Is Rape just relatively wrong? Or ABSOLUTELY WRONG?

[happyjoy]

So your saying rape is against the woman first and foremost....Correct? It's about her. Also your saying rape was wrong then and it's wrong now, but it's just more wrong now? ....Is that right?

Rape is a crime against the woman first and foremost.

I don't participate in discussions with gotcha style questions. If you want to have a discussion let's have one. You didn't respond to my point. Is a traffic ticket and armed robbery morally equivalent?

But, you "gotcha-ed" yourself. You are saying rape is wrong. I say it's wrong. God says it's wrong, the preacher in the OP video said it's wrong. So aren't we having a discussion about moral relativism? Aren't you trying to support moral relativism? How can you do that if you are agreeing with Moral absolute?

I do not agree rape is a moral absolute. In biblical times rape was a crime against men. In modern times rape is a crime against women. Also, the punishment for rape is much more harsh now than then. Same act but different victim and different punishment equals moral relativism.

 

[happyjoy]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

 

[Danus]

I do not agree rape is a moral absolute.

OK, but you've not proven or even made a point that it's not. You have presented no evidence to support your belief.

In biblical times rape was a crime against men. In modern times rape is a crime against women.

You're totally unequivocally wrong on this; have not proven it and have not presented evidence to back up what your saying. You only have a theory, assumption, or general belief. that's it.

Also, the punishment for rape is much more harsh now than then. Same act but different victim and different punishment equals moral relativism.

I can show you in the bible where men where killed for the raping of one women. The punishment is not the issue. What is the issue is if rape is right or wrong. Bible says wrong. we still say it's wrong. You show me one example where rape is accepted in the bible. you can't.

 

[Danus]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

God never endorsed polygamy so once again God's law prove absolute.

Question, would you say this statement is true: "there are no absolutes." True or False?

 

[happyjoy]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

God never endorsed polygamy so once again God's law prove absolute.

Question, would you say this statement is true: "there are no absolutes." True or False?

There are no moral absolutes. You can bla bla bla as much as you want, but women are no longer property, and rape is a crime against women and not men

 

[Nick]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

God never endorsed polygamy so once again God's law prove absolute.

Question, would you say this statement is true: "there are no absolutes." True or False?

There are no moral absolutes. You can bla bla bla as much as you want, but women are no longer property, and rape is a crime against women and not men

So if a woman rapes a man, then it is not a crime?

 

[jasoncran]

Nick, i want to her her answer to that. and legaly its a crime. It does so happen men do get raped by women.

i have been sexualy asaulted by a man.
note: not raped
i'm using the military term for it. it means unwanted touching.i never reported that crap. so i do know that men are assaulted by women.

 

[Danus]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

God never endorsed polygamy so once again God's law prove absolute.

Question, would you say this statement is true: "there are no absolutes." True or False?

There are no moral absolutes. You can bla bla bla as much as you want, but women are no longer property, and rape is a crime against women and not men

You seem absolutely confident in your belief that there are no absolutes; as apposed to relatively confident.

 

[happyjoy]

So if a woman rapes a man, then it is not a crime?

Of course it is a crime.

 

[happyjoy]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

God never endorsed polygamy so once again God's law prove absolute.

Exodus 21:10

Deuteronomy 21:15

 

[happyjoy]

In biblical times rape was a crime against men. In modern times rape is a crime against women.

You're totally unequivocally wrong on this; have not proven it and have not presented evidence to back up what your saying. You only have a theory, assumption, or general belief. that's it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape

In ancient history, rape was viewed less as a type of assault on the female, than a serious property crime against the man to whom she belonged, typically the father or husband. The loss of virginity was an especially serious matter. The damage due to loss of virginity was reflected in her reduced prospects in finding a husband and in her bride price.

 

[Danus]

In biblical times rape was a crime against men. In modern times rape is a crime against women.

You're totally unequivocally wrong on this; have not proven it and have not presented evidence to back up what your saying. You only have a theory, assumption, or general belief. that's it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape

In ancient history, rape was viewed less as a type of assault on the female, than a serious property crime against the man to whom she belonged, typically the father or husband. The loss of virginity was an especially serious matter. The damage due to loss of virginity was reflected in her reduced prospects in finding a husband and in her bride price.

