Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

[researcher]

I forget if I asked this before, so I'll put it up.

Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

Peter equates the holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ as the same thing that the prophets prophesied from.

That would make the trinity:
Father
Son (the flesh and blood person (Jesus))
Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ (which existed before Jesus the man))

Is that right??

 

[samuel]

Not exactly as the doctrine goes. The trinity is three distinct persons, but all of the same essence and purpose.

Jesus is the word become flesh. But as John 17 puts it, You in Me, I in Thee, and may they (Disciples, actually all believers) be one with us. Generally speaking of the Spirit as emanating from the Father and the Son, being the third person in the trinity. But a person in his own right.

Men have been searching for the proper way to describe God as one, but existing in three persons since the beginning of the Church. And I bet we don't got it right yet.

 

[shad]

Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

He is Spirit of God and Jesus.

.

 

[researcher]

Not exactly as the doctrine goes. The trinity is three distinct persons, but all of the same essence and purpose.

Jesus is the word become flesh. But as John 17 puts it, You in Me, I in Thee, and may they (Disciples, actually all believers) be one with us. Generally speaking of the Spirit as emanating from the Father and the Son, being the third person in the trinity. But a person in his own right.

Men have been searching for the proper way to describe God as one, but existing in three persons since the beginning of the Church. And I bet we don't got it right yet.

Didn't Jesus say this though..

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the truth. Which would make his spirit the Spirit of Truth. Then right afterwards he says, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

Then he says..

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.

Joh 14:28 Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I.

It sounds like he's saying that, his spirit is the Spirit of truth, which is the comforter, and, that he will come back unto them. Actually the word "unto" in the Greek also means "within."

His flesh body was leaving, but he would come back to them in spirit in be in them as the Comforter and the Spirit of truth, no?

Col 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Christ, the Comforter, the truth etc. Right? :crazy

 

[researcher]

Also see:

2Co 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

They can't be separated...no matter how hard we try.
I hope I don't repeat your verses...you did a good job.
It's really all throughout the Word.

Yep, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God and the spirit of Jesus.
Christ in us...God in us.
They are one.
Here we see the Father sends the Comforter.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here we see Jesus sends the Comforter.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Then we see it's the Father's Spirit...

For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And our Lord's Spirit.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[researcher]

They can't be separated...no matter how hard we try.
I hope I don't repeat your verses...you did a good job.
It's really all throughout the Word.

Yep, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God and the spirit of Jesus.
Christ in us...God in us.
They are one.
Here we see the Father sends the Comforter.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here we see Jesus sends the Comforter.
[quote="John 15:26":pj44ez9t] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Then we see it's the Father's Spirit...

For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And our Lord's Spirit.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[/quote:pj44ez9t]

Yes! Thank you! It totally seems this way.

I think it has to be this. It's been a difficult concept to understand (at least for me), lol. Lol. ;) ;) ;)

 

[glorydaz]

They can't be separated...no matter how hard we try.
I hope I don't repeat your verses...you did a good job.
It's really all throughout the Word.

Yep, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God and the spirit of Jesus.
Christ in us...God in us.
They are one.
Here we see the Father sends the Comforter.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here we see Jesus sends the Comforter.
[quote="John 15:26":3qtqgdyg] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Then we see it's the Father's Spirit...
[quote="Matthew 10:20":3qtqgdyg] For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And our Lord's Spirit.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

[/quote:3qtqgdyg]

Yes! Thank you! It totally seems this way.

I think it has to be this. It's been a difficult concept to understand (at least for me), lol. Lol. ;) ;) ;)[/quote:3qtqgdyg]
Recognizing the Holy Spirit is Christ in us adds a whole new dimension to a person's walk.
I never tire of this verse.

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[costcounter]

The Father sends the Spirit in His Son´s Name, but when scripture refers to the Spirit of Christ, it refers to His character, all that He teaches and consists of. We see in (Rom 8:9) that if we do not have this Spirit, this character, this attitude, in us, then we do not belong to Him, to God the Father; and the chief indicator is unselfishness, which is all that the Lord Jesus Christ consists of, with no slightest spot of selfishness.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:9

 

[Anth]

Researcher

If I might add my 2 cents...

I believe that you are reading scripture using a 21st C western mind (naturally because you are a 21st C mind...). HOWEVER scripture was written with 1st C eastern mind. You are wanting these writings to fit together in neat logical, linear sequential pieces - and you just simply have to line one text up with another text to fit the logical sequence together to come to a larger linear sequence. In contrast the Eastern mind writes very differently - much more freely - much more metaphorically/poetically - much less concerned about definitions and consistencies in the same way that we are now inbred to think (the scientific method, etc.).

Therefore, if I may kindly say - your hermeneutic is fundamentally inappropriate. And, correcting your hemeutic will almost be impossible - unless you well understand this and work very hard to overcome your natural mind's conclusions - and read, read, read to begin to understand this completely different mind.

