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James: How dumb is this guy?

G

Georges

Guest
James the Just.....leader of the Chruch at Jerusalem, commissioned by Jesus, affirmed Bishop by the disciples....BROTHER OF JESUS. A man so revered that when Rome leveled Jeruselam in 70 AD, the people were convince it was because of the muder of James.

James lived with Jesus all of Jesus' life, and his own....

yet....

In the most serious of tenets in Mainstream Christianity, The Trinity......

James, never once......never once refers to his brother as God......for such an important tenet...he sure was ignorant of it...

If my brother was God....I'd be shoutin from the roof tops....."MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!! MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!!!

Instead James refers to God, and then he refers to the Lord Jesus. The King and the Prince...


Maybe there was a reason he didn't shout it from the hills....I really don't think it was because he was Dumb.....
 
Georges said:
James the Just.....leader of the Chruch at Jerusalem, commissioned by Jesus, affirmed Bishop by the disciples....BROTHER OF JESUS. A man so revered that when Rome leveled Jeruselam in 70 AD, the people were convince it was because of the muder of James.

James lived with Jesus all of Jesus' life, and his own....

yet....

In the most serious of tenets in Mainstream Christianity, The Trinity......

James, never once......never once refers to his brother as God......for such an important tenet...he sure was ignorant of it...

If my brother was God....I'd be shoutin from the roof tops....."MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!! MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!!!

Instead James refers to God, and then he refers to the Lord Jesus. The King and the Prince...


Maybe there was a reason he didn't shout it from the hills....I really don't think it was because he was Dumb.....
""""""""""HUH"""""""""""
 
Georges said:
James the Just.....leader of the Chruch at Jerusalem, commissioned by Jesus, affirmed Bishop by the disciples....BROTHER OF JESUS. A man so revered that when Rome leveled Jeruselam in 70 AD, the people were convince it was because of the muder of James.

James lived with Jesus all of Jesus' life, and his own....

yet....

In the most serious of tenets in Mainstream Christianity, The Trinity......

James, never once......never once refers to his brother as God......for such an important tenet...he sure was ignorant of it...

If my brother was God....I'd be shoutin from the roof tops....."MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!! MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!!!

Instead James refers to God, and then he refers to the Lord Jesus. The King and the Prince...


Maybe there was a reason he didn't shout it from the hills....I really don't think it was because he was Dumb.....

Georges
Now that your done bashing paul, its time to bash James.
I don't get you sometimes. What next, Bash Jude?

Georges. You who think you are jewish should understand this.
By calling himself a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, James correctly puts God and the Lord Jesus on the same level as equals. He honors the Son just as he honors the Father (John 5:23). James knew that “no man can serve two masters†(Matt. 6:24). Yet he spoke of himself as a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus. There is no contradiction here because God the Father and God the Son are co-equal.

This post goes to show your complete ignorance of the the word of God.
You need to stop now as your looking more and more foolish.
 
No, for j, George is NOT bashing James, he's bashing 'trinity'.

For Lewis, I'll put it a 'bit more clearly': Why would James refer to God and Christ as 'separate entities' IF they were the 'same'? If Jesus Christ was/IS God, then why would James refer to them SEPARATELY?

And not JUST James, Paul's letters NOTORIOUSLY start with the 'distinction' between God and Jesus Christ. Seems 'strange' that no one KNEW Jesus Christ was God until well AFTER the death of Christ. The Jews have NEVER known God to be a 'trinity'. Jesus NEVER mentioned a 'trinity', GOD never mentioned a 'trinity', the APOSTLES themselves NEVER mentioned a 'trinity'. Yet those that accept it INSIST that it IS the truth and one of the MOST important doctrines in Christianity. Very strange indeed, that God would HIDE this knowledge until those that 'already' possessed a 'triune' god, OTHER than the ONE TRUE GOD, could were READY to introduce it into Christianity. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that God would do this. For God does NOT want us ignorant of Him OR His Son. But we were warned that there would come a time when the 'truth' would lead EVEN the VERY elect astray. It that to 'come' or has it already 'past'?

