Bible Study Is Satan such a bad guy?

[HeWillReturn]

********Note: The subject is "IS Satan such a bad guy?" NOT "was Satan such a bad guy?" So Satan today NOT Satan of yesterday.

Every Christian knows that Satan to this day plays with man and trys to lead him to temptation. Do they really or do they just think that they know? I was reading this article talking about Satan. I was really skeptical as the initial idea sounds ridiculous.

Anyways the question that this article concerns is the following:

Just because Satan is damned does that mean that he HAS to do mean things to humans or even cares about it at all anymore?

However, even though it kind of scares me, a lot of it makes good common sense too. Here is the website.

http://www.knowtherealgod.com/Who_is_Satan_.html

Maybe most people assume too much about what God says that he never was telling us.

If I am going down the wrong path PLEASE HELP ME! because this is actually starting to make sense now. I am going to bring some of these questions to our next bible study session and I would really like to have some discussion before I dive in to something I'm not ready for. Thank all of you for your help!

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Re: Is Satan a such a bad guy?

If I am going down the wrong path PLEASE HELP ME! because this is actually starting to make sense now. I am going to bring some of these questions to our next bible study session and I would really like to have some discussion before I dive in to something I'm not ready for. Thank all of you for your help!

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:

Jesus Christ left heaven, walked this sinful earth, was beaten, spit on, had a crown of thorns put on his head, and nails driven into his feet and hands. He was nailed to a cross and hung there to pay for our sin. Sin that would not be if not for what satan has done.

Perhaps it would help if you were to rent the video "The Passion of The Christ" and take a look at what Jesus went through. Then ask yourself your question again.

 

[Atonement]

Good Point Little Angel

 

[HeWillReturn]

Satan Did horrible things

Yes, very true but no Christian argues that the devil was evil and did horrible things.

This article questions wether the temptation of today really is poisioned bait by Satan or is it just Christians interpreting something that God never meant to say? Before we knew the earth is round Christians used to think the earth flat. Now people argue that the bible says just the opposite. Maybe this is a similar issue. Maybe if we go to heaven when we die we will find out that God never said anything about it in the bible anyway.

The article describes the idea a lot better than I can. If someone could take some time to explain why this article is wrong that would be much appreciated! I would have to put you in my book of awesome people.

 

[Atonement]

:smt017 You kinda lost me there on that response HWR.. Care to elaborate a little more for me please?

 

[TanNinety]

Could the Devil (although unrepented) realize that he was wrong and feel guilty for the sins he had committed.

I see more of a human opinion to reach the above conclusion in the article you have provided than much of any scriptural basis, HeWillReturn.

Revelation is the last book of the bible. So lets see what it has to say about if the devil is feeling guilty.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war

See any feelings of guilty from the above scripture evident from the devil?

Revelation 20:3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he would be released again for a little while.

For a 1000 years, the millennial kingdom that is going to be setup, Satan has nothing better to do but be locked up and think about what he has done throughout his life. Think he repented and felt guilty in these 1000 years of “free time†he had to think about things? Lets see

Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years end, Satan will be let out of his prison. 8 He will go out to deceive the nations from every corner of the earth, which are called Gog and Magog. He will gather them together for battle-a mighty host, as numberless as sand along the shore.

Hardly any actions of a being that is feeling guilty for the sins that were committed.

If I am going down the wrong path PLEASE HELP ME!

If this is sincere a call for help, then hope I have pointed you in the right direction.

Men constantly might not need help from satan and his minions to be evil, that doesn't take away from the wickedness of satan himself.

 

[Atonement]

Very good post Tan.

 

[Solo]

********Note: The subject is "IS Satan such a bad guy?" NOT "was Satan such a bad guy?" So Satan today NOT Satan of yesterday.

Every Christian knows that Satan to this day plays with man and trys to lead him to temptation. Do they really or do they just think that they know? I was reading this article talking about Satan. I was really skeptical as the initial idea sounds ridiculous.

Anyways the question that this article concerns is the following:

Just because Satan is damned does that mean that he HAS to do mean things to humans or even cares about it at all anymore?

However, even though it kind of scares me, a lot of it makes good common sense too. Here is the website.

http://www.knowtherealgod.com/Who_is_Satan_.html

Maybe most people assume too much about what God says that he never was telling us.

