ISLAM IN THE WORLD

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Both the Qu'ran and The Bible advocate killing. Apparently I'm not allowed to spell out where but you MUST know there are 50 or thereabouts instructions in The Bible to kill.

As I pointed out earlier, you miss the point, and that is s significant issue. The Bible does advocate for killing of humans, but that is for the SINFUL THINGS THEY DID.

The Qur'an advocates killing people FOR WHO THEY ARE, MEANING NOT MUSLIMS
I did post a list of instructions in The Bible to kill people FOR WHO THEY ARE but it was deleted with a claim that I was attacking God. Apparently I am not allowed to quote and comment upon The Bible here. :shrug

Is it fair, reasonable and acceptable to ferment religious hatred on a Christian web-site? It does not seem so to me.

Since when is telling the truth "fermenting religious hatred"?
It is all about context and the misleading way information is presented.

If someone, in outraged terms, points out that there have been 1,000 rapes by Muslims in Sweden, in just 7 months, that may be absolutely true. Shock horror! However, the statement fails to point out that there have been 80,000 rapes by Christians in the same place in the same period AND that, demographically, there has been only 20% of the Christian rape rate by Muslims. The whole story paints an entirely different picture - doesn't it.

I am sure any intelligent person understands that a statement made, which may be true, can also be totally misleading. The way the information has been presented in this example gives a totally false impression. The information may be true but the impression given, for nefarious purposes, is fermenting hatred. Context is everything - "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" - Churchill
 
In Joshua it says to kill everyone alive who isn't Jewish if they remain on the land and didn't flee. They weren't given instructions to case after them once they had gone they were only after the land which had to be purified and wiped clean for the chosen people. Archaeologically that doesn't appear to be what happened so it may have been Jews interpretation of themselves Comment deleted written some time later.
 
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In Joshua it says to kill everyone alive who isn't Jewish if they remain on the land and didn't flee.

In other words, if they disobeyed God, they were punished. Thank you for supplying the answer to your silly attack on the Bible. Obviously your zeal for attacking the Bible exacerbated your inability to read the CONTEXT

Archaeologically that doesn't appear to be what happened so it may have been Jews interpretation of themselves Comment deleted written some time later.

This is speculation masquerading as fact. Please come back when you have some facts to back up your baseless assertions.
 
I did post a list of instructions in The Bible to kill people FOR WHO THEY ARE but it was deleted with a claim that I was attacking God. Apparently I am not allowed to quote and comment upon The Bible here.
Come on! Are you going to play the "persecution card" when it is you who are unabashedly attacking the Bible? More to the point, EACH POSTER IS A GUEST IN THIS HOUSE. We are here because we agreed to a standard of conduct prior to being permitted to post. You are free to agree or disagree with that standard, but you are not permitted to whine if you are asked to leave if you spill "cigarette butts" all over the clean rug.

If someone, in outraged terms, points out that there have been 1,000 rapes by Muslims in Sweden, in just 7 months, that may be absolutely true. Shock horror! However, the statement fails to point out that there have been 80,000 rapes by Christians in the same place in the same period AND that, demographically, there has been only 20% of the Christian rape rate by Muslims. The whole story paints an entirely different picture - doesn't it.

And we are supposed to believe that this is factual based on your say-so??? Since you fail to cite your sources for that outrageous statistic (Were the "Christian rapists" carrying their Bibles so they could be identified as such??) for anyone to put out a preposterous statement such as this, and to call it a "fact" is to discredit both the argument and the poster simultaneously. Therefore, the statement I quoted is nothing more than pretentious bald-faced hubris.

Please come back when you have something to say that can be verified.


"there are lies, damned lies, and statistics" - Churchill

Obviously you have never studied statistics. I have. But that is beside the point; the nature of rational and intelligent debate is the usage of facts and sources. In the posts I replied to, you have failed to supply any facts to back up your specious allegations, As a result your posts sink to the level of ranting on empty.

