It isn't Islamophobia when they really are trying to kill you!

[tessiewebb]

As compared to just not giving a rip as long as it doesn't happen to you

Gotta compliment you on this one, MM. Such a short statement and such a truth in it! Grabbed my attention enough to ask if I can quote it here and on another forum, okay with you?

Sure,no problem.

Thanks, don't be surprised to see it pop up from time to time,

 

[tessiewebb]

So we are supposed to accept violence from them

Right now, radical Islam has decimated a staggering number of its own, despite its avowed hatred for us. That's like the KKK going around killing more whites than non-whites. It's bizarre, amusing, even, from a certain point of view. Islam clearly isn't in THEIR OWN best interests. This is the realization that will change their minds. This is what we need to tell them, not join in the squabble for the race card.

Do you really think, Kallani, that Muslims have a clue as to how much "Islam clearly isn't in THEIR OWN best interests"? (This is a true question, not a rebuttal.) If it is even possible, it may give a whole new slant on non-Muslim approaches to Islamists. I seriously have my doubts, since to leave Islam one is in danger of being killed along with their whole family. The terrorists of Islam have done a remarkably effective job of instilling fear in both Muslims and non-Muslims through their atrocities.

Look at how PC it currently is to disregard the violence and hatred, the supremacist teachings of Islam, the outright lies of Islam's leaders in favor of shutting down any public display or knowledge of Islam's agenda! LIke this example:
Well, well, looks like Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi WAS directly involved with the attack in Benghazi that killed four Americans

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/06/26/


"On Wednesday, June 26, several Arabic websites, including Veto Gate, quoted the intelligence report, which apparently was first leaked to the Kuwaiti paper, Al Ra’i. Prepared by Mahmoud Ibrahim Sharif, Director of National Security for Libya, the report is addressed to the nation’s Minister of Interior.

It discusses the preliminary findings of the investigation, specifically concerning an “Egyptian cell” which was involved in the consulate attack. “Based on confessions derived from some of those arrested at the scene” six people, “all of them Egyptians” from the jihad group Ansar al-Sharia (“Supporters of Islamic Law), were arrested."



Also found at http://americansstandwithisrael.blogspot.com/2013/06/libyan-intelligence-muslim-brotherhood.html among other websites

 

[Destructus86]

I wonder how many here actually know a Muslim...personally.

True Muslim people are actually afraid of muslim extremists because they manipulate the muslim beliefs in order to do horrible things. A true Muslim is a peaceful, non-violent person totally devoted to their belief. Just like Christians. And just like how we as Christians have to deal with extremists in our belief...so do the Muslims in their belief.

 

[Potluck]

"True Muslim people are actually afraid of muslim extremists"

What I don't see is:

"True Christian people are actually afraid of Christian extremists"

There's a huge difference here. Even the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate killing those who don't believe as they do.

The Christian extremist protests a soldier's funeral while the Muslim Extremist put him there.

 

[Destructus86]

"True Muslim people are actually afraid of muslim extremists"

What I don't see is:

"True Christian people are actually afraid of Christian extremists"

There's a huge difference here. Even the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't advocate killing those who don't believe as they do.

The Christian extremist protests a soldier's funeral while the Muslim Extremist put him there.

Only in this country. There are violent "christian" extremists in some countries. But it doesn't matter either way...you don't judge people based on extremists. That's just sad and disgusting.

 

[Potluck]

But it doesn't matter either way...you don't judge people based on extremists. That's just sad and disgusting.

No, I suppose it doesn't matter after the glaring differences of reality are pointed out.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Just a little reminder, guys...
Please address the subject, not the people discussing the subject. You can explain your position and back your position up without making it personal.

 

[Destructus86]

But it doesn't matter either way...you don't judge people based on extremists. That's just sad and disgusting.

No, I suppose it doesn't matter after the glaring differences of reality are pointed out.

So we should victimize and condemn an entire people because extremists killed Americans.

 

[Potluck]

So we should victimize and condemn an entire people because extremists killed Americans.

If you can find anything I posted to that effect then perhaps you have a basis of argument.

The extremism being compared is like comparing someone with a Poptart shaped like a gloak to someone with an AK47.
And yes, the degree of extremism DOES matter. Murder and protest are indeed two different things some prefer to cover with one word, "extremism" for the purpose of equating one religion to another. Mostly in defense of Islam. It doesnt hold water when the facts are presented. The facts, the acts, differ greatly.

 

[Destructus86]

So we should victimize and condemn an entire people because extremists killed Americans.

If you can find anything I posted to that effect then perhaps you have a basis of argument.

The extremism being compared is like comparing someone with a Poptart shaped like a gloak to someone with an AK47.
And yes, the degree of extremism DOES matter. Murder and protest are indeed two different things some prefer to cover with one word, "extremism" for the purpose of equating one religion to another. Mostly in defense of Islam. It doesnt hold water when the facts are presented. The facts, the acts, differ greatly.

You do realize that many have killed in the name of our God right?
Let's see...

