Jesus....DID NOT....Use His God-Power

[Jay T]

There is a Bible verse, which I believe needs clarification.......

1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world".

Every Christian should confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.
BUT....this confession must be more than mere lip service.


Christ was a real person, who was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, and died on the Cross.
AMAZINGLY, a person can confess all this, yet still be a 'deceiver and an antichrist' !

According to the Bible, the confession must be more specific.....we must confess that Jesus Christ is come in 'THE FLESH'.

What does this really mean...that Jesus Christ is come in 'THE FLESH' ?

What kind of flesh did Jesus Christ become, when He became a man ?
Hebrews 2:14 " Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

Notice the word: 'children' ?
The children does not ....apply to Adam & Eve, for they were never babies.

Now, are you thnking ?
Adam & Eve were created with a sinless nature.....BUT, after Adam & Eve sinned......their children, had a fallen nature.

Now look at Hebrews 2:14 again , with this thought in mind......
2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil"

Christ's mission...was to destroy the works of the devil....with the same nature you and I have.

Satan temps a person thru the fleshly desires we possess, right ?

The Bible says of Jesus Christ.....
Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin".

BUT....Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"

Here is where the title of this post comes in: "Jesus ....DID NOT....use His God-Power while on earth"

Jesus Christ said of HIMSELF:
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


Now, I want to point out here, that I believe that God (the All- POWERFUL), was dwelling inside the human body of Jesus Christ....BUT Jesus refused, to use that God-Power that was inside of Himself.

WHY ?

Because Christ was to live as a man.....and conquer sin, as a man, as the example, for us to follow.

Satan understood this fact VERY CLEARLY !

Thus was VERY FIRST temptation, by satan !

Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Satan understood that ...IF....he could get Jesus to use His own God-Power, to make Himself food......satan would have won !

"Satan saw that he must either conquer or be conquered.
The issues of the conflict involved too much to be entrusted to his confederate angels.

He must personally conduct the warfare.
All the energies of apostasy were rallied against the Son of God.
Christ was made the mark of every weapon of hell. {DA 116.3}

Many look on this conflict between Christ and Satan as having no special bearing on their own life; and for them it has little interest. But within the domain of every human heart this controversy is repeated".

(Desire of Ages, pg. 116, by E. White)

 

[Dave...]

Jesus, while being fully man and fully God, veiled Himself as God. A Light veiled by human flesh. But to say Jesus didn't ever use His power is a bit of a stretch, no? The casting out of demons and physical healing He gave were to demonstrate His power over evil. One of the proofs that He was who He said He was.

[Jesus lived in the flesh] with the same nature you and I have.

Careful, Jesus did not have a sinful nature. If I remember corectly, before Moses gave the Law to the people, they were condemned occording to this sinful nature alone as Paul tells us in Romans.

This thread could go in so many different directions. There are quite a few things that I disagree with, or would need to be further explained for me from the OP.

I don't even know if I have time to talk about these things. For now, consider it my two cents worth.

 

[Guest]

I agree - Jesus did not use his 'inherent' "God-Power". Jesus relied totally on the Holy Spirit.

In fact Jesus tells us that we will be able to do MORE than he: John 14:11-13.

"Truly, Truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father."

 

[Jay T]

Careful, Jesus did not have a sinful nature.

Remember that Jesus was man....as well as God.
The human part of Himself, was not God, but like man.
Because the Bible says He was made like unto his brethern.

It is the human part of Jesus Christ that had to overcome any and all temptations.....because the Bible says that God CANNOT be tempted with evil, therefore, the man part of Jesus had the sinful nature.

The God part of Jesus, could NOT interfere !

 

[Guest]

Please provide a reference where Jesus had a sinful nature.

The question is: Did Jesus have the ability to sin, and not excerise is? or did Jesus not have the ability to sin?

In other words, did Jesus not sin because he could not sin or because he chose not to?

 

[Easyrider]

THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE LIFE OF CHRIST

1. He (Jesus) was born of the Spirit (Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:18-20).
2. He was filled with the fulness of the Spirit (John 3:34).
3. He was led by the Spirit (Matthew 4:1).
4. He was empowered by the Spirit (Luke 4:14).
5. He was anointed by the Spirit (Luke 4:18).
6. He spoke and taught by the Spirit (Luke 4:18).
7. He healed the sick by the Spirit of God (Luke 4:18).
8. He cast out devils by the power of the Spirit (Matthew 12:28)
9. He was justified (vindicated) by the Spirit (I Timothy 3:16).
10. He was offered up on Calvary by the Spirit (Hebrews 9:14).
11. He was resurrected by the Spirit (Romans 8:11, I Peter 3:18).
12. He gave commandments to the disciples by the Spirit (Acts 1:2).
13. He baptized and empowered the church by the Spirit (Acts 1:5, 8)
14. He directs and governs the church by the Spirit (Revelation 2:7, 11).

 

[Jay T]

Please provide a reference where Jesus had a sinful nature.

The question is: Did Jesus have the ability to sin, and not excerise is? or did Jesus not have the ability to sin?