Let me give you one example -

Many people say that Jesus is God because He is worshipped - and since the scriptures specifically say that only God can be worshipped - and Jesus accepted worshipped (see the nice sequential, linear logical pattern of reasoning??) - therefore, Jesus must be God. Well, this sure sounds good on paper doesn't it.... UNTIL you read Rev 3:9 WHOOOOPPPSS.... There goes that theory - right down the drain. In fact, to the Western mind, this will represent a fundamental inconsistency - HOWEVER to the Eastern mind this just represents larger conceptualizations of a reality in which both statements are true.

I can go on with many other examples but it takes years of hard work to break through the mind that all of us constantly use in our grappling with reality. IMHO this is the reason Evangelicalism is so defective (notwithstanding that it is only a few steps away from papism - a pre-medieval westernized thought pattern in the first place...).

Besth
Anth

 

[glorydaz]

Researcher
Many people say that Jesus is God because He is worshipped - and since the scriptures specifically say that only God can be worshipped - and Jesus accepted worshipped (see the nice sequential, linear logical pattern of reasoning??) - therefore, Jesus must be God. Well, this sure sounds good on paper doesn't it.... UNTIL you read Rev 3:9 WHOOOOPPPSS.... There goes that theory - right down the drain. In fact, to the Western mind, this will represent a fundamental inconsistency - HOWEVER to the Eastern mind this just represents larger conceptualizations of a reality in which both statements are true.

I can go on with many other examples but it takes years of hard work to break through the mind that all of us constantly use in our grappling with reality. IMHO this is the reason Evangelicalism is so defective (notwithstanding that it is only a few steps away from papism - a pre-medieval westernized thought pattern in the first place...).

Besth
Anth

That sounds like the mind of a natural man.
We know the natural man cannot understand spiritual things.

Anyway, I really don't think your example is a good one. The point about Jesus being worshipped is that He never corrected them when they called Him God. And the verse in Rev. 9 says "bow before thy feet" in Young's.
Sounds more like obeisance to kings and priests to me.

lo, I make of the synagogue of the Adversary those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie; lo, I will make them that they may come and bow before thy feet, and may know that I loved thee.

 

[Anth]

Glory

I recommend that you do not do your exegesis via translation - that is another reason Evangelicals think in errant manners - many translations are corrupt. Please review the Greek - you will get your answer there.

Best,
Anth

BTW - the only translation that I would even partially trust is the ASV 1901 - it is amazingly faithful. Unfortunately it still uses old English which is unpleasant.

 

[glorydaz]

Glory

I recommend that you do not do your exegesis via translation - that is another reason Evangelicals think in errant manners - many translations are corrupt. Please review the Greek - you will get your answer there.

Best,
Anth

BTW - the only translation that I would even partially trust is the ASV 1901 - it is amazingly faithful. Unfortunately it still uses old English which is unpleasant.

God is able to use any translation. It's the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding.

 

[samuel]

Johhn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The above verses prove that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, are all one in all. John 15:26 says the Spirit comes forth from the Father, and is sent by the Son (Jesus), again saying the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one; in one.

The believer is indwelt by the triune presence of God, as Christ asked in the Garden John 17:22, we are one with God. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, which was sent to testify to the believer. Jesus said I am the truth, the life, and the way. He also said; come unto me all that labor, and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Jesus is our Truth, or Life, and our Comforter. So yes the Spirit, the Son, and the Father are all in one; one God.

BWT - The ASV of 1901, was one of the worst translations ever. Not trying to start an argument, and not wishing one, but the truth is the truth.

 

[Anth]

God is able to use any translation. It's the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding.

On some levels you may be right, e.g. for salvation. However, a false translation is no different than false teaching - it leads to deception, i.e. your understanding of worship in Rev 3 is incorrect due to your using a corrupt translation.

Best
Anth

 

[Anth]

Sam

I may humbly suggest that you read Jn17:22 about 5 times??? You will see that oneness that Jesus is referring to is NOT oneness of nature (Jesus already clarified that in Jn 10:34 but most people don't put that together because it is not obvious to the western mind).

Therefore the results you are coming up with support a western pre-medieveal tradition rather than the Kingdom of God.
Best
Anth

 

[researcher]

Researcher

If I might add my 2 cents...

I believe that you are reading scripture using a 21st C western mind (naturally because you are a 21st C mind...). HOWEVER scripture was written with 1st C eastern mind. You are wanting these writings to fit together in neat logical, linear sequential pieces - and you just simply have to line one text up with another text to fit the logical sequence together to come to a larger linear sequence. In contrast the Eastern mind writes very differently - much more freely - much more metaphorically/poetically - much less concerned about definitions and consistencies in the same way that we are now inbred to think (the scientific method, etc.).

Therefore, if I may kindly say - your hermeneutic is fundamentally inappropriate. And, correcting your hemeutic will almost be impossible - unless you well understand this and work very hard to overcome your natural mind's conclusions - and read, read, read to begin to understand this completely different mind.