Please come back when you have something to say that can be verified.
 
You are free to agree or disagree with that standard, but you are not permitted to whine if you are asked to leave if you spill "cigarette butts" all over the clean rug.
Far from whining, I was simply telling you why I could not give you the information you asked for. Why you think this gives you a right to issue insults is a mystery to me - but never mind, I accept that is just your 'style'.

If someone, in outraged terms, points out that there have been 1,000 rapes by Muslims in Sweden, in just 7 months, that may be absolutely true. Shock horror! However, the statement fails to point out that there have been 80,000 rapes by Christians in the same place in the same period AND that, demographically, there has been only 20% of the Christian rape rate by Muslims. The whole story paints an entirely different picture - doesn't it.

And we are supposed to believe that this is factual based on your say-so??? ..... Please come back when you have something to say that can be verified.
I very clearly worded it as an example, to make the point BUT if you really want to know the source of that idea, it came from another post here http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=54107
I am glad to hear that you have studied statistics, that will enable you to understand the point, made extremely well, that the original article is misleading in the extreme. Somehow I doubt that fact will worry you too much but you may nevertheless want to understand the fallacy yourself. The truth may well set you free.


Obviously you have never studied statistics. I have. But that is beside the point....
Actually, I have studied statistics and in the example offered to you, statistics are certainly not 'beside the point' - they are the whole of the point. I suggest you use your statistics skills to understand the misleading nature of that particular hate blog.
 
Arrdverk said
80,000 rapes by Christians

By Christians do you mean those that know Jesus or those that claim the title?

tob
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

When Islamophobes point out all the hateful things done by 'Muslims', they never stop to ask themselves if that person or those people are true, God-fearing Muslims.

When hateful things are done by 'Christians' the response from good Christians is that the villains are not true Christians.

Muslims say exactly the same thing about 'Muslim' villains but Islamophobes still tar them all with the same brush. Unfair or unfair?
 
India fury over gang rapes sign of changing nation

http://news.yahoo.com/india-fury-over-gang-rapes-sign-changing-nation-102555774.html


"While attacks on women occur constantly across India, often within the home, the brutality and public nature of the New Delhi case left many shocked and shamed. Thousands took to the streets in the capital to express their outrage....


'The government, pledging to crack down, created fast-track courts for rape cases, doubled prison terms for rape and criminalized voyeurism, stalking, acid attacks and the trafficking of women.


'The Tourism Ministry launched a nationwide "I Respect Women" campaign after a Swiss bicyclist was gang-raped in March in central India and an American woman was gang-raped two months later in the northern resort town of Manali.


'Yet another high-profile gang rape last month, against a photojournalist on assignment in Mumbai, renewed public fury and sent the media into 24-7 coverage marked by daily front page headlines and talk shows debating how to make India safe for women...."


"The crime branch officials on Thursday seized a mobile phone belonging to Mohammad Kasim Mohammad Hafiz Shaikh alias Bangali, one of the arrested rape accused.

Bangali, 22, was one of the five men accused of raping a 23-year-old photojournalist at the Shakti Mills compound last Thursday. He was arrested on Saturday. The accused had clicked pictures of the woman after the crime..."


http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/1881...ed-to-click-photojournalist-s-pictures-seized


_69453914_019043893.jpg

(photo from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23806871)


BBC also said this (found on same url as photo) ""He (the rapist) later called four more men (his "friends") to the spot. They tied the male colleague's hands with a belt and took the girl to the bushes and raped her."


Any questions? Well, I have a couple. First, why did the Indian Tourism board wait until foreign women were raped to take action? Secondly, according to Yahoo news, the government is only recently "creating fast-track courts for rape cases, doubling prison terms for rape and criminalized voyeurism, stalking, acid attacks and the trafficking of women."

Again, according to Yahoo news, after the attack and death of a rape victim last December, one of the attackers, a juvenile, was sentenced to 3 years, the then maximum sentence for a juvenile. The adults who raped and eventually were equally responsible for the death of the woman in December will be tried as adults and could face execution, according to Yahoo news.
 