If I am going down the wrong path PLEASE HELP ME! because this is actually starting to make sense now. I am going to bring some of these questions to our next bible study session and I would really like to have some discussion before I dive in to something I'm not ready for. Thank all of you for your help!

Do you believe that God is all knowing?
Did God know that satan was going to fall?
Did God know that Jesus was going to be crucified for the sins of mankind before the creation?

 

[HeWillReturn]

If this is sincere a call for help, then hope I have pointed you in the right direction.

Men constantly might not need help from satan and his minions to be evil, that doesn't take away from the wickedness of satan himself.

TanNinety, you have definitely joined by book of awesome people! However, I still have some questions on my mind, as now the question narrows:

God says that the Devil "will go out to deceive the nations from every corner of the earth"

What if the Devil decides he doesn't want to deceive the nations of the world because that is what God says that he is going to do? Would that make God's prophecy wrong? Or, does the Devil lack free will? They sound like silly statments, however I do not see any viable alternatives.

God can't be wrong, but maybe it was a prediction, reverse psychology on the Devil perhaps? But if the Devil lacks free will would God not have to control it to fulfill his strange and mysterious plans?

Am I nutts?

Thanks everyone
PS I hope this cleared everything up for Atonement

 

[HeWillReturn]

First of all, I believe that what the bible says is God's word. I further believe that God is all-powerful and all-knowing at least compared to us.

Do you believe that God is all knowing?

The website makes a good point on why would a merciful God would make a world if He knew that every man woman and child would require (to be just) an eternity of damnation? If God knew where free will would lead then coud He not have just made Noah's family so he would not have to drown the world?

http://www.knowtherealgod.com/All_Knowing_God.html

Did God know that satan was going to fall?

The devil obviously didn't think that God knew, or He thought that God wasn't all-powerful or he wouldn't have tried so the question remains.

Did God know that Jesus was going to be crucified for the sins of mankind before the creation?

I know that God knew that Jesus was going to be crucified for the sins of mankind at some point. God is nearly all-powerful and Jesus is God (part of the holy trinity). If it is his will to do something of course he can do it. Did God decide Jesus' sacrifice was worth the creation of man? I don't know.

I know I am being a critical but maybe if Muslims, Mormons, and Jews were more objective in their holy books maybe they could come to know God themselves and have a chance at salvation. We do share a large part of scripture. It might not hurt to be a little more objective ourselves.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

... Do they really or do they just think that they know?
... does that mean that he HAS to do mean things to humans or even cares
... Maybe most people assume too much about what God says
... If I am going down the wrong path PLEASE HELP ME!

... no Christian argues that the devil was evil and did horrible things.
... or is it just Christians interpreting something that God never meant to say?
...Maybe
... Maybe if

... I still have some questions
... What if the Devil decides he doesn't want to deceive the nations of the world because that is what God says that he is going to do?
... Would that make God's prophecy wrong?
... does the Devil lack free will?
They sound like silly statments, however I do not see any viable alternatives.
... God can't be wrong, but maybe
... reverse psychology on the Devil perhaps?
... But if
... Am I nutts?

If ~ maybe ~ if ~ maybe ~ if ~ maybe ~ if ~ maybe ~ if ~
I think I see a pattern here. Kind of like a quilt from hell.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

It looks to me as if the devil is planting seeds of doubt in your mind, just as he did with Eve in the garden.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said......?
He has you doubting God, and thinking that he is a good guy. You need to rebuke him, and ask God to help you get rid of these lies. Your questions are some how suggesting that you think maybe the devil could have perhaps maybe somehow possibly repented, turned over a new leaf and mellowed out, and perhaps God is not treating the poor boy right. Stuff right out of satanism. And no, I am not going to your posted web site. When you know that 2+2=4, you do not need to explore all of the other numbers that it does not add up to.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The question is, do you want to know the truth and be set free, or do you want to continue to explore satan's lies a little longer and let him set that hook in your jaw?

Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

 

[TanNinety]

HeWillReturn, I missed this the first time so let me get it this time, welcome to the forums. I am glad you are seeking and questioning what you already know. This will help you hone your knowledge and get stronger in your faith.

God says that the Devil "will go out to deceive the nations from every corner of the earth"

What if the Devil decides he doesn't want to deceive the nations of the world because that is what God says that he is going to do?

I think there are two things that need to be considered when God says something will happen.

First: God makes things happen that He says will happen.

