Is Tithing required by the New Testament?

[jasonc]

Where is the command by Jesus (after the cross) to, I dunno, do most anything, pick one. Any one. How about "Love God above all else." Do you have a reference where Jesus spoke of this after the cross?

And perhaps, Jason, you do. But if that is the case, how about any other. Like "Don't drink blood, or "Do not commit adultery." Where is the command by Jesus after the cross for that?

The argument you present here is fallacious. Specious? <---- pick one. The implication of your argument, that all things must be spoken by Jesus and be spoken of, by Him, after the cross or resurrection --and must also be recorded (where? in the Book of Acts?) limits such things to the point of almost no restriction whatsoever. WE know that we are not relieved of our burden entirely. But it is lightened considerably, even to the point of our being now able to follow after Him in all that this means.

It is my assertion that as we continue to follow after Him we are, by His Spirit in us, able to become more and more like Him, The Christ.

I counter with why doesn't the church do the feast? whatsoever the pharisses bid... that is what I was trying to say.

 

[Sparkey]

I'll need more to be able to understand your meaning. I do know you well enough to assume that you're talking above my understanding (it won't be the first time). So if you'd like to explain more, I'll like to listen.

 

[jasonc]

I'll need more to be able to understand your meaning. I do know you well enough to assume that you're talking above my understanding. So if you'd like to explain more, I'll like to listen.

the torah the gist of it never was negated , tithing isn't the gist of it. paul mentions giving. not tithing. strange if its continued if tithing was done in his day. while tithing does predate moses , it doesn't appear to be the same in command.

 

[Stan1953]

Yes, the point was since you say the principle was still in affect, is the way it was handled still in affect as well?
And if you can. please provide something to substantiate your answer, however opinions are just fine too.

OK let me use this as an example. Matt 19:1-9 (NIV) shows Jesus dealing with divorce. God's principle from Gen 2 had not changed, but the verbal laws of the Jews had. Jesus corrected their understanding but made it clear that divorce was NOT acceptable. He does the same thing in Matt 23:23 about tithing, along with justice, mercy and faithfulness. The principle hadn't changed, but they way the Pharisees practised it had. The same holds true for us today. God's principles haven't changed, only the legality in which the Jews viewed that law had. The Levitical/Mosaic Laws were basically written in stone (pun intended)

 

[Stan1953]

the were what I would call local ways by the house churches to deal with that. where is the command to tithe by Jesus after the cross?

I don't get what you are saying here, but Jesus didn't make many commands after He rose. Do you think that what He DID say before He was crucified is somehow nullified?

 

[jasonc]

I don't get what you are saying here, but Jesus didn't make many commands after He rose. Do you think that what He DID say before He was crucified is somehow nullified?

so the curse of not tithing was removed? and where is that he said to the church, that was the to the Pharisees as well he corrected torah. for I have come not abolish the law but not to fulfill it. the context is not to destroy it. but to correct it.all the pharisses did.

the law wasn't annulled but rendered obsolete. paul says the cross makes the law obsolete, that includes tithing. which was a command then. paul said giving. not tithing. giving isn't tithing. my pastor teaches tithing and says that.

 

[jasonc]

since you mentioned the law of reaping. well that is also by context the same as deutermony 28. cursed shall ye be. I have a problem with that changing of that a curse is a bit more. yet it is very much like the law of sowing an reaping. sow sin reap sin. that chapter is that. khoose death or life.

 

[jasonc]

I have seen pastors tell the poor on welfare and disability to tithe then have the church give them money back. that makes no sense.the person that I knew that did that died blessed as she helped all that she could but was never healed and stayed on tanf. god did take of her but I aslo know others who didn't give and it was the same.(tithing)

 

[Sparkey]

I too have seen pastors (of million dollar enterprises that I would not call a church but everybody else does) preach that food stamp recipients need to tithe on their entire income including the welfare check AND the food stamps. He promised from the pulpit as if he were the oracle of God Himself that should they do such and give to God (meaning HIM) then God would bless them. He would open the heavens and reverse the "generational curse" that had followed after their families for years and years.

He didn't say anything about coming to the church for help, that part was all left up to God and should, I expect, be done unto them 'according to their faith.'

Following his deranged version of the familiar Malachi Scripture was the only way it can change, he said. What an abuse of trust! It was at this point that I began speaking to our Lord about removing my sandal and wiping dust. I was too timid at that time but I could sense in my spirit that it would be permitted.

Can you say "incensed" ?? That kind of thing is worse then the money-changers.