When Islamophobes point out all the hateful things done by 'Muslims', they never stop to ask themselves if that person or those people are true, God-fearing Muslims. When hateful things are done by 'Christians' the response from good Christians is that the villains are not true Christians. Muslims say exactly the same thing about 'Muslim' villains but Islamophobes still tar them all with the same brush. Unfair or unfair?

You STILL miss the point that their Qur'an tells them MANY times to kill "infidels" because they are not Muslims. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that tells Christians and Jews to kill people because of their beliefs.


80,000 rapes by Christians

And we are supposed to believe that this is factual based on your say-so???

Please come back when you have something to say that can be verified.
 
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Let's address the topic rather than those taking part in this discussion, please.
 
India fury over gang rapes sign of changing nation

"The crime branch officials on Thursday seized a mobile phone belonging to Mohammad Kasim Mohammad Hafiz Shaikh alias Bangali, one of the arrested rape accused.

Bangali, 22, was one of the five men accused of raping a 23-year-old photojournalist at the Shakti Mills compound last Thursday. He was arrested on Saturday. The accused had clicked pictures of the woman after the crime..."

......
What on earth does this have to do with ISLAM IN THE WORLD? You do understand that India is primarily a Hindu and Sikh nation don't you?

You have identified one accused person who appears to be a Muslim. Assuming that he is guilty, are you presenting him as 'proof' that ALL Muslims are rapists?

What was the point of your post?
 
When Islamophobes point out all the hateful things done by 'Muslims', they never stop to ask themselves if that person or those people are true, God-fearing Muslims. When hateful things are done by 'Christians' the response from good Christians is that the villains are not true Christians. Muslims say exactly the same thing about 'Muslim' villains but Islamophobes still tar them all with the same brush. Unfair or unfair?

You STILL miss the point that their Qur'an tells them MANY times to kill "infidels" because they are not Muslims. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that tells Christians and Jews to kill people because of their beliefs.

OK. I will try to do this politely.

You probably claim that the instructions in The Bible to kill people are no longer valid. You probably would claim 'the New Covenant' or something similar to justify why those words clearly telling us to kill - no longer apply. Fair enough.

Now, what is it that you don't understand when a Muslim tells you that those similar words in the Qu'ran no longer apply? Or have you never spoken to a Muslim? Do you simply want to cause mischief or do you really not know the difference between pre-conversion and post conversion Islam? It is as as significant to Muslims as the difference between Mosaic Law and Jesus' Law.

I am sorry, but every time you quote the Qu'ran out of context, you are displaying ignorance of the Qu'ran and Islamic law rather than making public some hidden truth. You really need to read a little more for yourself and perhaps go and talk with an Islamic Scholar. ONLY Scholars are considered capable of interpreting the Qu'ran. When you have studied it as long as he has, you may be able to understand it and interpret it accurately. Until then.........

If you really and truly want to understand why Muslims consider themselves to be bound to peace, fairness and justice, I will seek out some useful references for you. If you want to keep trying to spread hate - God help you. You are the one who is suffering.
 
And we are supposed to believe that this is factual based on your say-so??? Please come back when you have something to say that can be verified.


Here is something fresh you can add to the things that Aardverk is unable to refute:
Temple Mount: Arabs Pelt Jewish Visitors with Stones

Police forces enter Temple Mount compound immediately after Muslims began throwing rocks at Jewish visitors.


Police forces were dispatched on Wednesday to break up Muslim stone throwers who were targeting Jewish visitors on the Temple Mount (Har Habayit).
As soon as stones were thrown and riots broke out, police forces stepped in to make arrests.


Security forces were prepared for a riot as this incident follows renewed incitement by Islamic Movement leader Sheikh Raed Salah, who called for Muslims to physically prevent Jews from visiting the Temple Mount last week.