Let me give you one example -

Many people say that Jesus is God because He is worshipped - and since the scriptures specifically say that only God can be worshipped - and Jesus accepted worshipped (see the nice sequential, linear logical pattern of reasoning??) - therefore, Jesus must be God. Well, this sure sounds good on paper doesn't it.... UNTIL you read Rev 3:9 WHOOOOPPPSS.... There goes that theory - right down the drain. In fact, to the Western mind, this will represent a fundamental inconsistency - HOWEVER to the Eastern mind this just represents larger conceptualizations of a reality in which both statements are true.

I can go on with many other examples but it takes years of hard work to break through the mind that all of us constantly use in our grappling with reality. IMHO this is the reason Evangelicalism is so defective (notwithstanding that it is only a few steps away from papism - a pre-medieval westernized thought pattern in the first place...).

Besth
Anth

I believe that we are talking about two different things. There is Jesus the man who was the flesh body, and, the Spirit that was inside of him, which would be the Spirit of Christ.

A person can say something with his mind from his own understanding, and, it will be coming from him/herself. Now if the Spirit (or a spirit) speaks through a person, it is not the man/woman speaking, it is the Spirit or spirit speaking through them.

Jesus, who was the flesh body, would be the Son in my understanding, while, the Spirit of Christ, would be the holy Spirit, i.e., the Spirit that is holy.

It would have been the Spirit speaking through Jesus the man (the son) (Joh 6:63, Joh 14:10) when he said:

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Who will be in you? Christ's Spirit (obviously not Jesus in the flesh).

Also see:

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The Holy Spirit would be the spirit of prophecy (which is what the prophets prophesied by), i.e., the Spirit of Christ (1Pe 1:11).

 

[Anth]

Researcher

First, I appreciate your effort at clarification. Second, my point has nothing to do with the "mind of the spirit" vs. "the mind of the flesh". My point is that you are trying to create a neat logical syllogism by tying a few scriptures together like jig-saw puzzle pieces. After years as an young Christian of using this type of hermenutic (and, admittedly, it is the common hermenutic since most people are pretty new at reading scripture), I began to realize that it simply does not work. The Bible was not written as neat jig-saw puzzle to be put together by 21st C western minds. It is a body of various literature written from thousands of years ago by people with very different communication styles and cultures than us (this is evident especially in the original languages - which make it obvious, as an example, that Hebrews was definitely NOT written by Paul). Then Jesus Himself had a communication style that differed somewhat from those He was communicating with even of the same culture because He was from a different culture (see them picking up stones because they did not understand or, as an example, "this He spake of the temple of His body, etc.).

Therefore, frankly, I would not even worry about tying these scriptures together from the different books - I would read simply within context PLUS I would do a bit of textual work to make certain that this is the only reading - I would guess not in some instances. Maybe to re-phrase this - does it really matter in your seeking after God Himself? Will you be edified by it?? I have a few other interesting puzzles that I don't believe you will be able to easily solve if so...

BTW re:

Jesus the man who was the flesh body

I don't know exactly what you are intending to communicate but Jesus was not just "a flesh body" - Jesus was a genuine man just like you and I - He was a human PERSON with all the accoutrements of human personess including will, consciousness, soul, mind as well as a human body. He was not so much "fully man" as he was a genuine man JUST LIKE YOU. This is critical for his mediatorship (ITim2:5) as well as the ressurection (ICor15:20, 21, Rom 5, etc.).

Best,
Anth

 

[glorydaz]

God is able to use any translation. It's the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding.

On some levels you may be right, e.g. for salvation. However, a false translation is no different than false teaching - it leads to deception, i.e. your understanding of worship in Rev 3 is incorrect due to your using a corrupt translation.

Best
Anth

No, my understanding is not incorrect, neither do I use a corrupt translation.

I read my Bible by faith. When I come with faith, I have the assurance I'll be given the truth as the Holy Spirit enlightens the Word to my understanding. It's when I allow my human reasoning to get in the way of the divine that I run into problems. A child of faith is led into all truth, and we should always come with the simple faith a child when we read God's Word.

To claim a believer can be deceived by reading the Word of God because of man's translations is simply denying the power of God to feed His children. It would be like saying the pollution in the air corrupted the manna that came down from heaven. With God, all things are possible...and the Word of God is washed the same way we are when we're saved to begin with.

 

[glorydaz]

Sam

I may humbly suggest that you read Jn17:22 about 5 times??? You will see that oneness that Jesus is referring to is NOT oneness of nature (Jesus already clarified that in Jn 10:34 but most people don't put that together because it is not obvious to the western mind).

Therefore the results you are coming up with support a western pre-medieveal tradition rather than the Kingdom of God.
Best
Anth

Jn 10:34 is talking about how the judges were called gods according to the office they held. He's referring back to Psalm 82. John 17 has nothing to do with that.

How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.