MEC
 
Georges
This scripture came to mind in thinking of you. Its in the Old Testiment.
Prov 1:5-7
5 A wise man will hear and increase learning,
And a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,
6 To understand a proverb and an enigma,
The words of the wise and their riddles.
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The New King James Version. 1982 (Pr 1:5-7). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 
Imagican said:
No, for j, George is NOT bashing James, he's bashing 'trinity'.

Of course I'm not bashing James....James is the man....Paul is not (not bashing him mods, just pointing out the focus on authority should be on James).

For Lewis, I'll put it a 'bit more clearly': Why would James refer to God and Christ as 'separate entities' IF they were the 'same'? If Jesus Christ was/IS God, then why would James refer to them SEPARATELY?

Simple enough....and correct..

And not JUST James, Paul's letters NOTORIOUSLY start with the 'distinction' between God and Jesus Christ. Seems 'strange' that no one KNEW Jesus Christ was God until well AFTER the death of Christ.

Don't care what Paul's letters say....I'm concerned with what the blood brother of Jesus said....a person who should know Jesus better than any other man...they grew up together from childhood.

The Jews have NEVER known God to be a 'trinity'. Jesus NEVER mentioned a 'trinity', GOD never mentioned a 'trinity', the APOSTLES themselves NEVER mentioned a 'trinity'. Yet those that accept it INSIST that it IS the truth and one of the MOST important doctrines in Christianity. Very strange indeed, that God would HIDE this knowledge until those that 'already' possessed a 'triune' god, OTHER than the ONE TRUE GOD, could were READY to introduce it into Christianity.

Yep...

I find it HIGHLY unlikely that God would do this. For God does NOT want us ignorant of Him OR His Son. But we were warned that there would come a time when the 'truth' would lead EVEN the VERY elect astray. It that to 'come' or has it already 'past'?

MEC

Point being...James who was so close to Jesus...that Jesus appoints him the head of the Chruch....Sorry, it's not Peter...it's not John...it's not Paul....It's James...

James never refered to Jesus as God...and to hint as J did about God and Christ being equal because they are mentioned in the same sentence is a stretch...
 
jgredline said:
Georges said:
James the Just.....leader of the Chruch at Jerusalem, commissioned by Jesus, affirmed Bishop by the disciples....BROTHER OF JESUS. A man so revered that when Rome leveled Jeruselam in 70 AD, the people were convince it was because of the muder of James.

James lived with Jesus all of Jesus' life, and his own....

yet....

In the most serious of tenets in Mainstream Christianity, The Trinity......

James, never once......never once refers to his brother as God......for such an important tenet...he sure was ignorant of it...

If my brother was God....I'd be shoutin from the roof tops....."MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!! MY BROTHER IS GOD!!!!!!

Instead James refers to God, and then he refers to the Lord Jesus. The King and the Prince...


Maybe there was a reason he didn't shout it from the hills....I really don't think it was because he was Dumb.....

Georges
Now that your done bashing paul, its time to bash James.
I don't get you sometimes. What next, Bash Jude?

Are you reading the post? I thought it was obvious satire...Ima got it.... Contrary to your misunderstanding, I hold James in high esteem...the title was to capture your attention, not confuse you....sorry.

Georges. You who think you are jewish should understand this.

Not Jewish, don't pretend to be...I just understand the importance of understanding them....

By calling himself a bondservant of God (one person) and of the Lord Jesus Christ (a second person), James correctly puts God and the Lord Jesus on the same level as equals.

Not in the real world....Your statement would be correct if you would have said...

"James a bondsevant of God who is the Lord Jesus Christ".......

but there is no...."who is".....instead, the verse read's "and".

2 persons...and not the same...or equal. Except Christ, as the Memra of Jehovan in human form, according to the Jewish law of Agency, is God in representation without being Jehovah.