Yesterday, the leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel was arrested on charges of "incitement against Israel and regarding the Temple Mount," and is currently being questioned by police.
See more of the article HERE

Because this is Rosh Hashana (Jewish New Year) 5774, and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) is nearby, it is not unrealistic to see more of this sort of nonsense from that " peaceful religion" and the paid clergy of that "peaceful religion". Even the most revolting Christian-in-name only group, Westboro Baptist Church who shout vile things at military funerals do not go so far as to incite riots, and this fellow, and his "peaceful followers" have done.
 
Good grief guys.... stop making the discussion personal.... Please do not abuse the privilege of using this space.... When threads go personal and/or off topic most often it implies they are done....

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

Not necessarily directed at the last poster.
 
Temple Mount: Arabs Pelt Jewish Visitors with Stones

Police forces enter Temple Mount compound immediately after Muslims began throwing rocks ...........
It is not long ago that much of America was anti-Semitic, anti-German, anti-Japan, anti-Vietnam, anti-Korea, anti-Poland, anti-Iran, anti-Russia, anti Iraq, anti-China, etc, etc. The flavor of the month is Islam and ignorant propaganda is rife - just as it has been for all the other 'antis'. It's time to grow up.

I suggest that people use their computers to research truth rather than fall for and disseminate stupid propaganda.

What on earth is the point in posting news of a crime or a protest and naively trying to pretend that it typifies whoever the 'flavor of the month enemy' happens to be. There are crimes and violent protests all around the world every single day from people of every religion and of none. Shall we re-publish them here and try to pretend that all the crime in America (say) typifies the 'American way'? Does it? Does a crime by a few Muslims typify Islamic behavior? Of course it doesn't any more than the crimes by a few 'Christians' typify Christian behavior.
 
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It is not long ago that much of America was anti-Semitic, anti-German, anti-Japan, anti-Vietnam, anti-Korea, anti-Poland, anti-Iran, anti-Russia, anti Iraq, anti-China, etc, etc


Do you remember that we once were at war with almost ALL of those countries in the last century, and parts of this, and t THAT was the reason we were correctly against them?

One thing I have noticed in your posts is that your claims are so so generalized that they seem contrived. So those above and the one follow seem to be in the same genre.
(Originally Posted by Aardverk View Post) 80,000 rapes by Christians

So now for the SECOND time I am asking you to substantiate that first claim of "80,000 rapes by Christians" or withdraw it. After we deal with that, we can address other issues, OK?
 
It is not long ago that much of America was anti-Semitic, anti-German, anti-Japan, anti-Vietnam, anti-Korea, anti-Poland, anti-Iran, anti-Russia, anti Iraq, anti-China, etc, etc
Do you remember that we once were at war with almost ALL of those countries in the last century, and parts of this, and t THAT was the reason we were correctly against them?
Well, it may seem strange but there is this idea that you should 'love your enemy'.
'Blessed is the peacemaker'.​

During wars, including cold wars, there is always deliberate propaganda to try to make people hate 'the enemy' so that they will keep on fighting or keep on being scared. The men actually doing the fighting are sometimes full of hate but as often as not they are simply doing their job as professionally as they can primarily to keep themselves and their buddies alive. They are not motivated by hate but by love for their fellow man. They certainly do not all hate their enemies, many of them love their enemies and, given a chance, they will be friendly with them. Temporary truces for football matches between the trenches for example. Temporary truces to recover the injured.

Propaganda is a terrible weapon. It deliberately dehumanizes the enemy and instills hatred in place of our natural fairness and compassion. Without propaganda it is difficult to get most people to kill someone or to hate someone. It is also a very effective weapon because it fools so many impressionable, people. Maintaining a sense of justice and proportion when all around you people are baying for blood is difficult but I guess that is what Jesus would ask you to do. The 'baying' that we are all experiencing at the moment are the misleading reports of crimes etc that seek to tar all Muslims with the same brush. Don't fall for it and don't be part of it.

