Bible Study Jeremiah 4:23-26

[iLOVE]

What is the meaning of these scriptures?

Jeremiah 4:23-26 King James Version (KJV)

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

 

[reba]

I read them as God through the prophet saying Good grief i did this that and the other and you are still being a stubborn as a mule... So look out

 

[Eugene]

iLOVE, I enjoy your concern of these scriptures. I'll just attempt to shed some light on other scriptures, and times that may put some things together for you.

I really do not know the interpretation of Jer 4:23-26, but it seems full of symbolic language of God’s failing people in that just preceding these verses He is speaking of future judgment.

Jer 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. This occurs right in the middle of great tribulation.

For this present age Israel as a nation is divorced as we just read in Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

There was dispersion ahead, and the times of the Gentiles beginning with Nebuchadnezzar, and Daniel goes deeply into that with much yet to be fulfilled.

There is also coming a time when Israel will again be head of the nations, and as we read in Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. (Will this also be Rev 12:2?)

Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance. The fruition of this seems to be drawing near as we see so much turmoil in the Middle East.

 

[iLOVE]

The SDA teach Jeremiah 4:23-26 is during the millennium. Satan will be confined to this desolate earth with no one to tempt. The SDA teach at Jesus second coming the righteous and the wicked will be separated from each other "as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." The Saints will remain in heaven until the end of the 1000 years. While the wicked (the goats) remain dead until after the 1000 years.

Some scholars believe Jeremiah 4:23-26 is speaking of a pre-Adamic civilization was here on earth of men (some scholars say Angels) only before Adam and Eve...and the earth became without form after the rebellion of Lucifer and one-third of the angels? And why would Cain need a mark for protection from other men if he and his parents were the only ones on earth at the time?

 

[Malachi]

This passage could very well describe the condition of the earth at the end of the Great Tribulation, which will include cataclysmic cosmic judgements affecting the whole earth as well as the heavenly bodies (Mt 24:29; Heb 12:26,27): Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:.. Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

 

[Chopper]

I understand that Jeremiah is in travail over the destruction of Judea after the inhabitants were taken to Babylon.

 

[smaller]

The SDA teach Jeremiah 4:23-26 is during the millennium. Satan will be confined to this desolate earth with no one to tempt. The SDA teach at Jesus second coming the righteous and the wicked will be separated from each other "as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." The Saints will remain in heaven until the end of the 1000 years. While the wicked (the goats) remain dead until after the 1000 years.

Some scholars believe Jeremiah 4:23-26 is speaking of a pre-Adamic civilization was here on earth of men (some scholars say Angels) only before Adam and Eve...and the earth became without form after the rebellion of Lucifer and one-third of the angels? And why would Cain need a mark for protection from other men if he and his parents were the only ones on earth at the time?

The SDA stance is partly correct. Jeremiah notes clearly that "no man will be there." And Jeremiah is totally correct. The earth will in fact be turned into a fireball of judgment. And a new earth will replace it.

Peter speaks of the same thing, here, as did Nahum:

Nahum 1:5
The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

All the prophets were on the identical page and read quite consistently from the same Divine Script.

Yet, what they see will remain purposefully hidden from from all of us, as we are given to only see, as Paul saw, in PART. It was no different for any of these various "seers." They were all given "bits and pieces."

We know Jesus comes during the night, even at MIDNIGHT. This is representative of the power of DARKNESS that presently covers the flesh of ALL.

 

[smaller]

Jer 4:31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.

Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. This occurs right in the middle of great tribulation.

For this present age Israel as a nation is divorced as we just read in Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

There was dispersion ahead, and the times of the Gentiles beginning with Nebuchadnezzar, and Daniel goes deeply into that with much yet to be fulfilled.

There is also coming a time when Israel will again be head of the nations, and as we read in Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. (Will this also be Rev 12:2?)

Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance. The fruition of this seems to be drawing near as we see so much turmoil in the Middle East.

Zion is an allegorical term. It means 'dry ground.' Think of this as being those who "hunger and thirst" for RIGHTEOUSNESS in the body. It really has nothing to do with the people of Israel after the flesh.

Paul speaks of this same matter in Romans 8, in the manifestation of the Sons of God, the glorious liberty to come, and in other places, the revealing of Christ "in us."

Every believer who has ever lived is part of the travail of birth.

 

[smaller]

Some of these sights are going to be hard for most to "catch on" to, but here, in Rev. we see the "flood of the dragon" following after and pursuing the woman:

Revelation 12:16
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

This is actually a "picture" of the collective Body of the Church in the flesh in our respective/individual flesh, taking on this flood of the dragon in our own flesh, taking it to our respective crosses in judgments.

 

[Eugene]

Some of these sights are going to be hard for most to "catch on" to, but here, in Rev. we see the "flood of the dragon" following after and pursuing the woman:

Revelation 12:16
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

This is actually a "picture" of the collective Body of the Church in the flesh in our respective/individual flesh, taking on this flood of the dragon in our own flesh, taking it to our respective crosses in judgments.

Just a question concerning this collective Body of the Church you refer to; who is the Man Child she gives birth to that is caught up to God in Rev 12:5? Also according to you what is the timetable for this to occur? Thanks.

 

[Douglas Summers]

What is the meaning of these scriptures?

Jeremiah 4:23-26 King James Version (KJV)

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.

