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Is this herecy/blasphemy?

Is it ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    3
B

blueberry pie

Guest
Free said:
I would think that UR is more destructive as many will die thinking they will be saved anyway. Heck, it would a much easier life if I could do what I please and still get saved.

What's your motive for serving God? Love or fear? Think about it.

As for UR ... athiests, other religions, etc. don't even know about it.
 
B

blueberry pie

Guest
mhess13 said:
Yeah, and why would a missionary die to bring the gospel to an unreached people if everyone was saved anyway? Think of all the great men and women of God who have gone before us and given their life, property, faced torture and hardship to reach people with the saving gospel. Teaching UR is a slap in the face to those who have spilled their blood for the cause of Christ

But, if all will be saved in the end, why not just do whatever we want and just party it up while on earth? Why live a godly life? Why even bother witnessing to the lost if Hell is not eternal?

My question is this: what kind of heartless person would want anyone to even spend ONE DAY in Hell?! What kind of heart do you have if you are only living for and serving God because of your fear of Hell? Do you not want to enter Heaven and stand before Christ and have Him say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant. Come and enter into the joy of your Lord"?

Do we not see how miserable life is on earth as a non-Christian? Do we forget the painful consequences of sin? Do we forget the days before we were saved? How much better is life now that we know the Lord? Do we not want the lost to share the same joy of the Lord here on earth? Do we not desire to save the lost from a lifetime of pain caused by their separation from God? Do we forget that people are saved through hearing the Gospel preached, through the prayers of the elect? Jesus commanded that we go to the ends of the earth, sharing the Gospel with every living creature!

Why would we not fervently strive to bring the lost into the same place of grace that we enjoy in the Lord? Why would we not want to spare our loved ones from a painful, sinner's life here on earth and punishment after judgement day? Do we want the lost and our lost loved ones to meet Christ with hearts full of regret, despair, deep shame and remorse? Or do we lovingly wish the same upon them as we ourselves hope for and look forward to - "Well done my good and faithful servant"?
 

destiny

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Do we not see how miserable life is on earth as a non-Christian? Do we forget the painful consequences of sin? Do we forget the days before we were saved? How much better is life now that we know the Lord?
Blue you feel that way because you belong to God and not the world. There are actually some people out there who love the world and the love of the father is not in them.
We get miserable every time we start to drift back into the world because we belong to God.
There are some who love it out there, and want nothing to do with God nor would they be willing to give up the world.
 
E

Eve777

Guest
What about that 5% that hasn't heard yet? What about all those who have already died but never heard the gospel? What about them?


People who do go to hell will not do so because the didn't hear of Jesus -- they will go to hell because God is judging them for the sins they willfully committed. No one goes to hell because of a lack of information -- they go to hell for offending a holy and almighty God. All people rightfully deserve judgment -- both those who have heard and those who haven't.

God is able to get the message of salvation through Jesus Christ to someone whom He knows would accept that message. God sent Phillip to reach the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 10:25ff) because he was searching and he needed Christ. If God is powerful enough to send Jesus to this world, He is certainly powerful enough to get the right information to someone He loves.
 

destiny

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We put too much emphasis on our worth. God can raise up a rock if he so chooses, and he can reveal himself to a person without any human intervention. He's not ringing His hands wondering what He's going to do to get the bushman saved, it will be taken care of if there is no one who is sent.
He knows who will accept him and who will reject him already.
 
B

blueberry pie

Guest
destiny said:
He knows who will accept him and who will reject him already.

That comes across to me as a cop-out. Oh, well, the bushmen wouldn't get saved anyway and that's why God hasn't sent any missionaries to them. :o Sure ....
 
H

Homeskillet

Guest
We already have a thread to debate UR...and I specifically requested that this thread not turn into a debate about it. :-?

I wanted to know if you felt it was herecy or not...and some of you explained why believe what you do which is very helpful to me.

But no one has addressed my last post in this thread which was this:

What IS herecy?

Is it anything that goes against the Scriptures? And with so many different interpretations of Scripture how do you know? Can't one man's herecy be another man's doctrine?

Some say tattoos go against the scripture...others say they don't.
Some say Sunday is the Sabbath and must be honored...others say it's Saturday.
Some say it's ok for women to hold a pastoral position...others say it's not.

Is it herecy when it goes against YOUR interpretation of the Bible? Because everyone has different interpretations...how do you know what the TRUTH is?

So, how do you really know??

Can someone please help me understand the concept of heresy and how it is that you come to believe something (UR or otherwise--ANY concept) is or isn't heresy? Without debating the concept itself?

Thank you.
 
B

blueberry pie

Guest
Homeskillet said:
Can someone please help me understand the concept of heresy.

Well, the problem is that Christians will say heresy is anything that isn't mainstream or popular in the church.

So, how do I define heresy? Soley by Scripture.

Here are some Scriptures in regards to WHAT heresy is:

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing." (Mt.7: 15).

"Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen God " (3 John 9:11)

1 Cor.11:18-19 "For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions (heresies) exist among you; and in part, I believe it. For there must also be heresies among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you."

