It's Almost Sukkot

[joethemechanic]

September 30 - October 7, 2012

Time to think about building your Sukkah

 

[Adullam]

Chag sameach!:nod

 

[abide]

September 30 - October 7, 2012

Time to think about building your Sukkah

Joe are you Jewish? I will be keeping that special time this year with my son and his family

 

[jasoncran]

i dont think he is a hebrew but like some here does know about the feasts.

i may do that next year, at the local messianic temple.

 

[joethemechanic]

Joe are you Jewish? I will be keeping that special time this year with my son and his family

I'm like 1/8 Hebrew. Although I do have some family members who are 100%

 

[Hammer]

Where do you buy your animals to sacrifice?

 

[stovebolts]

Where do you buy your animals to sacrifice?

They are not allowed to sacrifice since there isn't a temple. It is forbidden. Closest they can come is to give money away... or maybe share a fish.

Sukkot prepares for Yom Kippur which is also coming up. I see you know very little about either. That's really too bad because they are both very rich in biblical teachings.

 

[stovebolts]

I'm like 1/8 Hebrew. Although I do have some family members who are 100%

Depends on if your mother or father was of Jewish decent. If it was on your mothers side, then your considered Jewish. If it's on your fathers side, your just a gentile needing conversion.

 

[tim-from-pa]

That's snazzy, Joe. Nice shelter.

Somewhere on the Internet I saw a Sukkot tent with the furnishings and a plush double bed. I mean, this was really fancy like an outdoor Hilton room.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

That's snazzy, Joe. Nice shelter.

Somewhere on the Internet I saw a Sukkot tent with the furnishings and a plush double bed. I mean, this was really fancy like an outdoor Hilton room.

Somehow I don't think the nomadic Hebrew nation lived like that for the 40 years they were on the road in the wilderness. I mean, the Hiltons weren't even around back then!

 

[Hammer]

They are not allowed to sacrifice since there isn't a temple. It is forbidden.

I've read Hebrew scriptures. Not only is it not forbidden, animal sacrifice is required in Sukkot. If someone is going to judaize, they should do it right.

I see you know very little about either.

I know more than you'd like.

 

[jasoncran]

yes jeff to the jews im not.mom is a gentile. but well if grandma was alive dont tell her or grandpa that.

 

[stovebolts]

I've read Hebrew scriptures. Not only is it not forbidden, animal sacrifice is required in Sukkot. If someone is going to judaize, they should do it right.



I know more than you'd like.

I was listening to an audio presentation from Chabad.org where they were talking about Yom Kippur and they made it very clear that they were forbidden to offer any type of animal sacrifice since the temple was destroyed. They also mentioned something about a fish because a fish wasn't mentioned in scripture as an animal which could be sacrificed, but it was a side note and I don't' recall specifically what the fish was for. Aside from that, they were allowed to make monetary sacrificial gifts as a substitute for the animal sacrifice.

Unfortunatly I have the audio on my Zune, and I don't have my Zune with me or I'd give you the reference. I did try looking on Chabad for it, but there are so many I want to make sure I get you the right one so you can validate it yourself.

If you want to learn about Sukkot, here is a great resource for you to learn.

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/4126/jewish/Sukkot.htm

If you want an Audio class on Sukkot, here is a great class for you to take.

http://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/1308355/jewish/Sukkot-Class.htm

As far as being a Judiazer, I think you misunderstood me as I am not advocating one become a Jew. What I am advocating is that when we talk about other religions etc, that we get our facts straight.

I do hope the above helps you a bit.

 

[stovebolts]

yes jeff to the jews im not.mom is a gentile. but well if grandma was alive dont tell her or grandpa that.

I'm only repeating what I read...

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/601092/jewish/Why-Is-Jewishness-Matrilineal.htm

Question:

Why does whether you’re Jewish or not depend on if your mother is Jewish? Why doesn’t the father’s Jewishness count?

Answer:

First, the biblical inference for matrilineal descent:

“You shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughter to his son, and you shall not take his daughter for your son, for he will cause your child to turn away from Me, and they will worship the gods of others†(Deuteronomy 7:3–4).

