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Jesus came to bring war

Classik

Classik

Member
I remeber the sermon...but not the exact title. The summary is something like: Jesus didn't come to pamper us in our sin or justify it. He had to turn everything upside down in order to bring Godly decency into the world. Radical Jesus?

He wasn't that...he forced change. He didn't pamper people. He brought a message of war...
 
Classik -

I'm not sure really how to follow this thread. I want to reply but I'm really at a tied-end on how to; can you elaborate more so we can have open dialog regarding your thread?

When you stated that Jesus brought a message of war, what was that message? My understanding is that Jesus came to bring a message of hope and of love for those that seek to deny themselves and take up their cross daily and be obedient to the Word of God.

- LJ
 
LJKP said:
Classik -

I'm not sure really how to follow this thread. I want to reply but I'm really at a tied-end on how to; can you elaborate more so we can have open dialog regarding your thread?

When you stated that Jesus brought a message of war, what was that message? My understanding is that Jesus came to bring a message of hope and of love for those that seek to deny themselves and take up their cross daily and be obedient to the Word of God.

- LJ
Click to expand...

think not i came to bring peace, nay but a sword. for as it written the father agaisnt the son and son against the mother.

this is in reference to when we believe. our own families will hate us.
 
I thought this is what Classik was referring too but I did not want to talk out of turn or over turn the wrong stone!
 
Matthew 10:34-39 Luke 12:49-53. I don't think the word here is "war," but rather division or sword. Isn't there imagery of the sword dividing (Luke 2:35 Hebrews 4:12) but not in battle (Luke 22:47-53 Matthew 26:47-56)?
 
providence said:
Matthew 10:34-39 Luke 12:49-53. I don't think the word here is "war," but rather division or sword. Isn't there imagery of the sword dividing (Luke 2:35 Hebrews 4:12) but not in battle (Luke 22:47-53)?
Click to expand...

I agree, I think I was blind sided by the term used "war" but I understood what the OP was referring too. I agree that Jesus did bring division to the world and the world would either accept Him or hate Him.
 
Is anyone really surprised considering that Jesus Originally came down as a Sacrifice to the Jewish people and that the Entire Book of Joshua Post exodus is God telling Joshua to Kill and Destroy all the cities and people in the land promised to them? This is actually was an executed attitude In both Judaism and Christianity. It wasn't until Paul that gentiles were even considered.

The context is that Christianity has a very tribal (this isn't derogatory but a sociological term for in groups) outlook and it wasn't until both Paul and Later enlightenment thinkers that this attitude changed.
 
Meatballsub said:
Is anyone really surprised considering that Jesus Originally came down as a Sacrifice to the Jewish people and that the Entire Book of Joshua Post exodus is God telling Joshua to Kill and Destroy all the cities and people in the land promised to them? This is actually was an executed attitude In both Judaism and Christianity. It wasn't until Paul that gentiles were even considered.

The context is that Christianity has a very tribal (this isn't derogatory but a sociological term for in groups) outlook and it wasn't until both Paul and Later enlightenment thinkers that this attitude changed.
Click to expand...


Meatballsub -

You're correct, but you left out the other part of the story - That question is why God did this through Joshua? God has a reason for everything, we can look at this at face value or we can study to see a deeper meaning. If one was to just look at it the way you detailed it here, then some may want to turn their backs on God.

We don't want to cause a stumbling block -

So without going into all the details of this I will summarize this for those that are interested in knowing why God did what He did.

Joshua forges a link between the Pentateuch and the remainder of Israel's history. Through three major military campaigns involving more than thirty enemy armies. the people of Israel learn a crucial lesson under Joshua's capable leadership: Victory comes through faith in God and obedience to His Word, rather than through military might or numerical superiority. The fact that although he (Joshua) is the leader of the Israelite nation during the conquest, the Lord is the Conqueror!
 
LJKP said:
Classik -

I'm not sure really how to follow this thread. I want to reply but I'm really at a tied-end on how to; can you elaborate more so we can have open dialog regarding your thread?

When you stated that Jesus brought a message of war, what was that message? My understanding is that Jesus came to bring a message of hope and of love for those that seek to deny themselves and take up their cross daily and be obedient to the Word of God.

- LJ
Click to expand...
Welcome to CF.net:wave
I think I remember his topic: Jesus didn't come to bring peace to the world.
(His coming brought about division: Some followed Him and some didn't. It was a kind of war.)
When he started it I was worried too. I had to concentrate in order to follow. He said HE came not to be part of the world's Fashion...but to deliver HIS own message which the Father has given HIM. And in order to achieve that HE had to completely thwart the 'partern of the world - an inconveniencing many.....and HIS own message led to HIS death.

See the problems HE had with both the Pharisees, Saducees, HIS own people etc. And had HE given in to the tradition of the people or pampered the Fashion of the world HE would not have achieved HIS purpose. CHRIST ONLY CAME TO ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM...(I would say the Father's package for the sinful world).

