Jesus didnot fulfill his prophecy in the bible..Can anyone answer it!!!!!!!!

[rick007]

You are correct. If Jesus (Yeshua) died on a Friday, then what he said about 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb would make him a false prophet. However, he did not die on a Friday, but on a Wednesday. It's tradition that has him dying on a Friday. Each year I go thru this over and over again like a broken record regarding

brother it is New what you are telling,your scholars has recently invented that it was actualy wednesday(to made the prophecy came true),if we deduct 3 days and 3 nights from sunday morning,we ought to get wednesday as an answer.It is not difficult from here to get your 3 days and 3 nights to resolve the chriastian dilemma.the audience like you are already flooded with free magazines and literature,gave mr. fahay a resounding applause.Now brother i ask you ,how was it possible for the past 2000 years,that the chriastian world had not known their religious arithmetic to get their sum right???even today the bulk of christendom commemorate a GOOD FRIDAY instead of a GOOD WEDNESDAY.who has decieved the 12,00,000,000 christian around the world,including the roman catholics who claims an unbrokeen chain of popes from the first pope(peter) to the present pope,into falsely celebrating GOOD FRIDAY.i know you will say the devil.i say if the devil can succeed in confusing the christian ,and keep them confused for 2000 years in the most simple aspects of faith,how much easier it would be for the devil to mislead them in things concerning God???

 

[rick007]

with all your assumptions still it is 3 days and two nights..unfulfilled prophecy.jesus said 3 days and three nights.

 

[tim-from-pa]

You are correct. If Jesus (Yeshua) died on a Friday, then what he said about 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb would make him a false prophet. However, he did not die on a Friday, but on a Wednesday. It's tradition that has him dying on a Friday. Each year I go thru this over and over again like a broken record regarding

brother it is New what you are telling,your scholars has recently invented that it was actualy wednesday(to made the prophecy came true),if we deduct 3 days and 3 nights from sunday morning,we ought to get wednesday as an answer.It is not difficult from here to get your 3 days and 3 nights to resolve the chriastian dilemma.the audience like you are already flooded with free magazines and literature,gave mr. fahay a resounding applause.Now brother i ask you ,how was it possible for the past 2000 years,that the chriastian world had not known their religious arithmetic to get their sum right???even today the bulk of christendom commemorate a GOOD FRIDAY instead of a GOOD WEDNESDAY.who has decieved the 12,00,000,000 christian around the world,including the roman catholics who claims an unbrokeen chain of popes from the first pope(peter) to the present pope,into falsely celebrating GOOD FRIDAY.i know you will say the devil.i say if the devil can succeed in confusing the christian ,and keep them confused for 2000 years in the most simple aspects of faith,how much easier it would be for the devil to mislead them in things concerning God???

Hi Rick, yes you basically answered it --- the devil. Not that Christians are "bad" and deceptive in and of themselves, but because they have been deceived (Revelation 12:9). As a matter of fact, I'm listening to a 2.5 hour coast-to-coast broadcast right now and they are talking about how the elite exerted control over the masses since ancient time by religion (i.e. God told me...."). Now that religion is not as important to many, they exert control over others now in other ways. For example, if you visit the health forum you will see me blast medications and what they say about health. They give us bad air now, bad drugs, bad food, and this is to dummy everyone down and make them sick even though they say following their advice will make one "healthy".

This is Satan's Kingdom which was always at war with God's (Yahweh's) Kingdom and it will culminate as the coming beast and false prophet in the final war. And most people were always blinded under such control.

This is the only reason I can think that many believe that 3 is not really 3, but something else, it does not make sense any other way --- not because they are bad, but because they were told that. I get impatient, however, when they are shown the truth that some just keep kickin' and arguing the obvious they are so deceived.

 

[Free]

Just a wisecrack (as I am always the jokester type), but what always amazes me about people is they frantically try to fit 3 days and 3 nights into a Friday crucifixion, or even a Thursday one and swear their math makes sense. But if they did anything else by the calendar, say go on a cruise, and they were promised a 3-day cruise and the captain had them home in that same time period, they would certainly know that was not 3 days and gripe soon enough!

hahaha...it might be a joke for you but this is what is the basic of christianity.one of the most outstanding prophecy of jesus which was unfullfilled.Actualy i dont believe that jesus could ever give any false prophecy as being a muslims a already accepted jesus as one of the powerful messenger of Allah(God),without any kind of proof from the christian side.but what i am actually trying to say the scripture(bible) is a work of many historian who has changed the word.even the revisers of the bible i.e RSV has thrown many fabricated things from the bible.there .as Allah says in the Quran "Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby"(quran-2:79).

