Is the vaccine effective?

[Norman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if it was in your power to do so, you would force me to take the vaccine.

 

[Isilwen]

Correct me if I am wrong, but if it was in your power to do so, you would force me to take the vaccine.

No, I would highly encourage you to take it. Unless, there are medical reasons not to, or in Adoration's case, you live as a recluse with minimal exposure to the outside.

It was a no-brainer for me to get it as I was working on an ambulance transporting Covid+ patients and bodies and I have moderate to severe asthma. I held off a little while though as I am phobic to needles but ultimately chose to get it.

 

[stovebolts]

From what I have been able to find, it seems that this Omicron Variant started with four different people who were fully vaccinated and s spreading among the fully vaccinated.


What have you found out about this new strain?

First, I think I would be very cautious asserting that this variant "started" with four vaccinated individuals if "started" infers that the mutations occurred within fully vaccinated individuals.

I believe what occurred, was this variant was first discovered as part of a routine test for those who travel (and were vaccinated). If you look at the numbers for this variant, they are averaging just around 3,000 +- new cases per day.

Out of 3,000 cases per day, I believe they now have about 20 breakthrough cases for those that are vaccinated IF I'M PUTTING ALL THE INFORMATION TOGETHER CORRECTLY. From what I can tell, there are about 30 mutations to the protein spike on this new variant which makes the mRNA vaccines not as effective since the current mRNA vaccines focus on this protein spike.

If the variation in the protein spike proves to be significant and this new variant thrives and gains traction across the globe like the Delta variant did, then the pharmaceutical companies will end up creating a new vaccine that covers this variant.

 

[Norman]

If I didn't have multiple medical reasons not to get the jab, which I do, or if I wasn't basically a shut-in, which I am, (Addy's a social butterfly compared to me), knowing what I do about the big picture (I've done nothing for 8 years but watch what's going on), I would still have to be physically held down and have it forced on me.

 

[stovebolts]

If I didn't have multiple medical reasons not to get the jab, which I do, or if I wasn't basically a shut-in, which I am, (Addy's a social butterfly compared to me), knowing what I do about the big picture (I've done nothing for 8 years but watch what's going on), I would still have to be physically held down and have it forced on me.

I don't think anyone should force this vaccine on anyone.
They are trying to mandate the vaccine in the USA and although I do support the vaccine, I can not, nor will I ever support mandating it. I personally know individuals who will loose their jobs if the mandate is enforced.

 

[Free]

I don't think anyone should force this vaccine on anyone.
They are trying to mandate the vaccine in the USA and although I do support the vaccine, I can not, nor will I ever support mandating it. I personally know individuals who will loose their jobs if the mandate is enforced.

What other option is there?

 

[Fastfredy0]

I personally know individuals who will loose their jobs if the mandate is enforced.

The mandate is being enforced to a degree. My son is a government contractor and got a religious exemption to save his job, at least for now. My wife works for a company that contracts a portion of its business to the feds and she is in the process of seeking an exemption to keep her job.
Brandon is trying to screw us.

Nuremberg Code of 1947 – refusing the vaccine​

The right to avoid the imposition of human experimentation is fundamentally rooted in the Nuremberg Code of 1947. has been ratified by the 1964 Declaration of Helsinki and further codified in the US. Code of Federal Regulations. In addition to the US regarding itself as bound by these provisions, these principles were adopted by the FDA in its regulations requiring the informed consent of human subjects for medical research. It is unlawful to conduct medical research even in the case of an emergency unless steps are taken to secure. informed consent of all participants.
The fact is no Covid vaccine has undergone the usual time frames (Phase I through Phase IV) and independent testing protocols and as a result have broken the Nuremberg Code of 1947.

Nuremberg Code of 1947 - refusing the vaccine

The right to avoid the imposition of human experimentation is fundamentally rooted in the Nuremberg Code of 1947. has been ratified by the 1964 Declaration of H

anti-vaccines.com

 

[Free]

The mandate is being enforced to a degree. My son is a government contractor and got a religious exemption to save his job, at least for now. My wife works for a company that contracts a portion of its business to the feds and she is in the process of seeking an exemption to keep her job.
Brandon is trying to screw us.