He honors the Son just as he honors the Father (John 5:23). James knew that “no man can serve two masters†(Matt. 6:24). Yet he spoke of himself as a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus. There is no contradiction here because God the Father and God the Son are co-equal.

Who haw.....of course you can serve 2 masters...if they have the same intent...Jesus and Jehovah are one (in intent), therefore James can be a servant to both...Your 2 masters only works when the intent of the 2 masters are opposite...(ie God and Satan)...hopes this clears your confusion on the matter.

This post goes to show your complete ignorance of the the word of God.


Glad you are here to straighten me out on it.... :P Keep up the good work...really, this is too easy. BTW, how is the pdf going?


You need to stop now as your looking more and more foolish.

Am I? hmmmmm maybe I'm too stupid to stop.....hmmmmm. Besides how else am I supposed to learn....if I quit asking stupid questions, how can I count on your genius...? Someones gotta make you look good.

Any more J? You are getting to be like your mentor.... :)
 
Georges
If you really understood Jewish culture as you claim you do, you would know that what James said by calling himself a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, James correctly puts God and the Lord Jesus on the same level as equals. He honors the Son just as he honors the Father (John 5:23).. If Jesus were not God he would have been quickly taken out and stoned to death. Personally I don't believe he new Jesus was God until after the resurection. You do believe in the resurection don't you? Oh, Never mind you can't because your still waiting for the messiah to come right? By The way how do explain Isa 53 ?
The latest Liberal Jewish bibles leave out Isa 53, but you know this already right.

Georges
You who are jewish or claiming to be jewish. Explain this to me. Infact anybody explain this to me.

In Mark 2:5-12
5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.â€Â
6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?â€Â
8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sinsâ€Ââ€â€He said to the paralytic, 11 “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.†12 Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!â€Â

The New King James Version. 1982 (Mk 2:5-12). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

We could forgive sins commited against us, but we can't forgive sins commited against others. Only God can forgive the sins of others right?
So if Jesus forgave others for their sins what does that make him?
A lunitic or God. Please explain this to me.


Expalin these verses to me also
Matt 14:33
33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, “Truly You are the Son of God.â€Â
Matt 28:17
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.

Those two verses are out of the very Jewish book of Matt. Do you think matt would have put them in there if Jesus were not God.

Now lets look at John
John 9:38
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!†And he worshiped Him.
John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

If Jesus were not God, why would he allow himself to be worshiped?
If Jesus was not God, why would he deserve the same honor as God?

I have many many more but for now this will suffice.

Jg
 
J,

Let me attempt to explain.

First, Jesus Christ IS The Son of God. God has placed MUCH of His power in the 'hands of Christ'. What God WILLs is by NO possibility questionable by US. Christ WILL one day be our judge. But only 'God' may judge men, right? WRONG. ANYONE that God chooses to offer this power is able to do WHATEVER God wills them to do. We have tons of examples of EXACTLY what I am offering; Moses is a PERFECT example of what I offer. Moses did NOTHING of his OWN, ONLY what the Father WILLED him to DO.

Now, if God would offer a 'simple man' such as Moses the power to perform the miracles that he did before Egypt, how MUCH MORE would He bestow upon His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? And, when we consider that the Son performed PERFECTLY according to His Father's will, just IMAGINE the power that has been bestowed upon Him. He will, one day, be the KING of this WORLD. That's QUITE a Kingdom, my friend.

So, if you realize that all those that oppose 'trinity' do NOT diminish The Son OR His power, you will PLAINLY see that there is NOTHING taken from Christ, only THAT MUCH MORE GIVEN. But NOT as the 'trinitarians' that would insist that God is NOT the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD, would USURP the authority of the Father, and 'create' their OWN God in Jesus Christ. They ARE TWO with ONE purpose and intent. Father AND Son. 'Trinitarianism' teaches a 'part' of this 'truth'. For they teach that there are 'three' persons in ONE. Yet in truth there IS Father/God, Son/Christ who was 'given' the authority to 'represent' the Father when He came in the flesh. We have 'evidence' and 'proof' of this when we accept what has been offered, such as the 'Spirit DESCENDING upon Christ' upon His Baptism. That Spirit, my friend, WAS The Spirit OF GOD/The Father.

