IS THE BIBLE TRUE?

[Novum]

How do you know the earth is round? Could it be through, mmmmmm.... science? :evil:

No science is required to prove that the earth is round; in fact, this was a great riddle someone had posed to me a while back.

Q: If you had traveled back in time to ancient egypt and wanted to prove to the Pharaoh that the world is round, how would you do so?

You'd take him to the beach and have him watch as a boat sails away on the horizon. If you watch carefully, you will see the boat disappear from the bottom up as it moves over the curve of the earth. Were the earth flat, you wouldn't see this effect.

It should be noted, however, that the ancient Greeks - and possibly other ancient civilizations as well - had derived *very* accurate estimates for the radius and even the mass of the earth, all using the primitive science that was around at that time.

 

[ChristineES]

To keep arguing with a non-believer after you have told him what you believe is pointless. I don't have enough charisma to convice someone that the Earth is round, much less of something they cannot see

How do you know the earth is round? Could it be through, mmmmmm....

science? :evil:

What I was trying to say in that statement was that I could not prove something to someone even if I had evidence of it in front of me. I was being slightly sarcastic to myself. ( I can't believe I am explaining this to someone). It had nothing to do with whether the Earth is round or not.
I certainly hope you know that I used that analogy as a figure of speech. I am one of those weird folks who believes that you can believe in science and in God.

 

[DivineNames]

We shouldn't believe in the Bible because we saw a proof written down in a book somewhere. We should believe in it because we looked into our hearts and found Jesus there waving back at us.

So if we don't find Jesus a very inspiring character, I guess we should reject Christianity? Personally, I don't find him at all inspiring. I mean what did he actually do? There are the moral teachings of course, which are nothing exceptional in my opinion. Other than that, he argued with pharisees and (supposedly) performed healings and miracles and exorcism (like the pig slaughtering incident). As Christians regard him as the "suffering servant" of Isaiah, it is worth pointing out that there is no indication that Jesus actually suffered much in his life. He may have had a painful death, but that is it as far as I know. If your a Christian, you will think he lived a life without sin and died for everyone. But to me, that just comes off as mythological. We don't have good sources, we have nothing like a biography of Jesus. But the guy was just some cult leader in my view, and I don't find that impressive.

 

[ChristineES]

We shouldn't believe in the Bible because we saw a proof written down in a book somewhere. We should believe in it because we looked into our hearts and found Jesus there waving back at us.

So if we don't find Jesus a very inspiring character, I guess we should reject Christianity? Personally, I don't find him at all inspiring. I mean what did he actually do? There are the moral teachings of course, which are nothing exceptional in my opinion. Other than that, he argued with pharisees and (supposedly) performed healings and miracles and exorcism (like the pig slaughtering incident). As Christians regard him as the "suffering servant" of Isaiah, it is worth pointing out that there is no indication that Jesus actually suffered much in his life. He may have had a painful death, but that is it as far as I know. If your a Christian, you will think he lived a life without sin and died for everyone. But to me, that just comes off as mythological. We don't have good sources, we have nothing like a biography of Jesus. But the guy was just some cult leader in my view, and I don't find that impressive.

With all due respect, if you don't accept Christ no one can do it for you. It is a personal decision. We can tell you about Jesus, we can tell what He has done for us, but we cannot force you to believe. Some people here are very worried about you, in fact we all are! Since you are here at a Christian site, we are going to try and tell you about Jesus, God, and whatever else the Bible says. If you don't want us to do that, then you should not come here at all. No one is forcing you to stay.

 

[DivineNames]

With all due respect, if you don't accept Christ no one can do it for you. It is a personal decision.

But we can't say that can we? Because whether we are free to accept Jesus is one of the things that Christians disagree about. If we accept Calvinism, then it isn't really a personal decision, but a matter of divine decree.

 

[DivineNames]

Some people here are very worried about you, in fact we all are!

I worry about many of the Christians around here, especially some of the Protestants... :

You know, if God ever says to me, "Why did you reject my Son?", then I am sure that I can answer him. God isn't going to win that argument. Whatever I have a hard time explaining about how I lived my life, it certainly will not be my rejection of Jesus. But what if it isn't like that? What if God says to you Christians: "Why did you follow this Jesus imposter? Couldn't you see that it was fraud?"

