It isn't Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you!

[The Unbeliever]

It's one thing to refer to God as Allah, but the descriptions of Allah of the Koran and the God of the Bible are very different.

I agree and disagree. My own inclination is to agree with you on this matter, as my own discernment of the two descriptions is that they are sufficiently different to be treated separately. On the other hand, I acknowledge that this is a matter of interpretation, and that there are those who might see the matter otherwise.

 

[By Grace]

What can I say, that has not been my experience from speaking with Muslims or reading the Qur'an. The five pillars advise Muslims on the right way to worship. They are not the means toward salvation other than
being an element of obedience to God. What Christian will be saved if they reject God?

You present a logical fallacy called "begging the question"
BY DEFINITION,a person calling himself a Christian cannot deny/reject God.

And if you knew me, I could tell you the same thing. I could also tell you that Arabic speaking Christians call God Allah.

"A rose is a rose is a rose"-- Gertrude Stein

But the god named Allah is NOT the same as the God if the Bible.
There is one name that the Christian God has, and that no other religion can call their god, that is "Father".

 

[The Unbeliever]

You present a logical fallacy called "begging the question"
BY DEFINITION,a person calling himself a Christian cannot deny/reject God.

That was my point. Thank you.

But the god named Allah is NOT the same as the God if the Bible.
There is one name that the Christian God has, and that no other religion can call their god, that is "Father".

I think that is something you should take up with Arabic speaking Christians. I only report what I know about the situation. I make no judgements as to the propriety of this practice.

 

[Kaliani]

Muslims pray to an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Creator of Heaven and Earth.

I don't know how justified the claim is that only Christians worship Him, while Muslims worship only a 'god'.

 

[tessiewebb]

Anyone have any idea how we can help to get this on tv, radio, anywhere?

http://www.rescuechristians.org/the-work-of-rescue-christians-in-pakistan/

 

[tessiewebb]

Here's the website for an excellent video that just might wake up the Islamophiles on this thread:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/3782/grand-deception-discussion-panel-webcast

 

[By Grace]

Muslims pray to an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Creator of Heaven and Earth.
I don't know how justified the claim is that only Christians worship Him, while Muslims worship only a 'god'.

The God of the Bible calls Israel the "children of God, the apple of His eye.

The god of Islam, allah calls Jews and Christians infidels (kefir) and instructs followers to hate both the Jews and Christians.

Sorry, but due to the law of non-contradiction which means that a rose can not be anything other than a rose, even if it is called an orange, the fact that there is such a great contradiction in the meaning and attributes between the true God of the Bible, and the concocted god, allah that it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to be identical.

Superficial comparisons such as yours above are disingenuous.

The following Hadithim comes from an unpublished book of mine:

Volume 3, Book 50, Number 890:
Narrated Ibn Umar:
… Now Abdullah bin Umar went to his land and was attacked at night, and his hands and feet were dislocated, and as we have no enemies there except those Jews, they are our enemies and the only people whom we suspect, I have made up my mind to exile them." [FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]

Volume 3, Book 39, Number 524:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle gave the land of Khaibar to the Jew's on the condition that they work on it and cultivate it, and be given half of its yield. [FONT=&quot][2][/FONT]

Volume 8, Book 77, Number 597:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "No child is born but has the Islamic Faith, but its parents turn it into a Jew or a Christian… [FONT=&quot][3][/FONT]
​

[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/050.sbt.html#003.050.890

[FONT=&quot][2][/FONT] http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/039.sbt.html#003.039.524

[FONT=&quot][3][/FONT] http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/093.sbt.html#009.093.564

I think that abundantly proves my case

 

[Kaliani]

'Islamophiles.'

Name-calling is completely unnecessary.

 

[By Grace]

'Islamophiles.' Name-calling is completely unnecessary.

Actually, it is a very positive name.

Perhaps you had another name in mind?

 

[Kaliani]

Disingenuous, you say?

IF there are several omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient creators of Heaven and Earth, THEN the law of noncontradiction can come into play.

But if there is only ONE such being, it is exactly the law of noncontradiction which denies your argument, By Grace.

A rose is a rose even if you call it an orange.

The person who says the rose is an orange is a liar or a lunatic.

So is the person who says God Almighty wants him to blow himself up.

 

[Kaliani]

Actually, it is a very positive name.

Then why do 'Islamophiles' need 'waking up'?

Are 'Islamophiles' perhaps biased in the favour of all Muslims?

Do 'Islamophiles' supposedly condone acts of terrorism that are committed in the name of Islam?

If 'Islamophilia' doesn't resemble the above then it may be a positive term.

One may wonder why 'Islamophile' is being deemed 'a very positive name' while not giving its 'very positive' definition.

 

[Kaliani]

BTW, why don't you get out more, Hammer, and let us know where all those "peaceful" Muslims are hiding.

http://www.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

http://www.muslimsforpeace.org

Seek and ye shall find.

 

[By Grace]

Then why do 'Islamophiles' need 'waking up'? Are 'Islamophiles' perhaps biased in the favour of all Muslims?
Do 'Islamophiles' supposedly condone acts of terrorism that are committed in the name of Islam? If 'Islamophilia' doesn't resemble the above then it may be a positive term.
One may wonder why 'Islamophile' is being deemed 'a very positive name' while not giving its 'very positive' definition.

