is the bible true ??

[Sandy Zalecki]

We can argue all day long about which version of the Bible is the correct one. But I believe this is in every version of the Bible.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:34-35 NKJ

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have faith so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor. 13:2 NKJ

If you come to me to tell me that the King James version is the only right version out of love that is one thing, but if you are doing it just to prove to me that I am wrong and your are right, that not attitude that Jesus would approve of.

 

[Edward]

Some versions are better than others, but any version will lead one to God if one approaches it prayerfully and with a contrite heart. It is the Holy Spirit that teaches, not the book. The book is just information, we read it and input the information, then the Holy Spirit will bear witness with our spirit (while we sleep) and then it becomes knowledge to us.

The Lord said that His Word will never pass away. It's in there, in your version.

 

[brother Paul]

Some versions are better than others, but any version will lead one to God if one approaches it prayerfully and with a contrite heart. It is the Holy Spirit that teaches, not the book. The book is just information, we read it and input the information, then the Holy Spirit will bear witness with our spirit (while we sleep) and then it becomes knowledge to us.

The Lord said that His Word will never pass away. It's in there, in your version.

Well put Ed...well put! Thank you LORD!!!

 

[Edward]

Thank you brother Paul.

I do like the KJV because it is the first bible that was put in my hand when I was about 13 or 14. I'm used to the language in it and like it, it's colorful and not so ordinary like others. I also like the NKJV because the Lord gave me one of them recently.

 

[YosefHayim]

We can argue all day long about which version of the Bible is the correct one. But I believe this is in every version of the Bible.

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." John 13:34-35 NKJ

"And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have faith so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." 1 Cor. 13:2 NKJ

If you come to me to tell me that the King James version is the only right version out of love that is one thing, but if you are doing it just to prove to me that I am wrong and your are right, that not attitude that Jesus would approve of.

My reply wasn't intended to give notions of sanctimony, but yes out of care. Nor was I intending to debate or argue; which is what I stated. You asked a question. Questions typically are asking because they want a response.

It is true that love must be the foundation of all that is done; but that doesn't mean the importance of these things Paul addressed are then nullified. Revelation says that the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Christ. Scripture also says his word would be preserved.

While I can't force whether you should use which version, I do care to encourage people to keep an open eye even with their bible translations. And I think this is a reasonable and appropriate admonishment. Which is why I addressed the Message version. If you have several cups of milk, and ten of them have poison; they all contain milk. Surely I wouldn't want you drinking the poisoned ones! Why would you use a bible with pagan twistings such as turning the Lord's Prayer into "As above so below," along with added lotus references written? In fact Eugene H. Peterson doesn't even encourage studying to shew thyself approved.

Mars Hill Review
A Conversation with Eugene Peterson
By Michael J. Cusick
Copyright © 1995 Mars Hill Review 3 Fall 1995 · Issue No. 3: pgs 73-90.


MH It seems that it is the ordinariness that is so powerful for people. One pastor has said that he hopes The Message will "smash through our comfortable thinking about the Bible." Why do you suppose we have become so comfortable with the scriptures?

EP: I think it's partly our sin. One of the Devil's finest pieces of work is getting people to spend three nights a week in Bible studies. In other words he things if you're equipping yourself with the sword of the spirit, then you are falling for the devil like those faithful people in Nehemiah who "read the law of the LORD their God a quarter of the day.

MH I'm sure that's going to surprise a lot of readers!

EP: Well, why do people spend so much time studying the Bible? How much do you need to know? We invest all this time in understanding the text which has a separate life of it's own and we think we're being more pious and spiritual when we're doing it. But it's all to be lived. It was given to us so we could live it. But most Christians know far more of the Bible than they're living. They should be studying it less, not more. You just need enough to pay attention to God. Yeah! Listen to men, not God! Don't seek council from the bible! Instead just go by the heart which is deceitful above all things. Don't study to show yourself approved! (sarcasm)

The New Word Translation of the JW isn't the only corrupt bible.

Scripture warns of corrupt infiltration into the church

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:4)

 

[michaelw]

Personally, I can't look about me at what's happening in the world today and think the Bible isn't true.

Mike

 

[reba]

You're not alone in that thinking michaelw... lots of folks feel that way... Most folks around at the time of Jesus' earthly ministry did not not believe Him either. For me my relationship with Jesus is very real....

 

[Willie T]

I thank God, constantly, that He has given us so much clearer and expansive a view of His word in the many translations that we can compare... rather than just believing that one specific group of translators got it all right, when they, themselves, felt their own original interpretations had to be revised numerous times.

Remember the teachers in school that just couldn't seem to help you? And then, another one, teaching the very same material, showed you those identical things in such an obvious manner, that you finally understood?

Even Jesus often said... "you have heard it said (or read in the "official" Scriptures) that........................... BUT, I tell you this same thing in a more understandable way."

 

[follower]

I find more confusion and quarrels has resulted from all the translations- for whatever reason,

it's as if people knock each other out or over the head with this or with that particular meaning or phrase or rendition of a word or verse or chapter. It reminds me of when Yeshua said the scholars would strain at a gnat, but swallow a camel. Simple obvious wisdom or knowledge from Yhwh is missed too often, and truth is not sought by very many people....


