IS THERE A RAPTURE? Who will go? WHO'S THE BRIDE?

[Randy]

That wasn't a question just some info.
Irenaeus is the one who said it was written at this later date. There wasn't anyone else that I know of that said that. All others were quoting him. He said in his youth he listened to Polycarp preach and heard Polycarp say that. Irenaeus also said that Jesus was almost 50 yrs. old when he died. Why? Because of the scripture where the Pharisees say to Jesus that He isn't yet 50, so how could He have seen Abraham.

Well Jesus responded with His age. "Before Abraham was born I AM"


It doesn't change the fact that this future beast and his armies are destroyed by Jesus and His armies which hasn't taken place. Rev 16:15 The focal point of the battle is the Holy Land. An image is set up in regard to this future beast that must be worshiped or you get murdered. Rev 13 The children in Rev are shown to be those who obey Gods commands and hold to the testimony of Jesus. The testimony while from the location of Jerusalem, Rev 11:8, is to the whole world.

Zech 14 testifies that in those days the Mount of Olives will be spilt in two making a way of escape from the surrounding armies. That hasn't taken place and end time prophesy is consistent that those armies of the beast are not defeated by human power. And the beast doesn't rise by human power either. But by deception. A powerful delusion allowed by God after His last warning and powerful signs are given. As we know a loving God warns and warns upfront. 1260 days of testimony and the sky can be shut up so no rain will fall. And the two witnesses who were killed because of the testimony of Jesus will be raised back to life in full view of the whole world and then a powerful earth quake. That earth quake could be when God splits the mount of olives in two.

I believe in future years a temple will be built by unbelievers.

 

[Sinthesis]

That wasn't a question just some info.
Irenaeus is the one who said it was written at this later date. There wasn't anyone else that I know of that said that. All others were quoting him. He said in his youth he listened to Polycarp preach and heard Polycarp say that. Irenaeus also said that Jesus was almost 50 yrs. old when he died. Why? Because of the scripture where the Pharisees say to Jesus that He isn't yet 50, so how could He have seen Abraham.

Temple Priestly service was for the male Levites from 30-50yrs old. So the Pharisees are also saying that Jesus doesn't have the age or experience to be an authority on what Abraham believed(seen), much less God's plan for Israel.

 

[Deborah13]

Temple Priestly service was for the male Levites from 30-50yrs old. So the Pharisees are also saying that Jesus doesn't have the age or experience to be an authority on what Abraham believed(seen), much less God's plan for Israel.

I did not know the ages of the priests. That is a very good explanation for their comment.

 

[Sinthesis]

I did not know the ages of the priests. That is a very good explanation for their comment.

Numbers 4

 

[Randy]

Temple Priestly service was for the male Levites from 30-50yrs old. So the Pharisees are also saying that Jesus doesn't have the age or experience to be an authority on what Abraham believed(seen), much less God's plan for Israel.

I witness context from Jesus- not a scripture context

Like -"You witnessed Abraham?" - Jesus is ancient of days.

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

Jesus responds with His age:

58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

 

[Randy]

Jesus is a priest in the order of Melchizedek - not a son of levi but by Gods appointment. Psalm 110

(Jesus Never Dies) His appointment term:Forever

If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.17 For it is declared:

“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.” [Psalm 110:4]

18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
‘You are a priest forever.’”[Psalm 110:4]

22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.

 

[Sinthesis]

I witness context from Jesus- not a scripture context

Like -"You witnessed Abraham?" - Jesus is ancient of days.

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

Jesus responds with His age:

58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

The implication of Jesus' age, or more properly agelessness, is certainly there. However Jesus is also using the language of their argument to assert His authority when it comes to the knowledge of God. Look at the entirety of John 8, then specifically verses 55 and 56. Jesus is not what the Pharisees expected of the Messiah. So Jesus is telling them that what they think they know of God's work to redeem the world, in fact isn't correct. Moreover, the very Abraham they claim as an authority actually anticipated Jesus just as He came, and found joy in that promise, rather than the arrogant and stubborn disbelief of the Pharisees who only wanted a Messiah on their own terms. When they challenge His assertion of their ignorance, Jesus reveals the ultimate implication of His argument is that He is, in a sense abhorrent to them, God. Thus, even though He stands before them, they don't know God.

 

[Randy]

The implication of Jesus' age, or more properly agelessness, is certainly there. However Jesus is also using the language of their argument to assert His authority when it comes to the knowledge of God. Look at the entirety of John 8, then specifically verses 55 and 56. Jesus is not what the Pharisees expected of the Messiah. So Jesus is telling them that what they think they know of God's work to redeem the world, in fact isn't correct. Moreover, the very Abraham they claim as an authority actually anticipated Jesus just as He came, and found joy in that promise, rather than the arrogant and stubborn disbelief of the Pharisees who only wanted a Messiah on their own terms. When they challenge His assertion of their ignorance, Jesus reveals the ultimate implication of His argument is that He is, in a sense abhorrent to them, God. Thus, even though He stands before them, they don't know God.

Jesus testimony, to me, in this section (below) was as a I witness statement which was challenged by those who opposed Him. Jesus's reply, to me, states He was old enough to know Abraham personally from what He saw. (Age context)

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus testimony, to me, in this section (below) was as a I witness statement which was challenged by those who opposed Him. Jesus's reply, to me, states He was old enough to know Abraham personally from what He saw. (Age context)

Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57“You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

Right, but the Pharisees weren't going to stone Jesus because they took Him at His word that He was old, or thought He was lying about His age, but because the words "I am" revealed His divinity which was a blasphemy to those who would not accept Him.

Exo 3:13 ¶And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

 

[Eugene]

Right, but the Pharisees weren't going to stone Jesus because they took Him at His word that He was old, or thought He was lying about His age, but because the words "I am" revealed His divinity which was a blasphemy to those who would not accept Him.

Exo 3:13 ¶And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

That name “I am” demanded respect.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

In Hebrew “I am” expressed all that Jesus was: Strong’s - was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become, pertained, better for thee.

In Greek I am (with G1473) (74x), am (55x), it is I (with G1473) (6x), be (2x), I was (with G1473) (1x), have been (1x), not tr (7x).

 

[Randy]

That name “I am” demanded respect.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

In Hebrew “I am” expressed all that Jesus was: Strong’s - was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become, pertained, better for thee.

In Greek I am (with G1473) (74x), am (55x), it is I (with G1473) (6x), be (2x), I was (with G1473) (1x), have been (1x), not tr (7x).

Before Abraham I Am has a different context then just I Am.