The Crusades, the witch trials, bombing of abortion clinics, how about the vast number of "christians" that have gone on killing rampages or the countless killed in other countries in the name of God.

Let's also ignore the fact that the percentage of extremists vs real Muslims is small.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Ok,you as is typical of your kind think that your perceptions are superior

I don't think I'm superior.

Well....Dude,your examples are a joke....Christians in Kenya,yeah Christians are big there,how many homosexuals have the killed because as you have stated its all about stats and frequency LOL

I don't think you understand what the issue is. The stats are projected at 100% because it effectively illegal to be homosexual. Uganda is following suit and also doing the same.

Christians in Russia ? please give me a break if that is the best you can do.

You are then completely unaware that Russia has started making laws to reinstate the Eastern Orthodox church as its state religion and enforcing laws to force it onto the populace. Dude this was major News and shocked Europe.

And nobody but you does this...

Of course not, you are just calling me ignorant. Probably just because I don't agree with nonsense that all Muslims are evil.

They get more than defensive,ever heard of PC ?

I know what political correctness is and I also know that you are just using that as a shield. You are making a statement that all Muslims are bad. Its common sense to point out that not every single person is the same and then ask you to provide evidence.

You said that Muslim violence occurs in countries with poor education and poverty,since you did not mention any other possible reasons it is reasonable to conclude that this is the reason/excuse you offer for Muslim violence.

No, you are contorting a question I asked and making up a straw man position. I asked you where these events are happening and where these people you are citing are coming from. I asked if third world nations where a possibility.

Exhausting our vocabulary again...the Muslim world has much wealth which is rarely if ever used to make the lives of ordinary Muslims better,it is however frequently used to pay people to strap bombs to their kids to kill the infidels.

Really? Where is your evidence? Or is evidence PC now?

 

[Potluck]

So we should victimize and condemn an entire people because extremists killed Americans.

If you can find anything I posted to that effect then perhaps you have a basis of argument.

The extremism being compared is like comparing someone with a Poptart shaped like a gloak to someone with an AK47.
And yes, the degree of extremism DOES matter. Murder and protest are indeed two different things some prefer to cover with one word, "extremism" for the purpose of equating one religion to another. Mostly in defense of Islam. It doesnt hold water when the facts are presented. The facts, the acts, differ greatly.

You do realize that many have killed in the name of our God right?
Let's see...

The Crusades, the witch trials, bombing of abortion clinics, how about the vast number of "christians" that have gone on killing rampages or the countless killed in other countries in the name of God.

Let's also ignore the fact that the percentage of extremists vs real Muslims is small.

And that's supposed to be in defense of the sole intent of the indiscriminate murder of innocents for the only purpose of reprisal against those who dont believe as they do?
Im not convinced.

 

[Milk-Drops]

You do realize that many have killed in the name of our God right?
Let's see...

The Crusades, the witch trials, bombing of abortion clinics, how about the vast number of "christians" that have gone on killing rampages or the countless killed in other countries in the name of God.

Let's also ignore the fact that the percentage of extremists vs real Muslims is small.

And that's supposed to be in defense of the sole intent of the indiscriminate murder of innocents for the only purpose of reprisal against those who dont believe as they do?
Im not convinced.

The dishonesty in this thread is rampant. Don't play coy, this thread is calling Muslims evil and using the acts of extremists as the reason to disdain all Muslims. Its common sense to point out that not all Muslims are the same and requesting people to back up their positions should be expected.

 

[Potluck]

You do realize that many have killed in the name of our God right?
Let's see...

The Crusades, the witch trials, bombing of abortion clinics, how about the vast number of "christians" that have gone on killing rampages or the countless killed in other countries in the name of God.

Let's also ignore the fact that the percentage of extremists vs real Muslims is small.

And that's supposed to be in defense of the sole intent of the indiscriminate murder of innocents for the only purpose of reprisal against those who dont believe as they do?
Im not convinced.

The dishonesty in this thread is rampant. Don't play coy, this thread is calling Muslims evil and using the acts of extremists as the reason to disdain all Muslims. Its common sense to point out that not all Muslims are the same and requesting people to back up their positions should be expected.

Im refuting the use of the word "extremist" as a term used as a one size fits all for the sake of defending a radicalized portion of Islam.

When doing so it appears to send people on their own witch hunt to find any and all dirt against Christianity to make that faith look as bad as the other.

And the Crusades was a struggle against Islamic aggression in the first place yet today its made out to be that Christians were on some kind of killing rampage.

And that in itself is another point. Maybe extreme Islam needs to come out of the past, out of the Dark Ages, when that sort of thing was common.

There's been at least 21,000 deadly attacks on innocent people, Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Hispanics, Blacks, Whites, children, gays, the educated, the ignorant, the weathy and the poor since 9/11/2001 all concieved and carried out on ANYONE that doesn't bend to their beliefs.