Not only are you in error with your argument against the biblical text, it does not matter when one celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, the simple fact remains that he actually died and literally rose again, just as he said he would.

 

[rick007]

Not only are you in error with your argument against the biblical text, it does not matter when one celebrates the resurrection of Jesus, the simple fact remains that he actually died and literally rose again, just as he said he would

2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith reba

 

[tim-from-pa]

I just want to say one thing. I'm not sure what just happened here with all the deleted posts, but even if someone wants to come in to insult the Christian faith, let me just caution that the premise of this thread is true. If we continue to believe in tradition over the bible, and show the world that we can't count to 3, then how stupid does that make the average Christian look? These are exactly the kinds of things I fear making the unbeliever have a point and reject Christianity because of some of the stupid things people believe which have no basis in scripture.

See my avatar? That's my hero Sir Isaac Newton. What the leftist, so-called open-minded and agnostic educational system does not want you to know is that Sir Isaac Newton was more of a Christian theologian (he was originally thinking of going into the ministry) than a mathematician or scientist. Yet, he was all that, too, so it blows the theory that one cannot be a Christian and yet a scientist. And if one rejects Sir Isaac Newton as a good scientist and mathematician, then one can reject the other things he discovered involving optics, mechanics, calculus and the like. Wow, if we did not have those things, this would be a pretty dumb world the way they think Christians are and incapable of understanding. What can I say? A Christian discovered those things --- sounds like a sort of Universal poetic justice to me.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

NOT by western standards but by the jews standard it is still unfullfilled prophecy.you better check it out from my previous replys.

You better check out Jewish manners of reckoning during the era and not assume someone who disagrees with you is not as well informed. We might actually be better informed.

 

[tim-from-pa]

For the record, I think that the 3-days and 3-nights controversy all hinges on one important fact:

There are those who take it figuratively, including "inclusive reckoning" to make them fit, and there's those like me who take it as a literal 3 days and 3 nights.

If the first group is correct, then you can make Christ die and raise again "any day of the week" because it can always be manipulated to fit (i.e. both Thursday and Friday believers swear that their way of counting is the proper inclusive reckoning way).

If the latter is correct, one has to agree that only Wednesday crucifixion works, as from Thursday until Saturday in the tomb is the only way possible if Christ arose by Sunday.

Inclusive reckoning says that if you have 4 fence posts in a straight line each holding a yard long of fence, then you have 4 yards.

Literal length says only 3.

I understand that people understand even mathematics differently as testified by the fact when our board brainteaser Classik puts up a math problem, everyone gets something different.

So the moral of the story, I guess, is instead of counting to 3 (which ought to be straightforward), we have to define which system of counting Christ intended. I have my reasons for believing it's literal, but I guess others don't believe that way.

However I will say one thing. No matter how we count, make sure the death, the burial, and resurrection occur in accordance with the feast days. Since they are separate, as the feasts are on separate days, this forces each event to occur at sundown, (i.e the burial and resurrection) if we are counting these as days. When I have these events occurring at sundown, to be honest I have trouble counting them as 3 days by inclusive reckoning. So, from my end, the issue is farther than how to count to 3, but all the other models proposed have Christ in the tomb on the wrong day, or him rising at the wrong time of the day, or whatever. This is far more critical IMO than counting to 3.

 

[Sparkey]

Regarding the time-frame for the total time of interment (how long total He was "in the belly of the great fish") I agree that Jesus spoke of the "sign of Jonah," that it is specifically three days and three nights. Now, I'm posting here to solicit agreement between my current thinking and our resident expert, tim-from-pa, and not to stir controversy. It seems to me that Scripture from the four gospels (and elsewhere) may be used to establish a precise time for the resurrection. There may be some controversy about what holy day we are speaking about, but the term "first day of the week" is very specific.

From that, we could turn back the "clock" to exactly three days and three nights to find the time that Jesus was buried. This should also be the 14th of Nisan on that calendar and should be confirmed but we need to understand that that day, the 14th, can float by a single day too. So we're not really trying to pinpoint a mathematical exact point but rather the range of a line, its possible range of start point and its possible range of endpoint.