When I started travelling the world I was truly shocked at how grossly wrong my impression of some nations was. Time after time I have seen stupidly wrong explanations of what happens in place a, b or c. Those explanations are wrong because people believed propaganda and did not bother to ascertain facts. Up until the 90's only 3% of Americans even held passports!Think about that! If only 3% had passports, HOW could they possibly know what other countries were like? Most of the Americans who went abroad went abroad to kill people! Is there any wonder that so many have a disjointed view of the world? If you want to know what a country is like or what the people are like, GO THERE. There is no substitute.

In 1971, at the height of the 'Cold War', I went behind the 'Iron Curtain' - just to have a look for myself. Everyone kept telling me not to go and that it wasn't safe. What I actually experienced was a welcoming, curious people who expected me to be aggressive rather than friendly. When I got back and related my experiences, many people simply wouldn't believe me. They preferred to believe the propaganda.

You were probably taught by propaganda to hate all the people I listed above BUT you were also taught to love your enemy. If you love someone, the least you can do is not to spread misinformation about them. To avoid making errors, we need to stop and think rather than make knee-jerk reactions.

Just remember that propaganda is a mixture of lies and truth. You need to sort the two out clearly in your mind.

Aardverk said:
80,000 rapes by Christians

So now for the SECOND time I am asking you to substantiate that first claim of "80,000 rapes by Christians" or withdraw it. After we deal with that, we can address other issues, OK?

Rather than me writing it all out a SECOND time, have a look back at post #93 which answered your question very clearly.
 
Rather than me writing it all out a SECOND time, have a look back at post #93 which answered your question very clearly.


It took me a while to fnd the exact post in that thread you referenced. And you are correct in stating that the methodology for determining the rate of rape is not accurate. To do that, it requires an ANOVA, a set of calculations which determines the relationship between two sets of variables, and if done by hand, it takes an hour to do. But this is what is required: take the total # of rapes, and then compare the # of rapes for each religious group, and compare that with the expected norm (that there would be an even distribution of rape percentage among both groups). If there were something greater than 68% of that expected norm, up to 94% then the difference would be termed "greater" If the difference between the expected norm in the number of rapes is 95% or> then the differences would be termed "significantly greater".

Originally Posted by Aardverk If someone, in outraged terms, points out that there have been 1,000 rapes by Muslims in Sweden, in just 7 months, that may be absolutely true. Shock horror! However, the statement fails to point out that there have been 80,000 rapes by Christians in the same place in the same period
But the good thing about this is that the original poster of the data, TOG admits that the actual statistics are difficult HERE. Therefore I request that in light of what he posted, and what I posted as the best way to really determine if there really are any differences that you back off your assessment that there are 80,000 rapes by Christians because it is untrue and inflammatory.

You were probably taught by propaganda to hate all the people I listed above...
This assumes much, and all of it is not true.

If you love someone, the least you can do is not to spread misinformation about them.

Surely, it is NOT wrong to correctly quote what their Qur'an states. Unlike the Bible, there is no "context", meaning a long paragraph about a teaching in the Qur'an. Therefore to use the term, "out of context" is a misapplication. Have you ever read the surrounding suras which I referenced? I have.

So the point comes down to the fact that you have not shown any Bible verse that tells Christians and Jews to kill any group of people for who they ARE in an indiscriminate manner. But I have demonstrated that there are many suras that say to kill the infidels, mean non-Muslims and those who convert to any other religion from Islam.

Since it is permissible to quote Bible verses here, I ask you to find any Bible verse that says to kill any group of people for who they are. FYI when God gave the order to kill all the Amalikites plus their livestock that was because of what they did to the Jews who were on the Exodus, and wanted to cross over into their Promised Land. In answer to the request of the leaders, (I believe Moses) the Amalakites refused to give them safe passage, and assembled their army, threatening to murder all of them if they trespassed onto their land. Therefore that is not an incident that will prove your case.

Looking forward to your response.

“Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
 
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The way i understand it those rebels that Assad is killing are the rebels that want to wipe every Christian from the face of the earth and now we are going to support them? What sort of game are they playing, we all know the world wants us dead the world hates Jesus Christ and those that love him. I wonder how long before those pictured there become us sitting here. What ever you do "Don't Panic" These things must come to pass before the last sheep is safely in the fold..:yes

Stripped, bound and shot in the head: Horrifying fate of Assad’s soldiers executed on camera by Syrian rebels..

Video smuggled out of Syria by former rebel horrified by brutality of attack
Abdul Samad Issa reads passage and says 'we will take revenge'

Issa, known as 'the uncle', fires first bullet at prisoner's head

Bodies are dumped in a well while one gunman smiles at camera

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-soldiers-executed-camera-Syrian-rebels.html

tob
 
When Islamophobes point out all the hateful things done by 'Muslims', they never stop to ask themselves if that person or those people are true, God-fearing Muslims.


Here is something new from CBS News, which is not an "islamic-phobic" news organization (actually it is very liberal) , nor can anyone state that the SOURCE of the article, Associated Press is "islamic-phobic".

AP/ September 5, 2013, 3:11 PM
Police: Afghan militants drag female author out of her home, shoot her dead


KABUL Suspected Taliban militants in Afghanistan on Thursday shot dead an Indian woman whose memoir about marrying an Afghan and life under the Islamist militia was made into a Bollywood movie, officials said.

The killing of Sushmita Banerjee was the latest in a string of attacks on prominent women in Afghanistan, adding to fears women's rights in a country where many are barely allowed outside the house will recede even more after U.S.-led foreign forces fully withdraw in 2014.


The militants arrived before dawn at Banjerjee's residence in eastern Paktika province, which lies in Afghanistan's east — a region where the Taliban are especially influential.

Her husband, Jaanbaz Khan, answered the door, only to be quickly bound and blindfolded, provincial police chief Gen. Dawlat Khan Zadran told The Associated Press.


The militants then dragged Banerjee outside, took her to a nearby road and shot her at least 15 times, Zadran said...
To see the entire article, go HERE

Her "crime" was to write a book in 1997 A Kabuliwala's Bengali Wife. It later became the basis for the 2003 film "Escape from Taliban."

So let's think about "fairness" to that woman and her widowed husband.

Let any one show evidence whereby a gang of Christians do the same to a Muslim, or anyone who opposes Christianity, which includes some non-Christian posters on any Christian-owned website such as this is.

Significantly, the AP article concludes with this sordid list of Muslim atrocities towards women in order to "protect Islam":

  • Militants have targeted prominent women several times in recent months in Afghanistan.
  • Last month, officials confirmed that Fariba Ahmadi Kakar, a lawmaker who represents Kandahar province in parliament, was kidnapped and was being held in exchange for four insurgents detained by the government.
  • Also in August, insurgents ambushed the convoy of a female Afghan senator, seriously wounding her in the attack and killing her 8-year-old daughter and a bodyguard.
  • Senator Rouh Gul Khirzad's husband, son and another daughter were also wounded in the attack in the Muqur district of Ghazni.
When hateful things are done by 'Christians' the response from good Christians...

In order for this to be a credible statement it is necessary that anyone show that there are any retaliatory actions by Christians to these atrocities, or else some deliberately provocative act by Christians against Muslims.

But to me, the most interesting thing about this horrid event is that at some unknown date, Banerjee converted to Islam, so this is Muslim-on-Muslim violence to a woman who had the audacity to be literate and write a book from which a movie was made. This event is merely mob justice (we call it a "kangaroo court") acting as vigilantes. How could this atrocity be spun to blame the victim or else Christians? It is impossible.

There is no parallel in the Western World for such a litany of abominations done by ANY group and so frequently as is found in the lame stream press. But for a Christian to post these horrid things here, it is the Christian who gets vilified as being "islamic-phobic". That does not compute.