Would you Christians really have a good excuse?

 

[mutzrein]

Beautifully stated Christine. I will admit in certain cases, it seems as some non-believers know more of the bible than I or anyone else that claims to be a Christian.

You know the reason for this could be because quite a few non-believers used to be Christians, but this is a fact that most fundamental Christians do not believe possible.

They will say -

"Oh, then they never were really Christians in the first place" :roll:

The possibility of this is apparently too threatening for them to accept, but I assure you there are multitudes of previously sincere Christian believers who no longer sincerely believe.

Oh, then they never were really Christians in the first place.

So now we know you are a prophet. :

But seriously, sincerity does not equate to truth whatever you believe in.

Just as there are many who sincerely believe they were Christians and are no longer, there are even more who sincerely believe they are Christians today but are not.

There is one thing that differentiates a Christian from one who is not. And that is the spirit. Those who say they were Christian and are now not, were never born of the Spirit.

 

[DivineNames]

There is one thing that differentiates a Christian from one who is not. And that is the spirit. Those who say they were Christian and are now not, were never born of the Spirit.

OK, but can you actually prove that ex-Christians were never "true" Christians? How do we know this isn't just dogma that you are coming out with?

 

[DivineNames]

Those who say they were Christian and are now not, were never born of the Spirit.

If you are right, then many people have been deluded about being born of the spirt. Now if that is possible, then how can any Christian be sure if they are genuinely saved, genuinely born of the spirit? mutzrein, you may think your a Christian, but you could well be deluded about it.

 

[ChristineES]

Those who say they were Christian and are now not, were never born of the Spirit.

If you are right, then many people have been deluded about being born of the spirt. Now if that is possible, then how can any Christian be sure if they are genuinely saved, genuinely born of the spirit? mutzrein, you may think your a Christian, but you could well be deluded about it.

Or you can believe the way I do, that is person who is not really saved, knows it good and well!! It is very easy to put on a false face.

 

[mutzrein]

Those who say they were Christian and are now not, were never born of the Spirit.

If you are right, then many people have been deluded about being born of the spirt. Now if that is possible, then how can any Christian be sure if they are genuinely saved, genuinely born of the spirit? mutzrein, you may think your a Christian, but you could well be deluded about it.

Yes I am right. And yes there are many people who have been and are deluded about being born of the spirit.

There are two birthrights. One is our natural birth. We all have this.
The other is a spiritual birth. Those who are born of the Spirit of God have a spiritual birthright.

As we are born of our natural parents by their choice, so those who are born of God are born by the will of God. It is not a human decision.

How do we know that we are alive physically? Only those who are alive can tell. A no brainer huh.

So, how do we (who are born of the Spirit) know we are alive spiritually? Only those who have received the Spirit know. Those who have not received the spirit are dead spiritually so they have got no idea. To them it is absolute folly.

 

[DivineNames]

If you are right, then many people have been deluded about being born of the spirt. Now if that is possible, then how can any Christian be sure if they are genuinely saved, genuinely born of the spirit? mutzrein, you may think your a Christian, but you could well be deluded about it.

So, how do we (who are born of the Spirit) know we are alive spiritually? Only those who have received the Spirit know. Those who have not received the spirit are dead spiritually so they have got no idea. To them it is absolute folly.

You seem to be appealing to the Spirit, when the issue at stake is how you know you aren't deluded about having that Spirit. This looks suspiciously like a question-begging argument. How do you know that you aren't deluded about being born of the spirit?

 

[DivineNames]

Yes I am right.

Well lets see some evidence please. Otherwise you may just be spouting dogma without a clue what you are talking about.

 

[mutzrein]

Yes I am right.

Well lets see some evidence please. Otherwise you may just be spouting dogma without a clue what you are talking about.

With the greatest respect, would you try to prove anything to a dead person?

 

[DivineNames]

Yes I am right.

Well lets see some evidence please. Otherwise you may just be spouting dogma without a clue what you are talking about.

With the greatest respect, would you try to prove anything to a dead person?

:roll:

Why don't you just admit that you don't have any evidence for your claim? Is honesty really so hard for you?

You know what? When I talk with Christians, some of them are basically brain dead from their fundie Christianity, and yes, I am willing to provide arguments even to these "dead" people. :