The Bible says Jesus was tempted like us.....
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

QUESTION: What is the value of tempting someone who cannot fall to sin ?

In other words, satan was created the most intelligent of all created beings, so why would he have bothered to tempt Jesus Christ to commit sin, if the was absolutely, no possibility, of it happening ?

In other words, did Jesus not sin because he could not sin or because he chose not to?

One of the missions of Christ was to disprove satan's implication, that NO MAN could keep the commandments of God....
42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make [it] honourable.

Jesus had to prove satan wrong....using a human body, with all its frailitites, and weaknesses....
Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh".

 

[Solo]

Remember that Jesus was man....as well as God.
The human part of Himself, was not God, but like man.
Because the Bible says He was made like unto his brethern.

It is the human part of Jesus Christ that had to overcome any and all temptations.....because the Bible says that God CANNOT be tempted with evil, therefore, the man part of Jesus had the sinful nature.

The God part of Jesus, could NOT interfere !

What does this Scripture mean to you Jay T?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

 

[Guest]

What does this Scripture mean to you Jay T?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:9

I would suggest that the Greek word that the KJV (I assume that is what you are using) translates 'doth not commit' is better translated 'practice'.

poieo - to make
with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
to be the authors of, the cause
to make ready, to prepare
to produce, bear, shoot forth
to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
to make a thing out of something
to (make i.e.) render one anything
to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
to (make i.e.) declare one anything

poieo - is used 12 times throughout 1 John - all times refering to 'practice'.

I would suggest that this verse, placed into context of 1 John 3:1-10 - is teaching us that a child of God should strive for righteousness, and not continue to practice sin. Ratherthan teaching 'sinless perfection' it teaches us that a child of God will sin less and less.

 

[Jay T]

I would suggest that the Greek word that the KJV (I assume that is what you are using) translates 'doth not commit' is better translated 'practice'.

poieo - to make
with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
to be the authors of, the cause
to make ready, to prepare
to produce, bear, shoot forth
to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
to make a thing out of something
to (make i.e.) render one anything
to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
to (make i.e.) declare one anything

poieo - is used 12 times throughout 1 John - all times refering to 'practice'.

I would suggest that this verse, placed into context of 1 John 3:1-10 - is teaching us that a child of God should strive for righteousness, and not continue to practice sin. Ratherthan teaching 'sinless perfection' it teaches us that a child of God will sin less and less.

You are correct.
As I've mentioned in the past, it is the practice of 'known' sins.....that the Christian is to avoid....such as Sunday worship services.

 

[Fnerb]

The Bible says Jesus was tempted like us.....
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.

QUESTION: What is the value of tempting someone who cannot fall to sin ?

In other words, satan was created the most intelligent of all created beings, so why would he have bothered to tempt Jesus Christ to commit sin, if the was absolutely, no possibility, of it happening ?

Franz Piper writes in the Christian Dogmatis:

"Was it possible for Christ according to His human nature to commit a sin? We emphatically deny this possibility. Not because of the sinlessness of the human nature of Christ in itself, for Adam, too, was created sinless and nevertheless succumbed to temptation, but because Christ’s human nature never existed as a separate person, but from the beginning constitutes one Person with the Son of God. To assume that the man Christ could sin is assuming that the Son of God could sin, with whom the man Christ constitutes one Person. They that assume the peccability of the man Christ thereby relinquish, whether they know it or not, the incarnation of the Son of God, the unio personalis of God and man, and substitute for it an unio mystica. Some object that impeccability would exclude temptability, would make of Christ’s temptation a sham battle. However, Matt. 4:1 ff. does describe a real battle"

If we agree that Jesus was true God and true man, wouldn't the fact that he is divine in nature make it impossible for him to sin?

(I may be in a bit over my head in this discussion, but nothing like throwing yourself into the ring, eh? : :wink: )

 

[cyberjosh]

Jesus used his divine power to walk on water, read people's minds, and to knock over the Roman soldiers who were coming to arrest him. What do you mean he didn't use his power? What Jesus did was conform his will to his Father's, because being a seperate part of the Trinity he has a distinct personality and his own will. But he said to his Father "Not my will but yours be done." Nonetheless he willed to heal people, and was stirred with compassion within himself and used his divine power to heal people.

You will need to elaborate on your position.

 

[Guest]

The power that Jesus Christ used to do those things (except for knock down Roman soldiers - could you cite a reference please?) is available to all of us - the Holy Spirit.

Remember Christ empitied himself - Phil 2:6-8

"who, although He existed in the form of God, did not reqard equality with God a thing to be grasped (ie: utilized), but emptied (laid aside) Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of man. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obeiedient to the point of death, even death on a cross)

 

[Fnerb]

The power that Jesus Christ used to do those things (except for knock down Roman soldiers - could you cite a reference please?)

I believe this is John 18:4-6

 

[Guest]

I believe this is John 18:4-6

Thank you for the reference, though I do not believe this suggests that they were 'knocked down' by an unseen force.

It says that "they drew back" - this would imply that 'they' did it on their own.

