absolutely! Will I bound myself to how they feel? Not always. Also, for online shooters, I've prayed with the lord about this one over and over again, and he said ones that are not over graphic or violent are acceptable. I've prayed about this several times, and I still feel the same response. In fact, he directed me to join a Christian Clan to honor him in online competitions. I know all do not feel this way, but this is the calling I keep on receiving. If yours if different, do not despise me, and I will not look down on you. Oh, and one last thing, I kept on praying about stuff like this not because of how I felt, but what other people told me and how I should feel.

 

[Twisted Hawk]

Having said what I did though, I do agree with Armor of God that you have to be careful with your game choices. While I do understand personal convictions are different for everyone, there are games I think should be off limits. Grand Theft Auto glorifies criminal activity. Max Payne is a series that glorifies no sense of hope. Assassin's Creed says that Christianity is nothing more than a myth. I can't think of other examples out there, but I know they do exist. Just make sure you know what your playing.

Whatever side you are on the issue, consider this source

Is a Christian Allowed to...?
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/mi-005.html

I think this is a great article about this forum topic.

 

[GrayJedi_Lightshade]

[quote="Aero_Hudson":3ga7h0bm]I do not see me playing M rated video games as drawing me farther away from the Lord.

Please explain to me how filling your mind with a franchise like Grand Theft Auto, a game based on organized crime, murder, carjacking, and rape is profitable to your Christian Walk? Or pick any other "M" game based on simulations where the character you are controlling is participating in graphic murder as entertainment.

Would you feel comfortable with your senior pastor sitting next to you as you hack and kill your way across the screen? Or the Lord himself?

Also have you considered Psalm 11:5? The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his soul hates.

Sorry, but for anyone who claims to love the Lord yet uses graphic violence as entertainment is showing an immature attitude.[/quote:3ga7h0bm]

To Armor of God:
Okay, buddy. Several things here. One, you should read what I posted earlier just one page ago. Secondly, after reading what I have written, consider this:

I read what Twisted Hawk wrote, and I will concur. I have pondered the idea of playing M rated games much like I have pondered the idea of wathcing rated R movies. However..ever since Passion of the Christ came out, MANY people have had to fricking swallow their arguments down their throats, because NOW they can't say anything that all rated R movies are bad. Lemme ask YOU something. Would you sit down and watch the bloody, brutal beating of Jesus next to your senior pastor? Of course you would. I have. Why? Because it actually happened, it's meaningful, and it's history.

I'm a video game writer/developer. My subject matter is completely historical/factual, Scripturally speaking. Angels and demons fighting each other for the contending of human souls. ...Sounds violent, doesn't it? Well, it is. Don't get me wrong. The amount of blood and violence will not be nearly grotesque and exaggerated as it is in God of War or Devil May Cry..but I do want sword wounds looking realistic. No, you will not play as demons, ever. You fight for windows of perception to be opened for your charge (the human you're assigned to). Heck, you even have to use a Bible or Strong's Concordance to gain access to new areas or better weaponry. Now...tell me...is THIS a game you wouldn't mind your pastor seeing you play, even if it had an "M" Rating? Heck, the Passion of the Christ is rated R, but no one cares!! My pastor would probably help me in solving the puzzles in the game, get further, and get more weapons in the game so I can banish/slay MORE demons!

Like I said before, it's completely circumstancial.

I seriously think that even you would enjoy the story, the characters, and the artwork that will go into my project. If you wouldn't, then you're entitled to your opinion, however I seriously don't see a way around my argument.

Eat your words, mate. Lemme hear that nice big GULP at the end of your meal...