Matthew 11:25-12:8King James Version (KJV)
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 

[michhaelw]

Hello Reba and Willie. As world events unfold prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes, and I think even those with the most cursory understanding of prophecy can't escape the fact that either prophecy really is being fulfilled or there are an awful lot of coincidences happening, (to a non-believer, at least those with a somewhat open mind that isn't shut against scripture entirely).

I remember well those teachers who couldn't get through to me in school, (I was a bit of a "problem child", and still am ), and the ones who used a different approach with the same material that did finally get through to me.

Mike

 

[michaelw]

Oops, my reply above doesn't have my avatar, I guess I forgot to log in or something.

 

[turnorburn]

The devil is out to destroy a persons faith in God he has been using the same pitch from the beginning "hath God said"


Is the King James Bible harder to read?

People have been conned with the lie that the new versions are much easier to understand. I've heard many times, "The King James too hard to understand."

But the facts tell a different story. . .

Gail Riplinger has a chapter in her best-selling New Age Bible Versions titled "King James for Kids". Mrs. Riplinger provides 23 pages of irrefutable evidence proving the King James Bible is far easier to understand and read. She lists over 350 examples in the New Testament where the King James Bible is much easier and simpler to understand.

In comparing the first chapter of the first and last books of the Old and New Testaments, the Flesch-Kincaid research company’s Grade Level Indicator shows "The KJV ranks easier in 23 out of 26 comparisons" (Riplinger, New Age Bible Versions, 1994, p. 195) betrays the strictly

"Why is the KJV easier to read? The KJV uses one or two syllable words while new versions substitute complex multi-syllable words and phrases." (Ibid, p. 196) She lists over 270 examples in the New Testament. Mrs. Riplinger also attributes the King James’s ease of understanding to "Simple sentence structure. . .." (Ibid, p. 204) She again lists many examples.
In this link there is a chart showing the different grade levels of understanding..

http://www.greatpreachers.org/KJV_harder2read.html

tob

 

[Edward]

Hello Reba and Willie. As world events unfold prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes, and I think even those with the most cursory understanding of prophecy can't escape the fact that either prophecy really is being fulfilled or there are an awful lot of coincidences happening, (to a non-believer, at least those with a somewhat open mind that isn't shut against scripture entirely).

I remember well those teachers who couldn't get through to me in school, (I was a bit of a "problem child", and still am ), and the ones who used a different approach with the same material that did finally get through to me.

Mike

Amen brother. There are no coincidences in Gods kingdom. I find it hard to step out my front door without the obviousness of God and His creational fingerprints being everywhere and staring me in the face. Praise the creator! This world, however fractured it may be, shows His awesome power and absolute wonderfulness in His creation.

This, I think is what the scripture speaks of where it says there is no excuse. Gods real, and all one has to do is to step out the front door and take a gander around to prove it to oneself, lol.

 

[michaelw]

Hello Edward. You're right, I think it takes a greater leap of "faith" to believe that God's natural beauty which we see surrounding us each day is all mere happenstance. And I've seen children who can understand God better than some of us adults, myself included sometimes.

Mike

 

[turnorburn]

Maybe a moderator could fill in that "huge" gap in my above post with this i tried to edit it but can't get in..

"Why is the KJV easier to read? The KJV uses one or two syllable words while new versions substitute complex multi-syllable words and phrases." (Ibid, p. 196) She lists over 270 examples in the New Testament. Mrs. Riplinger also attributes the King James’s ease of understanding to "Simple sentence structure. . .." (Ibid, p. 204) She again lists many examples.

In her book, The Language of the King James Bible, Mrs Riplinger continues her research in the readability of the King James Bible. Mrs. Riplinger documents under the subtitle "Statistical Verification of Readability":

"Readability statistics generated from Grammatik and Word for Windows show why the KJV is 5th grade reading level, while the NKJV and NASB are 6th grade, and the NIV is 8th grade reading level! The KJV averages:

less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV

According to readability statistics generated by Pro-Scribe, the KJV is easier to read than USA Today, People Magazine and most children’s books." (Riplinger, The Language of the King James Bible, p. 159

The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version

The Bible for Today published an interesting and revealing book titled, The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version by D.A. Waite, Jr. Using computer readability software (Grammatik 4.0, Grammatik 5.0, Word for Windows) Mr. Waite, spent hundreds of hours, lasting over three years, analyzing every word in the King James Bible, the American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New American Standard Version (NASV), the New International Version (NIV), the New King James Version (NKJV) and the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV).

Mr. Waite did not twist, nor slant any of the results but simply let the results speak for themselves. In fact, Mr. Waite confessed before beginning the research, he was fully expecting the newer versions to out score the "old" King James Bible. Mr. Waite writes, "Quite frankly, I was surprised at the results." (D.A. Waite Jr, The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version, p. 4) The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version is an exhaustive and serious study. It contains detailed tables, charts, documentation, analysis of every conceivable readability tests known. The King James Bible outscored the new versions in virtually every test.

tob

Thank you..