“So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with Jesus; but when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water… For these things took place that the scripture might be fulfilled, ‘Not a bone of him shall be broken.’ And again another scripture says, ‘They shall look on him whom they have pierced’†(John 19: 32-37).

Doesn’t it seem odd that from all the beatings and scourging and the process of crucifixion that not a bone of Yeshua was broken, while the other thieves who were crucified along with Him had their legs broken? This is an instance when God says something and He will make it happen.

Second: God predicts things that will happen.

God knows His creation. He knows the endless possibilities of how the future can turn out given the current knowledge that He already has about His creation. I have used this analogy before and it helps me understand. See if it is useful for you to understand.
Do I know the 10th decimal in the value of PI? No. Am I ignorant of the 10th decimal of PI? No. How can both of the above questions and answers to them be true? If I can say that PI is 22/7 and I know how to divide 22/7 then I can calculate the 10th decimal with ease. What about the 100th decimal? Do I know it? No. Can I compute it? Absolutely. So when God says an incident X will occur, then we can pretty sure trust His computation of events that will lead for that incident X to occur. This is trusting God with His word.

Can the devil change his mind? Yes. Can he repent and be good? Yes. Do I believe it? No. Why not? Because I believe and trust in God’s computation of the future and what He says will happen. Hope it made sense.

God can't be wrong, but maybe it was a prediction, reverse psychology on the Devil perhaps? But if the Devil lacks free will would God not have to control it to fulfill his strange and mysterious plans?

http://christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=23410
http://christianforums.net/viewtopic.ph ... sc&start=0
http://christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=23359
http://christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=23515

Check out the above threads and these are some of the topics that have been discussed on here. If you have any views post them. I know they are long reads but carefully consider both the sides and make your mind up.

Am I nutts?

Nope. If I didn’t challenge my beliefs constantly, I would be a hindu today.

 

[HeWillReturn]

He has you doubting God, and thinking that he is a good guy. You need to rebuke him, and ask God to help you get rid of these lies.

Whoa buddy, make no mistake, I do not doubt God. What I do doubt is some common knowledge that most of us take for granted because someone said it was true.

Your questions are some how suggesting that you think maybe the devil could have perhaps maybe somehow possibly repented, turned over a new leaf and mellowed out

Close, however I do not believe that he can repent or deserve parole from hell for an inforgivable sin.

,and perhaps God is not treating the poor boy right.

God's justice is supreme. I do not contest this.

Stuff right out of satanism. And no, I am not going to your posted web site. When you know that 2+2=4, you do not need to explore all of the other numbers that it does not add up to.

If it is satanism to question whether the world is flat, then I am a satanist. Unfortunately Muslim suicide bombers share your, I know 2+2=4 so I do not care if what I'm doing doesn't add up idea. However, I do not and I do not believe that God does either.

Thank you for your advice to stay away from the devil, but I promise you I have no doubts about God. I'm only trying to understand why 2+2 does not equal 4.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[HeWillReturn]

Thank all of you to take the time to respond to my post. It seems that God may have answered my prayer on this one.

TanNinety, you bring up a good point.

think there are two things that need to be considered when God says something will happen.

First: God makes things happen that He says will happen.
[Then you give a very good example on how that is true]

I agree with you. If God says something is going to happen it is going to happen. If God says that he will not let something happen it is not going to happen. God has said that the Devil will do a very specific evil thing, but as the Devil sees his future maybe he does not want to follow the evil destiny. God has the power still make the devil do evil things but He cannot sin.

It is like when the Oracle told Neo "Don't worry about the vase" and then he broke it in the Matrix. Then the Oracle said "The question is, would you have still broken it if I didn't say anything."

Second: God predicts things that will happen.

That is my question: As the Devil knows the prediction maybe he does not want to follow it.

God knows His creation. He knows the endless possibilities of how the future can turn out given the current knowledge that He already has about His creation.

As I do believe God is good and just, the creation and then the following damnation of an entire world (save Noah's family) I believe a lack of forsight than a lack of moral. I challenge you to give me an alternative explaination.

Do I know the 10th decimal in the value of PI? No. Am I ignorant of the 10th decimal of PI? No. How can both of the above questions and answers to them be true? If I can say that PI is 22/7 and I know how to divide 22/7 then I can calculate the 10th decimal with ease. What about the 100th decimal? Do I know it? No. Can I compute it? Absolutely. So when God says an incident X will occur, then we can pretty sure trust His computation of events that will lead for that incident X to occur. This is trusting God with His word.