Hi Love, This is what Israel (The whole nation) will look like after God's Judgment on a disobedient people of God who have refused to repent. God will use the Gentile nations (in this case "Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon) to punish Israel. Israel had split into two kingdoms after King Solomon (David's Son) death,. Israel (10 of the 12 tribes) became the Northern Kingdom with it's capitol as Samaria, and the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin became the Southern Kingdom with Jerusalem as It's capitol.
The Kingdom of Israel immediately turned to idolatry and away from God. The Southern kingdom Judah worshiped the Lord at first, but later wound up as bad as the Northern Kingdom.

God had in Deuteronomy forewarned Israel of blessing and curses if they became a disobedient people, and that he would chastise them by heathen nations if they did not repent. (Deuteronomy Chapters 28, 29, and 30) foretells what will happen to Israel if they turn from God. This prophecy covers even the Holocaust of this past century. Ezekiel Chapter 36 prophecy gives a present day fulfillment of Israel's restoration.

Just a note* Israel as the northern kingdom was conquered by Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, But the southern kingdom of Judah lasted another 136 years, and was captured by the King of Syria Xerxes.
After the capture of Judah, the land became desolate and barren and the cities and temple were destroyed, just as Jeremiah warned through the word of God.

During this time period of the capture of Israel and Judah, came the events written in Daniel, Ezra, Ester, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi.

 

[for_his_glory]

Judah was being warned by Jeremiah to leave Judah and their evil practices of Baal worshipping during the reign of King Manasseh and King Amon (enemies from the North) as they neglected Gods covenant He made with Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 as they chose to followed after other gods, God was using Jeremiah to tell them to repent of their evil ways and return to Jerusalem and worship the God of Israel.

God said the people were stupid and had no understanding of God as they would rather live an evil lifestyle as they neglected Gods covenant He made with Abraham and and for this rebellion God would forsake His people and make their land desolate, but not yet make a full end to the land like He will during the seven trumpet and vial judgments God shows us in Revelations of His final great wrath on the earth.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

 

[Malachi]

I understand that Jeremiah is in travail over the destruction of Judea after the inhabitants were taken to Babylon.

Many prophecies have a double application. While Jeremiah was in distress, he was also foretelling the events which are yet to come. Joel's prophecy regarding the outpouring of the Holy Spirit (fulfilled on the day of Pentecost) includes a reference to the Day of the Lord (which is yet future).

 

[Malachi]

Zion is an allegorical term. It means 'dry ground.' Think of this as being those who "hunger and thirst" for RIGHTEOUSNESS in the body. It really has nothing to do with the people of Israel after the flesh.

"After the flesh" is pejorative. But redeemed and restored Israel will not be "after the flesh", and prophecies pertaining to Zion in the future must be taken in their plain, literal sense (not allegorical about something else). God will re-establish Jerusalem (Zion) on earth for the Millennium and beyond.

 

[Malachi]

This is actually a "picture" of the collective Body of the Church in the flesh in our respective/individual flesh, taking on this flood of the dragon in our own flesh, taking it to our respective crosses in judgments.

This is NOT a reference to the Church (which will already be in Heaven) but the believing Jewish remnant on earth during the Tribulation.

 

[Douglas Summers]

God said the people were stupid and had no understanding of God as they would rather live an evil lifestyle as they neglected Gods covenant He made with Abraham and and for this rebellion God would forsake His people and make their land desolate, but not yet make a full end to the land like He will during the seven trumpet and vial judgments God shows us in Revelations of His final great wrath on the earth.

Yes, that is why I added prophecy given by Ezekiel Chapter 36. It is about Israels restoration which has already been partially fulfilled.

 

[for_his_glory]

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her, but in all truth Revelations is about all of us that keep Gods commandments and the testimony of his word as Jesus has commissioned all of us to go out into the world to preach the gospel of grace, Matthew 28:18-20.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they rebelled against Him, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be taken captive around 605 - 537B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many people in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

During this seventy year exile God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually turned over to the Roman Empire.

The 490 years were up and the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen nation and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21.

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Douglas Summers]

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her, but in all truth Revelations is about all of us that keep Gods commandments and the testimony of his word as Jesus has commissioned all of us to go out into the world to preach the gospel of grace, Matthew 28:18-20.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they rebelled against Him, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be taken captive around 605 - 537B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many people in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

During this seventy year exile God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually turned over to the Roman Empire.

The 490 years were up and the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen nation and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21.

2Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[smaller]

Just a question concerning this collective Body of the Church you refer to; who is the Man Child she gives birth to that is caught up to God in Rev 12:5?

I believe it is the collective Body of Christ. This for example shows that those who have passed on await this as well:

Hebrews 11:40
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Also according to you what is the timetable for this to occur? Thanks.

I have no clue on timetable. I do watch for various signs on both sides of the ledgers and there are many. The end will come suddenly, when no one is expecting it.

 

[smaller]

This is NOT a reference to the Church (which will already be in Heaven) but the believing Jewish remnant on earth during the Tribulation.

I might suggest we'd have dramatically different perspectives on this subject.

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Technically speaking, in spiritual terms we are just as much Hebrew as Abraham was. "A Wanderer" looking for our City whose Builder and Maker is God.

Hebrews 11:10
For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.