Let me offer something that most 'trinitarians' DON'T understand. The BIGGEST problem with the WORD 'trinitariansim' is the word ITSELF. For this word was used by a pagan people to describe a pagan god PREVIOUS to the introduction of Christianity into the Roman culture, (the SAME culture that ALREADY had a 'triune god'. How 'bizaar is that'? Never existed in the understanding of God BY HIS OWN CHOSEN PEOPLE, yet a group of 'Gentiles' comes along, already possessing a 'triune' god in their PAGAN religion, and simply INTRODUCE this SAME concept into Christianity that had NEVER existed previously. God's OWN CHOSEN PEOPLE had never even HEARD of this 'triune' concept from ANY of the PROPHETS or from God Himself. Pretty suspect if you ask me.

And then if you study just a 'tad' of history concerning the RCC, you quickly find that MUCH of the 'ritual' that was 'added' to Christianity, at ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS 'TRINITY'), is NOT Biblical AT ALL. It's like they simply introduced Christ into their PREVIOUS pagan religions and built from there.

The RCC would deny this, of course, but the information is 'readily' available to ANY that choose to find it. Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Worshiping MARY, Calling a 'priest FATHER, worshiping statues, etc, etc, etc,,,,,,,, Check it out for yourselves. Even in some of their own information sources they offer that MUCH of their UNDERSTANDING is NOT Biblical, but 'created' by MEN.

Now, once one comes to this understanding of the formation of the RCC, it is OBVIOUS that when the Protestants 'separated' from them, they carried MUCH OF THIS RC BAGGAGE WITH THEM. Things that had been 'drilled' into their hearts and minds for CENTURIES, they were UNABLE to discern the 'truth' of, and simply carried it right along with them when they LEFT for a 'better' relationship WITHOUT all the CONTROL.The Control had ALREADY made it's mark though; in their 'UNDERSTANDING'.

It, (their understanding), had been 'tainted' to the point that they didn't even realize it. No different than those that 'thought' they were following the will of God durring the 'time of Christ'. Is there ANY doubt in ANYONE'S mind that PAUL 'thought' that he was following the 'will of God' by following the 'will of the religious leaders' that he worked for in his persecution of those that followed Christ. Perfect example of how EASY it is to perpetuate 'falsehood' if there is ENOUGH power at ones disposal to DO SO, and those that they have power OVER, have 'submitted' themselves to the WILL of those in power.

MEC
 
Shall we put on the blinders and follow those that do not believe that Jesus is God right into the ditch? 8-)

No, I don't think so. Their belief system is built on unbelief.

If they would get born again, they could follow the Holy Spirit into the truth of the Word of God, instead of ignoring it.

A simple study of the word Lord in the Old and New Testament in the Hebrew tongue shows that Jesus is Jehovah.
 
Georges said:
Point being...James who was so close to Jesus...that Jesus appoints him the head of the Chruch....Sorry, it's not Peter...it's not John...it's not Paul....It's James...

James never refered to Jesus as God...and to hint as J did about God and Christ being equal because they are mentioned in the same sentence is a stretch...

You are partially right and partially wrong. James was the head of the Church of Jerusalem. The apostles established five Sees- Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople and Rome.

The See of Rome wasn't established by Peter until much later and Jerusalem would have played a major role in the fist few decades of Christianity.

Next, James wasn't the brother of Jesus. Jesus had no siblings. The Trinity is a term used to define what the bible describes- three distinct persons, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which are made of one essense/substance.
 