I can tell that you (regardless of the mathmatical example) are very logical and intelligent. I am an engineer so I am pretty good at logic too. Although I lack the wisdom of a religious scholar, some of the biggest questions lie at the surface.

Let me try to clarify my point better. Even without questioning God's computation. Let's assume that His prediction is flawless, I am questioning that the Devil knowing this computation as it is written might not want to do that. If he doesn't want to do something evil, I hardly see God making him perform sin. You should trust in God, but blind trust is not what he wants. Muslim suicide bombers give blind trust that what they read is true. Who knows, maybe after hearing the prophecy it made the Devil jaded with the whole mettling with humans that he's been doing for generations.

Can the devil change his mind? Yes. Can he repent and be good? Yes. Do I believe it? No. Why not? Because I believe and trust in God’s computation of the future and what He says will happen. Hope it made sense.

He cannot repent from unforgivable sin. Can he lose enjoyment with meddling with humans for generations? I don't see why not.

 

[HeWillReturn]

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

I do not believe the Devil can be repented from unforgivable sin. He will always be responsible for the sin that he brought upon mans' shoulders.

 

[Solo]

First of all, I believe that what the bible says is God's word. I further believe that God is all-powerful and all-knowing at least compared to us.


I know that God knew that Jesus was going to be crucified for the sins of mankind at some point. God is nearly all-powerful and Jesus is God (part of the holy trinity). If it is his will to do something of course he can do it. Did God decide Jesus' sacrifice was worth the creation of man? I don't know.

I know I am being a critical but maybe if Muslims, Mormons, and Jews were more objective in their holy books maybe they could come to know God themselves and have a chance at salvation. We do share a large part of scripture. It might not hurt to be a little more objective ourselves.

So God knows more than man, but he doesn't know all of what will transpire in his creation?

Does God transcend time? In other words, God created time, therefore, does he transcend time. If so what does it mean to transcend time, if not why not?

 

[HeWillReturn]

I am afraid that the discreptancies I see in some Christian common knowledge have been mistaken for an argument I am trying to prove. I want everyone to know, I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm only trying to ascertain how it really is. We might understand the bible a lot better if we were born in a bubble and read the bible for ourselves without outside influence, but that wouldn't be nearly as fun.

So God knows more than man, but he doesn't know all of what will transpire in his creation?

That seems to be the only conclusion I can draw by what the bible says. Of course even this conclusion is subject to assumptions. Every religion must assume that the holy text is the word of God and that he is telling the truth. You have to draw the line of faith somewhere, but I will not put faith in something that doesn't make sense like blaming my temptation on the devil.

Does God transcend time? In other words, God created time, therefore, does he transcend time. If so what does it mean to transcend time, if not why not?

That is a different question that we may never know (maybe a theory of everything will give us an explaination in 50 years and maybe not). The point is that it is silly to have faith in something where 2+2 does not equal 4. Why blame your temptation on the devil when it is really just the evil might just be within yourself?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

So God knows more than man, but he doesn't know all of what will transpire in his creation?

Does God transcend time? In other words, God created time, therefore, does he transcend time. If so what does it mean to transcend time, if not why not?

Quantum physics.

God created time, He is not limited to it.
When the prophets speak of events that they saw, they actually saw the future. Time travel? How else could people who lived thousands of years ago see events happening today?

Three times in Revelation, the Lord refers to Himself as the Alpha and Omega.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Did you really ask if there was anything that God does not know?

Psa 73:11 And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?

Are you suggesting that even if there were something that was not known by God, that perhaps someone in this forum might have that knowledge?

Okay, there may be a few who think they are smarter than God :wink:

 

[HeWillReturn]

Obviously no one likes the conclusion. However, it would be much more effective to me to hear some counter arguments instead of arguing the conclusion the arguments give.

Process of elimination gives interesting conclusions. I was hoping I could get some of these arguments debuffed.

Did you really ask if there was anything that God does not know?

Or do you think God maliciously made an entire planet that he knew he would have to drown and send to hell every living man, woman, and baby as they were all evil? That is the point; what other deduction can you make? Is your problem with the argument I bring or do you only care about the conclusion I draw?

Are you suggesting that even if there were something that was not known by God, that perhaps someone in this forum might have that knowledge?

I am suggesting maybe we Christians today still think the world is flat because no one told us otherwise. (Yes, this is an analogy).