The implication is that children from such a union will be torn away from Judaism. Since the verse states “for he (i.e. a non-Jewish father) will cause your child to turn away . . . ,†this implies that a child born to a Jewish mother is Jewish (“your childâ€), whereas if a Jewish man marries a non-Jewish woman, the child is not Jewish—and as such there is no concern that “she,†the child’s mother, will turn the child away from Judaism.1

Although one’s Jewishness is dependent on the mother, other genealogical factors important in Judaism, such as one’s tribal affiliation, are contingent on the father. Thus, whether one is a Kohen, Levite, or Israelite depends on the father’s lineage.

The reason for this is as follows.

There are two basic components to a human being: (a) his essence, and (b) that which he projects forth, such as his talents and abilities. In Kabbalistic terminology, this second component is referred to as “revelations†of himself, as opposed to his essential self.

The creation of a child requires both a man and woman, but for entirely different functions. The mother provides the essence, while the father adds the potential for what the child will eventually project—the revelations of his self.

This is due to the different natures of male and female souls. The male soul emanates from G‑d’s emotive qualities, such as kindness, discipline and harmony—qualities that do not define G‑d Himself, but rather are the means through which He relates to His creations. The female soul, on the other hand, originates in G‑d’s attribute of malchut, royalty. According to the teachings of Kabbalah, malchut is rooted in the essence of G‑d that transcends all divine “revelations.â€

The essence of a Jew is his Jewish soul, his Jewish identity. This is inherited from the mother. His tribe—a revelation or projection, the way his Judaism is practiced and actualized—is begotten from the father.

 

[Hammer]

I was listening to an audio presentation from Chabad.org

That's not a biblical Judaism website. It's a talmudic Judaism website. Their doctrines are as irrelevant to the Bible as are Muslim doctrines. Why would you take a post-70AD "jewish" authority over the Bible? By what authority are Jews forbidden to sacrifice? The same authority that says Jesus isn't the Christ?

If you're going to practice the pre-Christ jewish holidays, you'll need eight animals to sacrifice. And, you've got your booths for this, not the Temple.

Christians don't practice the pre-Christ jewish holidays because we don't sacrifice. We have our one-and-all-sufficient sacrifice in Christ. We don't look foward to the coming of Christ, but back to arrival of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17. I choose not to live in shadows, but to live in the light of Christ, so there won't be any judaizing at my house, let alone psuedo-judaizing with talmudic judaism.

 

[stovebolts]

That's not a biblical Judaism website. It's a talmudic Judaism website. Their doctrines are as irrelevant to the Bible as are Muslim doctrines. Why would you take a post-70AD "jewish" authority over the Bible? By what authority are Jews forbidden to sacrifice? The same authority that says Jesus isn't the Christ?

If you're going to practice the pre-Christ jewish holidays, you'll need eight animals to sacrifice. And, you've got your booths for this, not the Temple.

Christians don't practice the pre-Christ jewish holidays because we don't sacrifice. We have our one-and-all-sufficient sacrifice in Christ. We don't look foward to the coming of Christ, but back to arrival of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17. I choose not to live in shadows, but to live in the light of Christ, so there won't be any judaizing at my house, let alone psuedo-judaizing with talmudic judaism.

So why not simply show me from scripture what your talking about.... lay it out from scripture... teach us from the biblical texts where you find sukkot and the 8 offerings and how you come to the conclusion animal sacrifices are still valid.

And btw, please tell me which part of the talmud your referring to. Would the sanhedrien be included as they aare part of the talmud both pre and post christ... as are most talmudic writings. And if we are going to omit anything from the talmud, dowe also omit anything from the talmud that is also affimed in our nt writings?

Were all listening....

 

[Hammer]

So why not simply show me from scripture what your talking about.... lay it out from scripture... teach us from the biblical texts where you find sukkot and the 8 offerings and how you come to the conclusion animal sacrifices are still valid.

Lev 23:33 The Lord said to Moses, 34 “Say to the Israelites: ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the Lord’s Feast of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. 35 The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work. 36 For seven days present offerings made to the Lord by fire, and on the eighth day hold a sacred assembly and present an offering made to the Lord by fire. It is the closing assembly; do no regular work.