Imagican said:
Let me offer something that most 'trinitarians' DON'T understand. The BIGGEST problem with the WORD 'trinitariansim' is the word ITSELF. For this word was used by a pagan people to describe a pagan god PREVIOUS to the introduction of Christianity into the Roman culture, (the SAME culture that ALREADY had a 'triune god'. How 'bizaar is that'? Never existed in the understanding of God BY HIS OWN CHOSEN PEOPLE, yet a group of 'Gentiles' comes along, already possessing a 'triune' god in their PAGAN religion, and simply INTRODUCE this SAME concept into Christianity that had NEVER existed previously. God's OWN CHOSEN PEOPLE had never even HEARD of this 'triune' concept from ANY of the PROPHETS or from God Himself. Pretty suspect if you ask me.

Which pagan god was that? Wherever you get your information from, it's false and I'll gladly disprove it.

The RCC would deny this, of course, but the information is 'readily' available to ANY that choose to find it. Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Worshiping MARY, Calling a 'priest FATHER, worshiping statues, etc, etc, etc,,,,,,,, Check it out for yourselves. Even in some of their own information sources they offer that MUCH of their UNDERSTANDING is NOT Biblical, but 'created' by MEN.

The fact that you mention these things indicates to me you are getting very bad, very false information about the history of Christianity.

Christmas is exactly that- Christ Mass. A day celebrated with a Mass 9 months after the celebration of the conception of Jesus. The Church celebrates the life of Christ through what is called a liturgical calender. Easter has nothing to do with paganism- it is a day remembering the resurrection of Jesus. The funny thing about Easter is that many people try to convince others it relates to a pagan holiday because easter is the same name of a pagan holiday. Yet, English speakers fail to realize they are the ONLY ones to call it Easter. In other languages it is simply called "Pascha". For whatever reason, people in England did not use or translate that word, but simply recycled one.

Halloween relates to All Soul's/Saint days. Catholics do not worship Mary, because she is human and not a deity. Catholics call priests "father" because in the early Church, just as many do now, they called each other brother and sister. Yet, the called those with leadership positions 'father', instead of brother because they saw them more in a spiritual paternal way, rather than in fraternal way. Catholics most certainly don't worship statues.

No Catholic belief was created by men, unless you believe the apostles weren't inspired- which we do.
 
Next, James wasn't the brother of Jesus. Jesus had no siblings. The Trinity is a term used to define what the bible describes- three distinct persons, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which are made of one essense/substance.
"""""""WHAT"""""""""He had no brothers and sisters ? Where did you get that garbage from ? And another thing, we are not going to have a long drawn out James bashing. I am telling you straight from the door.
 
Lewis W said:
Next, James wasn't the brother of Jesus. Jesus had no siblings. The Trinity is a term used to define what the bible describes- three distinct persons, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, which are made of one essense/substance.
"""""""WHAT"""""""""He had no brothers and sisters ? Where did you get that garbage from ? And another thing, we are not going to have a long drawn out James bashing. I am telling you straight from the door.

What about it? Jesus had no brothers or sisters. At the crucifixtion he gave his mother over to John to take care of her because she had no other children to do so.

If he had siblings, this would have been a tremendous insult and really wouldn't make sense if he had Christian brothers and sisters.
 
The Bible never gives an exact count, but Jesus’ siblings are mentioned in several Bible verses. Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 say that Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him. Jesus had four brothers: James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas (Matthew 13:55). Jesus also had sisters, but they are not named or numbered (Matthew 13:55-56). In John 7:1-10, His brothers go on to the festival. In Acts 1:14, His brothers and mother pray for Him. Later in Galatians 1:19, it mentions that James was Jesus’ brother. The most natural conclusion of these passages is to interpret that Jesus had actual blood siblings. There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are not the actual children of Mary and Joseph. They were obviously born after Jesus, because Jesus was born of a virgin (Isa 7:14; Luke 1:26-38).
 
Those are his spiritual siblings, not his physical ones.

Paul calls people his children. that doesn't mean they were his actual kids.
 
I get it from the bible.

"Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which should betray him," John 12:4

Judas and James were the son of Simon, not of Joseph and Mary.
 
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