Got me really worried too
 
jasoncran said:
think not i came to bring peace, nay but a sword. for as it written the father agaisnt the son and son against the mother.

this is in reference to when we believe. our own families will hate us.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
It seems you were present that day.:lol
 
And I keep getting worried...what the people did wrong (I must be honest). They were just practising the OT until Christ came. They had to look back along the road they had gone to see if they had derailed...they believed they didn't. This was why the presence of Jesus was like a needle in their eye. See why the Jews fought against Him?

Assuming Jesus had delayed His first coming I believe the only message would still be the OT thing throughout the world. Indeed Christ shook the people
 
Drew said:
He certainly did not bring any kind of message that countenanced the use of violence to achieve ends.
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He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one". Luke 22:36

Entering the Temple, Jesus drove out all who were buying and selling there, and overturned the money-changers' tables and the seats of the pigeon-dealers. Matthew 21:12​
:o Sounds like violence to me.

I do agree however that the prime teaching of Jesus was to love one another. A vast improvement on the God of the OT smiting left right and center and holding grudges unto the third generation and punishing even the servants, children and townsfolk of a transgressor. Not very fair! Jesus obviously softened his heart a bit.;)
 
LJKP said:
Meatballsub -

You're correct, but you left out the other part of the story - That question is why God did this through Joshua? God has a reason for everything, we can look at this at face value or we can study to see a deeper meaning. If one was to just look at it the way you detailed it here, then some may want to turn their backs on God.

We don't want to cause a stumbling block -
Click to expand...
If someone is deeply troubled and leaves the faith because of what I just said, then I think its because they weren't aware of what the Books of Genesis up to Joshua actually talked about. More then likely they probably belong to a church that or group that prefers to overlook the old testament. Mainly because the Old Testament is a testament to the Barbaric nature of human society up and through the Roman Empire. Its bloody, speaking of wars, the genocide of many tribes, the testing of people's faith through massive acts of destruction and misery. Its history man, its not just Jewish history either. Early Human civilization was brutal and frought with behavior that we would find horrid today. Such as rape, genocide, slavery, lack of human rights, and death penalties/ exile for things we now consider petty crime. Its not a stumbling block man, its just how things used to work.



So without going into all the details of this I will summarize this for those that are interested in knowing why God did what He did.

Joshua forges a link between the Pentateuch and the remainder of Israel's history. Through three major military campaigns involving more than thirty enemy armies. the people of Israel learn a crucial lesson under Joshua's capable leadership: Victory comes through faith in God and obedience to His Word, rather than through military might or numerical superiority. The fact that although he (Joshua) is the leader of the Israelite nation during the conquest, the Lord is the Conqueror!
Click to expand...
The other lesson is that if you didn't worship Yahweh, you were destined to be destroyed by the nation of Isreal and not even the women and children would be spared. Your city would be burned to the ground and all your inhabitants will be killed or taken as slaves ( and not the let go after a few years thing, no its slaves for life deal and you would do work until you couldn't work anymore and it would be demeaning.) Those interested should read the book of Joshua. ;)
 
Aardverk said:
I do agree however that the prime teaching of Jesus was to love one another. A vast improvement on the God of the OT smiting left right and center and holding grudges unto the third generation and punishing even the servants, children and townsfolk of a transgressor. Not very fair! Jesus obviously softened his heart a bit.
Click to expand...
I used to think the same. I don't think HE changed from being God. Man discovered or could understand God's 'IF', 'AND', 'OR', 'THEN' options and went for the appropriate one. And that's why it seems to most of us that God frowned alot in the OT and smiled in the NT.
 
Meatballsub said:
If someone is deeply troubled and leaves the faith because of what I just said, then I think its because they weren't aware of what the Books of Genesis up to Joshua actually talked about. More then likely they probably belong to a church that or group that prefers to overlook the old testament. Mainly because the Old Testament is a testament to the Barbaric nature of human society up and through the Roman Empire. Its bloody, speaking of wars, the genocide of many tribes, the testing of people's faith through massive acts of destruction and misery. Its history man, its not just Jewish history either. Early Human civilization was brutal and frought with behavior that we would find horrid today. Such as rape, genocide, slavery, lack of human rights, and death penalties/ exile for things we now consider petty crime. Its not a stumbling block man, its just how things used to work.



The other lesson is that if you didn't worship Yahweh, you were destined to be destroyed by the nation of Isreal and not even the women and children would be spared. Your city would be burned to the ground and all your inhabitants will be killed or taken as slaves ( and not the let go after a few years thing, no its slaves for life deal and you would do work until you couldn't work anymore and it would be demeaning.) Those interested should read the book of Joshua. ;)
Click to expand...


I understand what you mean, we just have a different way of delivering the message from the Old Testament
 
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