That's eight days, with an animal sacrifice each day. This holiday is also only for those born in ancient Israel (v32). Could you not find this in the Bible?

And, I thought I throughly answered the question of animal sacrifices in my previous post.

And btw, please tell me which part of the talmud your referring to. Would the sanhedrien be included as they aare part of the talmud both pre and post christ... as are most talmudic writings. And if we are going to omit anything from the talmud, dowe also omit anything from the talmud that is also affimed in our nt writings?

Were all listening....

Talmudic Jews claim to follow the same religion of the Old Testament. Christians and Muslims claim this as well. Well, I'm a Christian, so guess which one I think really is following the Old Testament? I don't sacrifice because Jesus is my sacrifice. Talmudic Jews don't sacrifice because they don't follow the Old Testament as closely as Muslims do.

How about you put up something? I showed you in the Bible that eight sacrifices are required for the Feast of Booths. You show me where animal sacrifice is prohibited - your claim.

 

[stovebolts]

Please don't take an attitude with me...

Where were the offerings to be offered...

Paul affirms the teachings found within torah... and within the talmud. So did stephen. And they were christians... so why would I discredit what you call a talmudic jew? Have you ever been yoked to the torah? Did you once have to try and live within that covenant?

 

[Hammer]

Please don't take an attitude with me...

Where were the offerings to be offered...

When the Feast of Booths was given to the Isrealites, there was no temple. The sacrifices were done at the booths (AKA tabernacles).

Paul affirms the teachings found within torah... and within the talmud. So did stephen. And they were christians... so why would I discredit what you call a talmudic jew? Have you ever been yoked to the torah? Did you once have to try and live within that covenant?

It's disgusting for anyone to try to legitimize the Talmud. The Talmud dehumanises gentiles, promotes pedophilia, and curses Jesus. Paul did not affirm the Talmud. The Talmud wasn't even written until centuries after Paul died. And, no one who doesn't sacrifice animals has ever tried to live within the covenant of the Torah. (Orthodox Jews mock the Torah by sacrificing chickens, which are not an approved animal for sacrifice.)

 

[stovebolts]

When the Feast of Booths was given to the Isrealites, there was no temple. The sacrifices were done at the booths (AKA tabernacles).



It's disgusting for anyone to try to legitimize the Talmud. The Talmud dehumanises gentiles, promotes pedophilia, and curses Jesus. Paul did not affirm the Talmud. The Talmud wasn't even written until centuries after Paul died. And, no one who doesn't sacrifice animals has ever tried to live within the covenant of the Torah. (Orthodox Jews mock the Torah by sacrificing chickens, which are not an approved animal for sacrifice.)

I'd like us to be mindful of Paul's instruction and keep this in check ok?

1 Timothy 2:23 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Have some patience, and I'll try and give you a decent response tomorrow when I can try and put something together for you in regard to the festival.

As far as your view on the Talmud, I'm certain that there are Jews that fall within your description... but then there are also those who claim to be Christians that aint much better. What I am talking about, is what I read from Chabad.org, and nothing you've written above should be used to classify them as such.

Now then, as far as the Talmud, it is a broad collection of writings that predated Jesus. It's really nothing new. As far as the portion that was written after Jesus, you are correct, there was much written into the talmud after Christ.

If you dig into your history, you will see that not only Christians were being persecuted, but Jews as well. All the Sages were being put to death at an alarming rate and if you know about the Sages, they held the Oral Traditions.

Oral Traditions were never meant to be read in private, which is why they were never written down. They were to be discussed within community.. just so nobody could get any crazy ideas on their own. Oral Traditions were continued commentaries and stories passed down from generation to generation.

When the Sages were being put to death at an alarming rate, the Sages worried they would loose centuries of Oral Traditions, so they wrote them down and they became incorporated into the Talmud.

As far as Paul, we find in 1 Timothy 3:8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses,

Here is an article you may want to read. I can search the Talmud specifically if that's where you want to go with this so we can at least understand what Paul agreed with.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8513-jannes-and-jambres