What religion does your son belong to?

Nuremberg Code of 1947 – refusing the vaccine​

The right to avoid the imposition of human experimentation is fundamentally rooted in the Nuremberg Code of 1947. has been ratified by the 1964 Declaration of Helsinki and further codified in the US. Code of Federal Regulations. In addition to the US regarding itself as bound by these provisions, these principles were adopted by the FDA in its regulations requiring the informed consent of human subjects for medical research. It is unlawful to conduct medical research even in the case of an emergency unless steps are taken to secure. informed consent of all participants.
The fact is no Covid vaccine has undergone the usual time frames (Phase I through Phase IV) and independent testing protocols and as a result have broken the Nuremberg Code of 1947.

Nuremberg Code of 1947 - refusing the vaccine

The right to avoid the imposition of human experimentation is fundamentally rooted in the Nuremberg Code of 1947. has been ratified by the 1964 Declaration of H

anti-vaccines.com

Not quite:

'This claim that the Covid-19 vaccines are experimental is simply not true, and something we have corrected multiple times. The three Covid vaccines currently given temporary authorisation for use in the UK have been shown to be safe and effective in large scale clinical trials.

Dr Alexis Paton, lecturer in social epidemiology and the sociology of health at Aston University, Birmingham, told Full Fact that the Nuremberg Code is “very specifically about experimentation” and so although its principles would be applicable when discussing clinical vaccine trials, it is no longer relevant once a vaccine has been authorised.

She said: “The Nuremberg Code is about the active experimentation on humans, for the most part during some sort of clinical trial of some description. So when we talk about Pfizer or AstraZeneca [vaccines], we’re out of the auspices of the Nuremberg Code because this is a product that has been trialled, with appropriate ethics in place, and has been approved and is now in production and being used globally.”

Informed consent is still required for those receiving the Covid-19 or any other vaccine. But Professor Emma Cave, professor of healthcare law at Durham University, explained that the need for this does not come from the Nuremberg Code.

She said: “The Nuremberg Code relates to research, where the emphasis of informed consent requirements is on preventing the research participants from being used as a means to an end."'

https://fullfact.org/health/nuremberg-code-covid/

 

[stovebolts]

What other option is there?

What do you mean?

 

[stovebolts]

The mandate is being enforced to a degree. My son is a government contractor and got a religious exemption to save his job, at least for now.

Well, I’m guessing they will force him to test on a weekly basis and he will have to pay for the cost of testing…

My wife works for a company that contracts a portion of its business to the feds and she is in the process of seeking an exemption to keep her job.

I’ll be willing to bet she’ll also be responsible for weekly testing….

Brandon is trying to screw us.

He reminds me our our governor in Michigan. She will be a one term governor and so will Biden. I think this mandate will be the straw that breaks the camels back for independent voters that supported him last election cycle.

 

[jasonc]

What other option is there?

Do to seriously suggest jailing those that refuse and using lethal force to get them in compliance ?

 

[stovebolts]

Do to seriously suggest jailing those that refuse and using lethal force to get them in compliance ?

I certainly hope not!

 

[jasonc]

I certainly hope not!

All laws require the force matrix .

Don't pay a fine and resist them coming to enforce that .it's handcuffs and if you resist it goes from there starting with less then lethal to lethal force .

People will resist this .

In my military training we were taught to use force on detainees and prisoners who needed meds but refused .we call it forced cell extraction .tazers,and oc spray were used to get compliance.

 

[christian1724]

I said "The mRNA vaccines are essentially genetic programming fluids." I didn't address whether or not they have effect on DNA one way or another.

This is false. They don't change or interact with your DNA.

The vaccines use genetic material (RNA). This genetic material is modified in such a way to act as a message for the cells in the body to produce certain proteins. This is why the vaccines are called mRNA (messenger RNA) vaccines.