2 Peter 2:1: "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

False teachers in Isa.8:2, false prophets in Deut.13 and 18. Jesus warns of false prophets and teachers in Mt.7:15, Mt.24:23-24; Mk.13:6,21-22. we are warned by Paul in 2 Cor. 1:14, 2 Cor. 4:1-5. and Gal.1:8-9, Col.2:8, 2 Thess. 2, 1 Tim.1:3-4,4:1-2. By Peter in 1 Pt.5:8-9,2 Pt.2:1-3. By John 1 Jn.2:18-23, Rev.2:2, By Jude 4,10-11,16-17

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove (show them for what they really are) them " (Eph. 5:11). "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us." (II Thess. 3:6).

those who "consent not to wholesome words and to the doctrine which is according to godliness." (1 Tim. 6:3-5)

"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us." (2 Thess.3:6).

"test the spirits" 1 Jn.4:1 ... 1 Thess. 5:21, "test everything and hold fast to what is good."
 

destiny

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To me heresy is adding to or taking away from scripture. Interpreting out of context can lead to heresy. Wrong interpretation can lead to heresy and false doctrine.
The best way to combat it is to have good solid foundational teaching and discipleship while you are a young christian.
Something within me knows when i hear the truth and when i hear a lie.
Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow".
I learned the hard way what it means to try to follow false doctrine, and it was God himself who led me back to truth, no man was involved. God brought me back to the foundational teaching i had as a young christian and put me back on the right path.
The Holy Spirit will teach you while you study the word, and will help you discern falsehood. Really it is the work of the Holy Spirit that keeps us in truth.
We can detect false doctrine by comparing it to scripture and seeing if it lines up or not.

Blueberry pie i wont go any further in explaing what i meant to you because Josie doesnt want this thread hijacked, but if you want to start another topic i'll explain there.
 

Bryan

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I see what you guys are saying. I understood UR to mean all believers will reconcile their differences, and basically become one baody of Christ instead of the segmented denominational fractioning we see today.


If UR actually means that everyone will be saved, even if they don't make a decision to accept Christ, then YES, it is heresy.
 

smaller

 
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Greetings Free
smaller,

That's some pretty selective verses you have there. As I stated, everything must be taken in context - starting with the surrounding verses, then the whole chapter, then the whole book, then the whole Bible.

The point is that the position is not apart from very strong scriptural presentations. In the end I believe those who limit The Work of Jesus Christ for all people are the ones who have a problem.
Please reconcile your/UR view with the following:

John 3:14-16, "14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 3:36, "'He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.'"

John 5:24,28-29, "24 'Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life....28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.'"

John 6:40, "'For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.'"

Rom. 10:9, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

Shall I continue? There are many more verses to support this. Yes, Jesus died for the sins of the world so that all might be saved, but

But you see Free I do believe in "each and every" damnation text. Every single one of them.

One can adhere to UR, be totally for Jesus Christ, and still adhere to the position of eternal damnation. Just not for people. If you really took the time to study it out you will find it is those who damn other people to burn forever have the scriptural dilema on their hands.

I would equate calling UR heresy to calling Calvinism or freewill grace as heresy. I'd match any URist's firm grip on the scriptures against any of those other adherents, even in contention. We "know" our Word.

it is only those who believe in Jesus that will be saved. This is continuous throughout Scripture and only by ignoring large portions of Scripture can one come to the conclusion that all will be saved someday.

Any casual pass by Romans 11:26-32 will show that even the enemies of the Gospel are saved. This puts a huge hole in most of your doctrinal ships.

There are greater "real" heresies to deal with. UR is not one of them. Those who hold sins against men or make eternal judgments about others and not themselves have a "real" problem when their positions are put next to The Truth.

enjoy!

smaller
 
S

serapha

Guest
Homeskillet said:
What IS herecy?

Is it anything that goes against the Scriptures? And with so many different interpretations of Scripture how do you know? Can't one man's herecy be another man's doctrine?

Some say tattoos go against the scripture...others say they don't.
Some say Sunday is the Sabbath and must be honored...others say it's Saturday.
Some say it's ok for women to hold a pastoral position...others say it's not.

Is it herecy when it goes against YOUR interpretation of the Bible? Because everyone has different interpretations...how do you know what the TRUTH is?

So, how do you really know??

Hi there!

:angel:


Let's look at the word from the Bible...



Pronunciation Guide
hairesis {hah'-ee-res-is}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 1:180,27 from 138
Part of Speech
n f
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) act of taking, capture: e.g. storming a city

2) choosing, choice

3) that which is chosen

4) a body of men following their own tenets (sect or party)

a) of the Sadducees

b) of the Pharisees

c) of the Christians

5) dissensions arising from diversity of opinions and aims


#4 would be the answer to your question... combined with #3... that which is chosen (concerning doctrine)
 
E

Eve777

Guest
A belief that rejects the obvious truth of the Bible if you are a Christian..


For instance: Jesus is the only way.....if you say he is not then you are a heretic because the Bible clearly teaches that.
 
H

Homeskillet

Guest
Thanks so much guys and gals.

I apologize if I seemed 'snippety' earlier with my request...I got excited when I logged on and saw this thread had so many replies, but then disheartened when I saw it was only a UR debate.

I appreciate everyone's insight and would love to get even more on this issue.

Thanks :angel:
 
S

stray bullet

Guest
Josie, have you ever read the Apocalypse of Peter?

It addresses this very thing. Who knows, it might not be in the bible for that very reason...
 
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