Is there a war on vitamins?

[Christ_empowered]

I have no links. Its just, lately, it seems that all these docs are coming out and saying "not only is life going to give you cancer, vitamins will, too!." Seriously? I read over some studies--prostate prevention trials, lung cancer prevention trials (in current, heavy, long term smoker), and I think a few others--and I was scared. I mean, I do Orthomolecular Medicine. Its worked *so* well for me, and all OM consists of is a combo of (sometimes extremely) high dose vitamins, plus other stuff (amino acids, botanicals, pharmaceuticals) if you need/want them.

Then I read info on sites that were more critical of the studies. Turns out...methodology wasn't that great. The forms of the vitamins used (for many supplements, there are multiple forms of the same vitamin, usually synthetics vs natural forms), so on and so forth...

...so, it made me wonder: is the medical establishment trying to tighten their grip on all of us by scaring us off of (and probably then pushing for regulation of) vitamin supplements? I know, sounds paranoid. I get that. But seriously: medicine has become such a big business. I know everybody likes to blame Big Pharma for everything, but I suspect there's something about the medical establishment, especially as its taken form these days, that lends itself well to rigid thinking and power grabs.

What do you all think? By "you all," I largely mean Tim. Anyone and everyone else can join in the convo, though. This is just a thought I had on my mind today, while aimlessly surfing the forum.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I have no links. Its just, lately, it seems that all these docs are coming out and saying "not only is life going to give you cancer, vitamins will, too!." Seriously? I read over some studies--prostate prevention trials, lung cancer prevention trials (in current, heavy, long term smoker), and I think a few others--and I was scared. I mean, I do Orthomolecular Medicine. Its worked *so* well for me, and all OM consists of is a combo of (sometimes extremely) high dose vitamins, plus other stuff (amino acids, botanicals, pharmaceuticals) if you need/want them.

Then I read info on sites that were more critical of the studies. Turns out...methodology wasn't that great. The forms of the vitamins used (for many supplements, there are multiple forms of the same vitamin, usually synthetics vs natural forms), so on and so forth...

...so, it made me wonder: is the medical establishment trying to tighten their grip on all of us by scaring us off of (and probably then pushing for regulation of) vitamin supplements? I know, sounds paranoid. I get that. But seriously: medicine has become such a big business. I know everybody likes to blame Big Pharma for everything, but I suspect there's something about the medical establishment, especially as its taken form these days, that lends itself well to rigid thinking and power grabs.

What do you all think? By "you all," I largely mean Tim. Anyone and everyone else can join in the convo, though. This is just a thought I had on my mind today, while aimlessly surfing the forum.

I started the vitamin thing back when I was 20 years old in 1979. I had exactly the same fears then. To be quite honest, I've seen MORE (not less) availbility of vitamins since then. Back then the only place I got them was GNC, or mail-order Lee Nutrition. That was it! Nobody else had them. Drugs stores had only the Theragram type vitamins at best, and mostly 100% RDA stuff and doctors were hostile then already. As a matter of fact, the newer doctors have more open-midedness to vitamins, althought they tend to place their drugs first. And walk into any drugstores now or places like Walmart's and they line the shelves with them.

The truth is, they want EVERYONE on some types of drugs, but there's some people like you and me that won't comply, so the pharmaceuticals got involved and make money on vitamins, too. So, if they can't get their money with their (worthless) drugs, they'll at least get some with vitamins. This is why I tend to megadose --- frankly I'd worry more about the quality and/or dosage they claim it has rather than taking them off the shelves, and I figur e if I take at least 10x the RDA of stuff, I'll maybe get one or two times.

 

[Christ_empowered]

cool. I never thought about it like that. I think I read too much Dr.Mercola. I can't help it. Everything that gets mass mailed to me is all "They're taking away your supplements!" I should just un-subscribe.

That's strange, how things were in the 70s. Did you do Orthomolecular?

 

[Fedusenko]

Here is another wrench to grind in your gears... your body isn't designed to work with single vitamins that are separated from a combination of enzymes, amino acids, vitamins, and minerals that they originate from in plant form. You want a real punch of health, go to the source (plants) and dump your chemistry of vitamins.

 

[tim-from-pa]

cool. I never thought about it like that. I think I read too much Dr.Mercola. I can't help it. Everything that gets mass mailed to me is all "They're taking away your supplements!" I should just un-subscribe.

That's strange, how things were in the 70s. Did you do Orthomolecular?

No, I never had to do Orthomolecular, but I always did take extra B-complex starting back in the days I had anxiety since the stress wears one down. However, I was aware of Orthomolecular for a long time (over 30 years) from reading the old Rodale books on vitamins and minerals. That's something they knew about since the 1960's or even earlier. This is why I get upset when an article comes out tooting the benefits of vitamins, e.g. folic acid as if it's something new. I always say Rodale had that in their books 50 years ago but nobody was listening back then and called them health-food nuts. Back then they had very little understanding between diet and disease --- they thought that an illness was "just something you got" and only treated it from a medicinal perspective back then.

 

[Knotical]

This is nothing new. Doctors, who are in the pocket of pharmaceutical companies, are always saying you should use the drugs the prescribe. Yet there are plenty of natural substitutes that will do the same job, sometimes even better, than their artificial counterparts. I generally steer clear of drugs when dealing with an illness.

 

[Hammer]

I wouldn't say there's a war on vitamins. They're cheap and easily available. But, I don't take them. They're a poor substitute for eating right.

Some studies showing that high doses of vitamins are not healthy doesn't mean there's a war on vitamins.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I wouldn't say there's a war on vitamins. They're cheap and easily available. But, I don't take them. They're a poor substitute for eating right.

Theoretically.... Theoretically. But we do not live in bible times any longer. Our food has been so raped and compromised and processed that this is not really possible. It's best to do as we do and grow one's own vegetables. Probably having grass-fed cattle for raw milk and later on meat would not be a bad idea either if one can afford it or has the time. We only do the former. Our sister-in-law once had chickens so I'd eat 2 dozen eggs a week to stay healthier. But most people cannot or will not do this.

Some studies showing that high doses of vitamins are not healthy doesn't mean there's a war on vitamins.

It all depends on statistics, which I am convinced that depending how one looks at the data and groups it can prove or disprove anything. I have a good definition of statistics:

The so-called mathematical science that tries to convince us what we know to be true and experience regularly is not true, and that which we know is false is true.

 

[Hammer]

Theoretically.... Theoretically. But we do not live in bible times any longer. Our food has been so raped and compromised and processed that this is not really possible. It's best to do as we do and grow one's own vegetables.

Grass-fed beef and organic veggies from Bible times are better than what stores sell today. But, today, we have access to a full range of fresh veggies year around. And, we also know so much more about nutrition. Even if people didn't take vitamin supplements, diseases from vitamin deficiency would be a lot less common today than in the past.

 

[eng35]

Here's a good article on vitamins that adds to this discussion.

http://content.bandzoogle.com/users/cippianhotmail/files/Dangers_of_Synthetic_Unnatural_Vitamins.pdf

There have been a fair number of studies done in recent years on synthetic vitamins and quite a few of those studies had to be stopped midway because the results were too dangerous for those taking the synthetic vitamins. That's what happens when you take a "vitamin" that is made from fossil fuels. The scary thing is that 95% of vitamins/supplements are synthetic whether it's advertised or not.