And again, rape was wrong then and it's wrong now. I think you are wanting to talk about woman's rights. We where talking about Moral relativism vs Moral absolutes and you said God's morals where relative not absolute, but you keep slipping into other topics like punishment for rape or the social rights of men and women. However none of that defines God's moral law as relative. The punishment can be relative. The rights of the victim can be relative, but relative to what? God's absolute moral standard. In this case Rape. Rape was morally wrong then and it's morally wrong today. It;s not more morally wrong today. It's just as morally wrong today as it was then. The punishment for it or how we view the victim does not change the absolute wrong of rape.

 

[happyjoy]

And again, rape was wrong then and it's wrong now. I think you are wanting to talk about woman's rights. We where talking about Moral relativism vs Moral absolutes and you said God's morals where relative not absolute, but you keep slipping into other topics like punishment for rape or the social rights of men and women. However none of that defines God's moral law as relative. The punishment can be relative. The rights of the victim can be relative, but relative to what? God's absolute moral standard. In this case Rape. Rape was morally wrong then and it's morally wrong today. It;s not more morally wrong today. It's just as morally wrong today as it was then. The punishment for it or how we view the victim does not change the absolute wrong of rape.

Different punishment different victim same circumstances equal moral relativism.

 

[Danus]

And again, rape was wrong then and it's wrong now. I think you are wanting to talk about woman's rights. We where talking about Moral relativism vs Moral absolutes and you said God's morals where relative not absolute, but you keep slipping into other topics like punishment for rape or the social rights of men and women. However none of that defines God's moral law as relative. The punishment can be relative. The rights of the victim can be relative, but relative to what? God's absolute moral standard. In this case Rape. Rape was morally wrong then and it's morally wrong today. It;s not more morally wrong today. It's just as morally wrong today as it was then. The punishment for it or how we view the victim does not change the absolute wrong of rape.

Different punishment different victim same circumstances equal moral relativism.

Relative punishment, relative victim same circumstance equal wrong because of it's moral absolute.

 

[Danus]

Also, polygamy is immoral today, but was acceptable in biblical times. What changed? Our morals changed.

God never endorsed polygamy so once again God's law prove absolute.

Exodus 21:10


Deuteronomy 21:15

Exodus 21:10 and Deuteronomy 21:15
These verses do not say go marry multiple wives. They speak of the condition of those that do. It does not say do it; it says what to do IF you do it. Polygamy is not a God commandment. It's a guy thing not a God thing. Try again.

 

[Nick]

So if a woman rapes a man, then it is not a crime?

Of course it is a crime.

Then please explain to me what you were saying when you said:

There are no moral absolutes. You can bla bla bla as much as you want, but women are no longer property, and rape is a crime against women and not men

You seem to say that ABSOLUTELY that everything is RELATIVE, yet you don't tolerate the view that everything is absolute, therefore your view that everything is relative is being used in an ABSOLUTE way? Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

 

[logical bob]

God is where this absolute morality comes from.

Yes, but that's the difficult bit. Whatever spin you put on the Abraham/Isaac story, it's wrong to demand someone prove their devotion to you by being willing to murder their own child.

If God is the source of absolute morality then those who folow his orders are doing right. This means Moses was morally justified in Numbers 31 where he orders the murder of children taken prisoner and spares only female virgins (and I think we can guess why). Far from condemning this, God tells him how to divide the spoils.

You can't possibly expect anyone to accept that absolute moral values are at work here.

 

[happyjoy]

Exodus 21:10 and Deuteronomy 21:15
These verses do not say go marry multiple wives. They speak of the condition of those that do. It does not say do it; it says what to do IF you do it. Polygamy is not a God commandment. It's a guy thing not a God thing. Try again.

So your saying polygamy is ok today? I say it's immoral today, but wasn't immoral in the past. That is moral relativism.

 

[happyjoy]

So if a woman rapes a man, then it is not a crime?

Of course it is a crime.

Then please explain to me what you were saying when you said:

There are no moral absolutes. You can bla bla bla as much as you want, but women are no longer property, and rape is a crime against women and not men

The rape of a woman is a crime against the woman not her father or husband. The rape of a man would be a crime against the man not his mother or wife.

 

[happyjoy]

Different punishment different victim same circumstances equal moral relativism.

Relative punishment, relative victim same circumstance equal wrong because of it's moral absolute.

Relative punishment, relative victim, but moral absolute. You just have too much pride to have an open mind because that is the silliest argument I think I have ever heard.