If you change that message then you change the way the cells in the body react to that message (mRNA). In this way, the mRNA is essentially an instruction for the cells to react to. Yes, it is an instruction set (program) via genetic material (mRNA) to get the cells to produce a certain protein.

In time they intend to modify the messages they are sending with their 'vaccines/boosters'. These will be used as treatments for future 'ailments'.

There was nothing false in my statement. You misquoted my statement to misrepresent it. I don't know if that was intentional. I mean, ... I think I know ... but I wouldn't swear to it.

 

[JLB]

First, I think I would be very cautious asserting that this variant "started" with four vaccinated individuals if "started" infers that the mutations occurred within fully vaccinated individuals.

Started would mean “first discovered” in four vaccinated individuals.

 

[Isilwen]

There was nothing false in my statement. You misquoted my statement to misrepresent it. I don't know if that was intentional. I mean, ... I think I know ... but I wouldn't swear to it.

It was not intentional, but I will continue to stand by my statement.

 

[stovebolts]

Started would mean “first discovered” in four vaccinated individuals.

Gotta love the English language lol!

I was talking to a good friend about mutations just a few weeks ago, and before this new variant. Here are my personal thoughts.

It’s the nature of a virus to mutate, hence the cold and flu variants each year. Now I believe mutations occur when they battle immune responses. And if this is true, then regardless if you have natural immunity or immunity from a vaccine, then it stands to be reasoned that either a person that’s been vaccinated or a person that has natural immunity can produce a variant if either is infected.

Thoughts?

 

[Free]

What do you mean?

I suppose I should have first asked if the mandates being enforced or suggested are for everyone in an entire state, or if they are specific for different industries. Do you support businesses and institutions, including governments, to mandate vaccines for their employees, contractors, and any who come onto their premises?

We agree that people have the right to choose whether or not to get vaccinated. But businesses and institutions (schools, hospitals, etc.) also have the right to decide who comes onto their premises, and also have the responsibility to do what they can to ensure the health and safety of everyone on those premises. Governments also have this right and responsibility for all those in their employ, which would include contractors, and any who would come onto their property. In this sense, they should all have right to mandate vaccines as far as business is conducted.

It's a matter of social responsibility of both the individual and society, as well as the rights of the individual versus the rights of businesses and institutions. Individuals have the right to not get vaccinated and businesses and institutions have the right to not let those individuals onto their property.

It then becomes an issue of enforcement to support those businesses and institutions that choose to not let unvaccinated people onto their premises. It is possible that there could be (or is) a law which would allow fines (or termination of employment) for those who choose to break the rules. It would also require a vaccine record for proof of vaccination.

The only real options I can see are letting those who can work from home do so, having people pay for their own testing every time they want to be on site (but then false negatives become the issue), firing people who won't get vaccinated, and mandating vaccines.

 

[Free]

Do to seriously suggest jailing those that refuse and using lethal force to get them in compliance ?

No, I didn't suggest such a thing.

 

[Fastfredy0]

What religion does your son belong to?

Christian.

This claim that the Covid-19 vaccines are experimental is simply not true, and something we have corrected multiple times.

True enough. They changed the parameters for testing and approval so that they could say it is an approved vaccine. Fauci is talking about changing the definition of VACCINE to make it fit their agenda.

The three Covid vaccines currently given temporary authorisation for use in the UK have been shown to be safe and effective in large scale clinical trials.

True enough again. They moved the goal posts to make authorization easier. Now 10s of thousands of death due to the covid vaccine is acceptable.

She said: “The Nuremberg Code is about the active experimentation on humans, for the most part during some sort of clinical trial of some description. So when we talk about Pfizer or AstraZeneca [vaccines], we’re out of the auspices of the Nuremberg Code because this is a product that has been trialled, with appropriate ethics in place, and has been approved and is now in production and being used globally.”

True enough. They moved the goal posts to make authorization easier.

I guess I stand corrected.