 

[Edward]

Hello Edward. You're right, I think it takes a greater leap of "faith" to believe that God's natural beauty which we see surrounding us each day is all mere happenstance. And I've seen children who can understand God better than some of us adults, myself included sometimes.

Mike

Funny you should mention the children. you are exactly right brother. Children tune into God and the Spiritual realm much more easier than adults because they haven't been trained (indoctrinated) to reject it yet. Same thing with hyper-dimensionality, two types of people can understand it. Educated people, (physicists and so forth), and small children.

Perhaps this is why we are to become as little children when seeking the kingdom of God.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Maybe a moderator could fill in that "huge" gap in my above post with this i tried to edit it but can't get in..

"Why is the KJV easier to read? The KJV uses one or two syllable words while new versions substitute complex multi-syllable words and phrases." (Ibid, p. 196) She lists over 270 examples in the New Testament. Mrs. Riplinger also attributes the King James’s ease of understanding to "Simple sentence structure. . .." (Ibid, p. 204) She again lists many examples.

In her book, The Language of the King James Bible, Mrs Riplinger continues her research in the readability of the King James Bible. Mrs. Riplinger documents under the subtitle "Statistical Verification of Readability":

"Readability statistics generated from Grammatik and Word for Windows show why the KJV is 5th grade reading level, while the NKJV and NASB are 6th grade, and the NIV is 8th grade reading level! The KJV averages:

less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV

According to readability statistics generated by Pro-Scribe, the KJV is easier to read than USA Today, People Magazine and most children’s books." (Riplinger, The Language of the King James Bible, p. 159

The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version

The Bible for Today published an interesting and revealing book titled, The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version by D.A. Waite, Jr. Using computer readability software (Grammatik 4.0, Grammatik 5.0, Word for Windows) Mr. Waite, spent hundreds of hours, lasting over three years, analyzing every word in the King James Bible, the American Standard Version (ASV), the Revised Standard Version (RSV), the New American Standard Version (NASV), the New International Version (NIV), the New King James Version (NKJV) and the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV).

Mr. Waite did not twist, nor slant any of the results but simply let the results speak for themselves. In fact, Mr. Waite confessed before beginning the research, he was fully expecting the newer versions to out score the "old" King James Bible. Mr. Waite writes, "Quite frankly, I was surprised at the results." (D.A. Waite Jr, The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version, p. 4) The Comparative Readability of the Authorized Version is an exhaustive and serious study. It contains detailed tables, charts, documentation, analysis of every conceivable readability tests known. The King James Bible outscored the new versions in virtually every test.

tob

Thank you..

Hey, TOB, not an argument, but would point out that even people who are pro-KJV don't always consider Riplinger a reliable source.
Here's a thread from another forum: http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=91082

The OP of the thread is by a member who spent more than 30 years in Japan as a missionary, translating the New Testament into Japanese. I don't know if he is KJVO, but he is pro-KJV and if I remember correctly he is using the TR as his source text for the work he is doing.

 

[turnorburn]

Thanks for fixing my mistake questdriven as far as an argument i don't see it as such.. this article imo simply points out simplicity.. at least in my estimation it does, very seldom if ever do i use this example unless i hear the comment "the new versions are easier to understand" then i have to do a search to find the article "this time i saved it"

Thanks again..

tob

one more thing..

It’s also worth noting, the New International Version (NIV), continually scored the worst, in some cases, much worse. So much for the nonsense about the King James being "harder to read".

 

[Obadiah]

...this article imo simply points out simplicity.. at least in my estimation it does, very seldom if ever do i use this example unless i hear the comment "the new versions are easier to understand" then i have to do a search to find the article "this time i saved it"

Thanks again..

tob

one more thing..
It’s also worth noting, the New International Version (NIV), continually scored the worst, in some cases, much worse. So much for the nonsense about the King James being "harder to read".

That's interesting. I wonder what caused those results, because most everyone I talk to (church going, Bible reading Christians anyway) all find the KJV to be the hardest to read and understand of all the common English translations, usually with the only exceptions being the more hardcore, militant type of KJV only supporters.

Now it's true I have found many who, like myself, have used the KJV for many years and have learned all the idiosyncrasies of the archaic language so they don't necessarily find it harder to read, and of course many claim it's more accurate (a debatable claim at best as we've all seen right here on our beloved CF.NET) but even they don't try to claim it's actually easier to read than the modern translations, and especially don't say it's easier to read than things like USA Today or children's books! I mean, really, I find it hard to believe a 6 or 7 year old child would find it easier to read and comprehend "Euen as it is meete for mee to thinke this of you all, because I haue you in my heart, in as much as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the Gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace." (Philippians 1:7, KJV) than to read "See Spot run." I have to wonder if these tests were somehow (maybe even unintentionally) skewed in some way?

 

[turnorburn]

i grew up with King James so his manner of speaking seemed natural it felt natural then as i grew older and wanted to know what something meant i asked the Lord and the answer would be forthcoming whether it was sooner or later it was and is all up to him and after all these years i can't say that I've ever been disappointed as my foundation is built on the rock..

tob