Now, if the peaceful Muslim would stop hiding behind victimization and actually rise up together and do something then maybe we'd have a chance to really join in unity against this threat. As it is though people are so blinded by their own bigotry to see the true nature of the slaughter thats occurring around them to be able to even entertain the thought of differing beliefs joining together to stop world terrorism.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Im refuting the use of the word "extremist" as a term used as a one size fits all for the sake of defending a radicalized portion of Islam.

Then why use the word you just used. Radicals, or better yet, talk about specifics.

When doing so it appears to send people on their own witch hunt to find any and all dirt against Christianity to make that faith look as bad as the other.

I really don't care about how bad Christianity or Islam looks in their holy books. We are talking about people here.

And the Crusades was a struggle against Islamic aggression in the first place yet today its made out to be that Christians were on some kind of killing rampage.

The Crusades was more about land, empire boundries, who controls the "holy" land, and trade routes. Religion became an easy propaganda tool.

And that in itself is another point. Maybe extreme Islam needs to come out of the past, out of the Dark Ages, when that sort of thing was common.

Its not Islam but the nations where its a high concentration that happen to have sever infrastructure and education problems. Its easy to create radicals in a country full of illiterate people.

There's been at least 21,000 deadly attacks on innocent people, Christians, Muslims, Catholics, Hispanics, Blacks, Whites, children, gays, the educated, the ignorant, the weathy and the poor since 9/11/2001 all concieved and carried out on ANYONE that doesn't bend to their beliefs.

By specific groups, and even on their own people. The thing is no is agrueing against the fact that radicals are doing this. The problem here is that its being claimed that all Muslims are supporting this. Its obvious that this argument is because some here are prefering to blanket blame instead of addressing the actual perpetrators.

Now, if the peaceful Muslim would stop hiding behind victimization and actually rise up together and do something then maybe we'd have a chance to really join in unity against this threat.

Maybe you should look for those people. Mainly because there are several groups.

As it is though people are so blinded by their own bigotry to see the true nature of the slaughter thats occurring around them to be able to even entertain the thought of differing beliefs joining together to stop world terrorism.

These are the words of a person who couldn't even do a simple Google search.

You can't be so disconnected that you didn't hear anything about the Green revolution, The Arab Spring, or the uprising after Benghazi.

 

[Mountain Man]

I don't think you understand what the issue is. The stats are projected at 100% because it effectively illegal to be homosexual. Uganda is following suit and also doing the same.

How many have they killed ? stats and frequencies please ? real not projected please, illegal to be a Homosexual ? and you equate this with suicide bombings and beheadings ? please provide evidence that Homosexuals have suffered either.

I know what political correctness is and I also know that you are just using that as a shield. You are making a statement that all Muslims are bad. Its common sense to point out that not every single person is the same and then ask you to provide evidence.

Can you quote me where I said that all Muslims are bad ? you protested earlier about me putting words in your mouth...based on that I can just as easily say that you are saying all Muslims are good.

No, you are contorting a question I asked and making up a straw man position. I asked you where these events are happening and where these people you are citing are coming from. I asked if third world nations where a possibility.

The words are yours,who is contorting...you are willing to excuse Muslim behavior and have made it obvious.

Really? Where is your evidence? Or is evidence PC now?

Where is your evidence that they are,poor people being paid to blow themselves up is quite well documented.

 

[jasoncran]

[MENTION=95489]Mountain Man[/MENTION] they have some poor that are families paid by the leaders but a lot of the time its the family that held hostage until the bomber does the deed. either way the muslims are still just as bad.

 

[Potluck]

The consistent implication that I'm somehow tossing all Muslims into one basket has no basis. If you want to say that about others there's nothing I can do about that.
Several groups isn't going to cut it and if I have to look for them then they're either too small or too isolated to be heard in the public square.
Where are the other Muslims? They aren't being quiet but are shouting raciasm loud and long because the fact is it's a whole lot safer to insult a Christian than it is to raise one's voice against the radicalization of their own religion.

They have to lead this fight and stand up for their beliefs. Without that there can be nothing accomplished to quell the increasing threat. And join with them we must but as it is all I see is a lot of arguing and slander from both sides of the fence.

Can they do that? Will they do that? Or are these questions too offensive to consider?

 

[By Grace]

Quote Originally Posted by By Grace View Post To set matters straight, it is NOT simple ignorance, but rather an ignorance of the science of statistics. There is a big difference in the two.

As compared to just not giving a rip as long as it doesn't happen to you

Curious

Did you understand the context of what I posted?
Do you understand that because statistics is a mathematical science, it can be used to demonstrate many things irrefutably?

 

[Mountain Man]

Quote Originally Posted by By Grace View Post To set matters straight, it is NOT simple ignorance, but rather an ignorance of the science of statistics. There is a big difference in the two.

As compared to just not giving a rip as long as it doesn't happen to you

Curious

Did you understand the context of what I posted?
Do you understand that because statistics is a mathematical science, it can be used to demonstrate many things irrefutably?

Yes I understand,but radical Muslim violence is in the headlines almost everyday...how could statistics be used to say it is a rare event ? who would believe it other than a Muslim or one sympathetic to their cause ?