Obviously, you did not bother to look up the definition, as I supposed you would. BTW it is no disgrace to admit that you are not knowing something
- Phile is a suffix, derived from Greek. It is a combining form meaning “lover of,” “enthusiast for” that specified by the initial element: Anglophile; bibliophile; demophile. Or in this case Islamophile.

Therefore, your complaining about something positive is somewhat silly, don't you think? Unfortunately the result of that silliness is that you have fallen on your petard, and have diminished your credibility as a poster. I post that not as a personal dig, but a statement that when you are trying to defend the indefensible by that I mean Islam, you need to appear to be someone who knows what you are posting about.

BTW Please answer the post that begins with this:

The God of the Bible calls Israel the "children of God, the apple of His eye.

The god of Islam, allah calls Jews and Christians infidels (kefir) and instructs followers to hate both the Jews and Christians.

I am wondering if you still claim those aspects about your god allah

 

[The Unbeliever]

Anyone have any idea how we can help to get this on tv, radio, anywhere?

http://www.rescuechristians.org/the-work-of-rescue-christians-in-pakistan/

Here's the website for an excellent video that just might wake up the Islamophiles on this thread:

http://www.investigativeproject.org/3782/grand-deception-discussion-panel-webcast

I don't know who the Islamophiles are (I don't support Islam), but why would obviously biased websites convince them?

 

[The Unbeliever]

The God of the Bible calls Israel the "children of God, the apple of His eye.

The god of Islam, allah calls Jews and Christians infidels (kefir) and instructs followers to hate both the Jews and Christians.

I think that abundantly proves my case

That's a nice piece of logic until you realize that the Qur'an also calls Christians and Jews people of the book and instructs followers to respect both the Jews and Christians. It's complicated, I know. The important thing to do when confronted with these seeming contradictions is to patiently inquire about them from a knowledgeable Muslim. There are often historical and other hermeneutical considerations that help clarify what you read.

 

[The Unbeliever]

Obviously, you did not bother to look up the definition, as I supposed you would. BTW it is no disgrace to admit that you are not knowing something
- Phile is a suffix, derived from Greek. It is a combining form meaning “lover of,” “enthusiast for” that specified by the initial element: Anglophile; bibliophile; demophile. Or in this case Islamophile.

Therefore, your complaining about something positive is somewhat silly, don't you think? Unfortunately the result of that silliness is that you have fallen on your petard, and have diminished your credibility as a poster. I post that not as a personal dig, but a statement that when you are trying to defend the indefensible by that I mean Islam, you need to appear to be someone who knows what you are posting about.

Are you an Islamophile? I suspect you are since you are so adamant that it is a positive label. Oh wait, you make it clear in your last paragraph that you actually intend it to be an insult. I wonder why Kaliani would find offense? By that count, disingenuous must be a positive label too. Can I apply it to you?

BTW, a defense against what you believe to be unjust criticism does not translate into an advocate of the same.

 

[Kaliani]

Unfortunately the result of that silliness is that you have fallen on your petard, and have diminished your credibility as a poster.

Interesting choice of words.

Btw, to anyone reading this, I am not calling for anyone to convert to Islam.

I just am not blinded to the fact that there are Muslims who are just as disgusted as anyone else with the acts of extremism and terrorism that plague Islam.

Perhaps 'it is no disgrace' too? You may disagree.

 

[Kaliani]

I am wondering if you still claim those aspects about your god allah

Since I never did in the first place, just why would I start now?

The aspects I described were the omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience of the creator of Heaven and Earth.

There is only one such Being.

Now, speaking lies and delusions of this Being doesn't make Him so. He isn't pro-terrorism because a madman says He is.

A rose is a rose even if you call it an orange.

 

[By Grace]

Since I never did in the first place, just why would I start now?

Well, it is really an all-or-nothing proposition. You are then creating your god as if you were ordering from a Chinese menu. I'll take this attribute from column A, and that from column B

The aspects I described were the omnipotence, omnipresence and omniscience of the creator of Heaven and Earth.

So you cherry pick three attributes of your god, and ignore the rest? That is not very "Muslim" of you

There is only one such Being.

True, and Hi is found ONLY in the Bible, not in the Qur'an.

Now, speaking lies and delusions of this Being doesn't make Him so. He isn't pro-terrorism because a madman says He is.

Wanna parse that? Or perhaps write it more clearly?

A rose is a rose even if you call it an orange.

By your rejecting what the Qur'an says as well as the Hadithim, you are effectively denouncing them both simultaneously. Are you sure you want to go that route? We both know that there are serious consequences for that, some of which involve blood spilling if you follow the edicts of the Qur'an.

 

[By Grace]

Are you an Islamophile? I suspect you are since you are so adamant that it is a positive label. Oh wait, you make it clear in your last paragraph that you actually intend it to be an insult. I wonder why Kaliani would find offense? By that count, disingenuous must be a positive label too. Can I apply it to you?

Just because you fail to look something up in the dictionary, and fail to understand the meaning of a word that does not give you the authority to call me a liar, the meaning of "disingenuous", AND THAT IS AN INSULT!

BTW, a defense against what you believe to be unjust criticism does not translate into an advocate of the same.

YOU were the one who first used the term, and then called me one without knowing its meaning. That is plain silliness.