 

[Fnerb]

Thank you for the reference, though I do not believe this suggests that they were 'knocked down' by an unseen force.

It says that "they drew back" - this would imply that 'they' did it on their own.

I suppose that depends on your translation:

6When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground. (NIV)

6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. (KJV)

And it appears the Greek also states "falling to the ground"

 

[Guest]

I suppose that depends on your translation:

6When Jesus said, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground. (NIV)

6As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. (KJV)

And it appears the Greek also states "falling to the ground"

Either way - I would suggest it was a response to the authority that is within Christ - again, I believe this same authority can be in us as well, through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fnerb]

Either way - I would suggest it was a response to the authority that is within Christ - again, I believe this same authority can be in us as well, through the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 17:20:

He replied, "Because you have so little faith, I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

I still don't see where in scripture I am told that while I am living on this earth, I can be sinless (in the true sense).

 

[Guest]

I am not arguing that we can be sinless. Rather as we rely on the Holy Spirit we can sin less and less.

 

[Solo]

I would suggest that the Greek word that the KJV (I assume that is what you are using) translates 'doth not commit' is better translated 'practice'.

poieo - to make
with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
to be the authors of, the cause
to make ready, to prepare
to produce, bear, shoot forth
to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
to make a thing out of something
to (make i.e.) render one anything
to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
to (make i.e.) declare one anything

poieo - is used 12 times throughout 1 John - all times refering to 'practice'.

I would suggest that this verse, placed into context of 1 John 3:1-10 - is teaching us that a child of God should strive for righteousness, and not continue to practice sin. Ratherthan teaching 'sinless perfection' it teaches us that a child of God will sin less and less.

Let us look at the Greek of 1 John 3:9.

πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου αμαρτιαν ου ποιει οτι σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω μενει και ου δυναται αμαρτανειν οτι εκ του θεου γεγεννηται Byzantine Majority Text

πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου αμαρτιαν ου ποιει οτι σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω μενει και ου δυναται αμαρτανειν οτι εκ του θεου γεγεννηται Textus Receptus

πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου αμαρτιαν ου ποιει οτι σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω μενει και ου δυναται αμαρτανειν οτι εκ του θεου γεγεννηται Tischendorf 8th Edition

πας ο γεγεννημενος εκ του θεου αμαρτιαν ου ποιει οτι σπερμα αυτου εν αυτω μενει και ου δυναται αμαρτανειν οτι εκ του θεου γεγεννηται Westcott - Hort

Let us look at the Greek text, the literal, and various English translations of the phrase "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin", and "he cannot sin, because he is born of God".

(NOTE: I have underlined each of these phrases in the Greek texts above. Notice that the four Greek Texts whereby the verious English texts are derived are identical.)

In the first phrase, "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin", the Greek word ποιει. The Greek word ποιει is a present, active, indicative verb in the third person apparently a prolonged form of an obsolete primary; is defined as "to make or do". This verb is an action verb which is joined by the particle ου which is the negative action of the verb. In other words the translation "to make or do" would be reversed to mean "to not make or not do". The object of this verb and particle is the noun αμαρτιαν which is translated sin. Therefore the simple translation with no bias interpretation would be "to not make sin" or "to not do sin".

In the second phrase, ""he cannot sin, because he is born of God", the Greek word δυναται is a verb defined "to be able or possible". When this verb is added to the same particle that is used in the first statement, ου, the definition of the verb translation is "to not be able, or not possible". The object of this verb and particle combination once again is the Greek word αμαρτιαν translated as sin. Once again, the simple translation with no interpretation bias is "to not be able to sin, not possible to sin".

The majority of English translations give the meaning of 1 John 3:9 as "Those born of God do not sin; for HIS seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

The other translations of the 1 John 3:9 Scripture follows:

• NASB: No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (NASB ©1995)[/*:m:3733f]
• GWT: Those who have been born from God don't live sinful lives. What God has said lives in them, and they can't live sinful lives. They have been born from God. (GOD'S WORD®)[/*:m:3733f]
• KJV: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.[/*:m:3733f]
• ASV: Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.[/*:m:3733f]
• BBE: Anyone who is a child of God does no sin, because he still has God's seed in him; he is not able to be a sinner, because God is his Father.[/*:m:3733f]
• DBY: Whoever has been begotten of God does not practise sin, because his seed abides in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God.[/*:m:3733f]
• WEY: No one who is a child of God is habitually guilty of sin. A God-given germ of life remains in him, and he cannot habitually sin--because he is a child of God.[/*:m:3733f]
• WBS: Whoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.[/*:m:3733f]
• WEB: Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God.[/*:m:3733f]
• YLT: every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. [/*:m:3733f]

The Greek word ποιει (poieo) is translated as do 7 times, make 2 times, transgresseth 1 time, and commiteth 1 time. This verb is translated as to do, to make, to commit, or to transgress in all occurances in 1 John.

When one understands what takes place at the period of being born again, and the New Creature that is created that CANNOT sin, then the Scriptures become crystal clear as to what Jesus Christ really did on the cross at Calvary. Hopefully all will come to believe so that they too will become born of God.