 

[jasonc]

I too have seen pastors (of million dollar enterprises that I would not call a church but everybody else does) preach that food stamp recipients need to tithe on their entire income including the welfare check AND the food stamps. He promised from the pulpit as if he were the oracle of God Himself that should they do such and give to God (meaning HIM) then God would bless them. He would open the heavens and reverse the "generational curse" that had followed after their families for years and years.

That's the only way it can change, according to him. It was at this point that I began speaking to our Lord about removing my sandal and wiping dust. I was too timid at that time but I could sense in my spirit that it would be permitted.

Can you say "incensed" ??

or heal them. which isn't really promised. I can see the idea of the tithing, we ought to give and its not bad idea to tithe but some churches I know don't teach tithing(calvary chapel and vineyard don't). and they are blessed by the giving they do get. what if one is as some members here that have no way to go to a church that isn't apostate?

 

[Sparkey]

There's a word for heart felt giving (not tithing - but in Greek it starts with a 'k'?) -- but the sense of it is to care for each other beyond what we would do for our family members because we are united in Christ.

It's more than that thing that is promised by Holy Incorporated (the limited liability company) --and we can live it, it's the kind of thing that shall happen when we start to understand the message. We can be like HIM!

 

[jasonc]

Koinenna

There's a word for heart felt giving (not tithing - but in Greek it starts with a 'k'?) -- but the sense of it is to care for each other beyond what we would do for our family members because we are united in Christ.

It's more than that thing that is promised by Holy Incorporated (the limited liability company) --and we can live it, it's the kind of thing that shall happen when we start to understand the message. We can be like HIM!

 

[jasonc]

All things common.it's translates usually as fellowship.

 

[Sparkey]

Thank you, yes. Coming together in faith and also in love and also in encouragement of one another --more than just a pat on the back. The bible speaks of devotion of one to another. But it's easier than that. Just follow the path that Jesus put before us. Love God above all and love others as self. Can we do this? In reality?

I can't.

The clue is that Jesus has and can. So we can also through Him.

The reason that I tie the devotion that we owe to each other to tithing is that we are to give service to God. But God is not a man and how can we give to the owner of all heavens and all earth? We were all bought with a great price, and how can we show respect to that? But our due service, our fellowship, ties into profits that are sowed in heaven. "What shall I profit YOU, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?" I think Paul taught more than what many think he taught.

 

[Sparkey]

Jason, you're a bad influence (on me). And you already know that I don't need much to get carried away. We're in the lounge so maybe I can get away with it here --because I do get side-tracked rather easily. Still, this conversation we are having follows my convoluted way of thinking. It started with, "What do we owe?" That's the concept. What is it that I am duty bound to deliver or give? That's the link to tithe. That's where the whole fellowship and love one another thought and my "k word" bread-crumb thinking comes from.

WE are no longer to allow ourselves to become slaves to the law. Jesus broke the bonds and we are prohibited (as much as we are able) from going back. He whom the Son sets free is FREE INDEED! And it's like you said earlier. "...the torah the gist of it never was negated"

So here I go. If we were obligated and had a duty to tithe and if that was primarily because of the poor but also as a duty to rejoice and go to the holy city --then what of that carries into the hearts of flesh that the Word is written into? How are we to understand? What evil may we depart from and to what goal? I don't like the negative, "don't do this, don't do that," unless we find what we are to do in the positive. So that's where the study of the Greek comes in and that's the entry point of our Christian fellowship. It's also part of the procession of the brides train, hmmmm... you know that long trailing part of her gown that we can almost see? It's our love for each other. So then, and again, I do meander like Old Man River ... so if you're impatient, just scroll down. But if you can hear it, the word study that clarifies our tithe obligation. The one that isn't written in stone; the one that is to be written in our hearts.

It is found by doing a word study on the phrase, "one another". It's found by seeking Him.

John 13:34
Romans 12:10; 13:8; 15:7; 15:14; 16:16
Galatians 5:13
Ephesians 4:2; 4:32
Colossians 3:16
1Thessalonians 4:9,18; 5:11
Hebrews 3:13; 10:34; 10:25
1John 4:7,12

 

[raoul duke]

The Biblical regular tithes were only clean foods that were created by God. Not man made money or anything else man made.

As far as we know, Abraham didn't tithe from his own goods, animals etc, just the one time spoils of war and gave the rest back to the king he had taken it from.
Jacob made a deal with the Lord, I imagine he kept his agreement to tithe from his herd after God brought him home to the land of his father. The Bible doesn't ever mention it again as a tithe. Although about twenty yrs. later after returning to his country, he built an altar. I think this may be when he kept his promise to God.

Agree.

imo.....
If you can't afford to give it you shouldn't be giving it, unless the Lord has given you a specific directive. If He, does then He will make sure that you can meet your other obligations (promises that you have made to others.)
It is never good when Christians give and then do not pay their bills, because they can't afford to. It is not a good witness for the Lord.

so the curse of not tithing was removed? and where is that he said to the church, that was the to the Pharisees as well he corrected torah. for I have come not abolish the law but not to fulfill it. the context is not to destroy it. but to correct it.all the pharisses did.

the law wasn't annulled but rendered obsolete. paul says the cross makes the law obsolete, that includes tithing. which was a command then. paul said giving. not tithing. giving isn't tithing. my pastor teaches tithing and says that.

the curse was removed, but televangelists like Creflo Dollar and other greedy scumbags won't admit this, they need the curse to guilt and extort tithes out of you so they can become richer. tithing was for the Jews, not for us, there's no more Levites, no temple, no more animals to sacrifice. The New Testament says in 1 and 2 Corinthians that offerings are to be based on what we can afford, and what our heart prompts us to give in response to someone else's need. God is not your banker, He is not required to take your (voluntary) tithe and multiply it 100% and then give it back to you so we can worship the money.

 

[jasonc]

Lol the postIves and negatives but not under the law.interesting.

 

[YosefHayim]

I wrote this in a thread I posted:

ROBBED OF OFFERINGS

speaking to Israel, God said:

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Malachi 8-10
​

As a Christian, what is an offering we can rob God of?

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present (or offer) your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans 12:1​

I would like to add:

GIVE ALL YOU GOT
As stated in other posts, the NT Church is about 100%

For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living. Mark 12:44​

We won't get into heaven by tithing. Now it's up to us to invest with sincerity, for we are anchored. Our works are the work of Christ, and not our own (Phil 1:11).

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23
​

First off, are we to tithe mint, anise, and cummin also? What are the weightier things neglected? Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You cannot leave the latter undone.

We should be like the lady who put in her two pennies. Her two pennies was all she had to live on. She casted in out of her want. The others put in out of their abundance. We can put our 10 percent in, but that is ritual. That is religious law. We can also put 100%, but are we doing that out of want? Do we desire with sincerity to do these things, or are we sounding a trumpet? (Matthew 6:2)

Do you want to offer 100% to the house of God? Offer your entire being into the hands of God.

God is not a lottery ticket. He is not a slot machine.

Scripture says not to labour to get wealthy, for wealth flies off with wings. The Lord also spoke concerning this, saying "The Father cares for the sparrows, yet how much more are you worth than those sparrows?"

Being anchored with security is much harder than working yourself into heaven. It exposes the sincerity and faith in you (or lack thereof).

I don't believe the NT church is bound by a ten percent anything. Rather we are given freedom to do 100 percent everything.

Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is like a pearl, and a man sold all his possessions for it. We have a seat in a high and heavenly place in Christ. Yet we toss our possessions and skill into the world's dross.

If we freely give all in sincerity, what are we left with? Ps. 23.

 

[Stan1953]

so the curse of not tithing was removed? and where is that he said to the church, that was the to the Pharisees as well he corrected torah. for I have come not abolish the law but not to fulfill it. the context is not to destroy it. but to correct it.all the pharisses did.

the law wasn't annulled but rendered obsolete. paul says the cross makes the law obsolete, that includes tithing. which was a command then. paul said giving. not tithing. giving isn't tithing. my pastor teaches tithing and says that.

You'll have to put some context into your posts....what curse?
So you think Jesus leaders what they should have done or do, is not applicable to all people?
Yes, and He fulfilled the OC law when He died and rose from the dead.
Yes, it was rendered obsolete because the priesthood was no longer required due to Jesus becoming our sole mediator.
As I explained, tithing existed BEFORE the written law, so it was a principle of God, just like sowing and reaping, that was NOT expunged.
Tithing simply means to GIVE 10% to where God directs you to give. I really can't comment on what you pastor teaches.

 

[YosefHayim]

the curse was removed, but televangelists like Creflo Dollar and other greedy scumbags won't admit this, they need the curse to guilt and extort tithes out of you so they can become richer. tithing was for the Jews, not for us, there's no more Levites, no temple, no more animals to sacrifice. The New Testament says in 1 and 2 Corinthians that offerings are to be based on what we can afford, and what our heart prompts us to give in response to someone else's need. God is not your banker, He is not required to take your (voluntary) tithe and multiply it 100% and then give it back to you so we can worship the money.

"Nobody has problems saying I'm a child of God. EVERYBODY has problems saying I'm a little g. Oh, everybody has problems saying—listen n-n-now let's get down to it—everybody got problems saying I'm a god." — Crefflo Dollar

"In the day that ye eat thereof, your eyes shall be open, ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil" — The Ancient Serpent called the Devil and Satan

"before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." — IEHOVEH, God the Father.