Is that correct? I'm not going to try to go further than that in this thread but would like a conformation. tim-from-pa? What say you, please? I'm looking for correction and/or affirmation and will appreciate either.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Regarding the time-frame for the total time of interment (how long total He was "in the belly of the great fish") I agree that Jesus spoke of the "sign of Jonah," that it is specifically three days and three nights. Now, I'm posting here to solicit agreement between my current thinking and our resident expert, tim-from-pa, and not to stir controversy. It seems to me that Scripture from the four gospels (and elsewhere) may be used to establish a precise time for the resurrection. There may be some controversy about what holy day we are speaking about, but the term "first day of the week" is very specific.

From that, we could turn back the "clock" to exactly three days and three nights to find the time that Jesus was buried. This should also be the 14th of Nisan on that calendar and should be confirmed but we need to understand that that day, the 14th, can float by a single day too. So we're not really trying to pinpoint a mathematical exact point but rather the range of a line, its possible range of start point and its possible range of endpoint.

Is that correct? I'm not going to try to go further than that in this thread but would like a conformation. tim-from-pa? What say you, please? I'm looking for correction and/or affirmation and will appreciate either.

In a nutshell, that is correct. We know firstfruits occurred on a Sunday. Also, we know he had to be arisen by firstfruits, not at dawn hour. He was newly alive for the whole day of the 18th. This is demonstrated by the ceremony and Quoting from the book: "The Temple - Its Ministry and Services" by Alfred Edersheim, page 204-205:

"When the time for the cutting the sheaf had arrived, .... just as the sun went down, three men each with a sickle and basket formally set to work. But in order to clearly bring out all that was distinctive in the ceremony, they first asked the bystanders three times each of these questions: `Has the sun gone down?’ `With this sickle?' `Into this basket?' 'On this Sabbath?’ - and lastly, `Shall I reap?’ Having each time been answered in the affirmative, they cut down barley to the amount of one ephah, or ten omers or three seahs, which is equal to about three pecks and three pints of our English measure. ..... Though one ephah, or ten omers, of barley, was cut down, only one omer of flour, .... was offered in the Temple."......


The cutting of the wave sheaf pictures when Jesus was cut out of the earth, resurrected from death after being in His tomb for three days and three nights (Matthew 12:40.) This happened shortly after the Sabbath had ended (at sunset) on the beginning of the ‘first day of the week’. The priest waving, elevating or lifting up of the wave sheaf "omer" in the Temple pictures Jesus’ ascension and being presented to God the Father in heaven and the Father accepting Jesus as the firstfruits offering. Jesus is the first of the firstfruits (1 Corinthians 15:20-23) a singular offering of one. Thus Jesus fulfilled the Wave Sheaf offering.

So we can see by these quotes he arose as Sabbath ended and as the Firstfruits began to fulfil firstfruits as I've been saying.

By our time, that's Saturday evening, say about 6PM (I won't mince or quibble over an hour or two since they had no clocks back then). Saturday evening about 6 PM counted backwards 3 days comes to Wednesday evening 6PM which was when he was interred by. This was the start of Unleavened Bread to fulfil that whole day the same way he fulfilled firstfruits. Thus, he died hours earlier on Wednesday. You have that right, simple as that and no need to make it complicated, and I'm not sure why there's some here who think this is complicated. Frankly, it makes the most sense to me more than any other time line as they all leave me scratching my head.

 

[Domenic]

<dir><dir>This is an excellent question by the OP. It is a mature safe way to examine
Scripture. Take the subject, beat it with a slug-hammer, soak it in acid for a
week, leave it in the middle of a freeway, and let 100,000 cars run over it,
then throw it in the back yard, and let the dog chew on it for a month. If it
holds together, you can bet your eternal life it is true.
The evening of Jesus death was the start of the Sabbath. They could not
leave the bodies up during the Sabbath. They had to be taken down, and buried
before sundown.
The manner in which the Jews counted days, were, any part day, was counted as one full day. Thus, the day Jesus died, was one full day. It makes the three days.
</dir></dir>

 

[Sparkey]

I don't see the ministry of reconciliation of the various gospel accounts (and other Scripture) in the same way that you appear to characterize it. That being said, I would agree. There's room for differing opinions. This is not a salvation issue. It is good to know that "He is Risen!" for truly this is what our Bible says.

 

[jgredline]

I just want to say one thing. I'm not sure what just happened here with all the deleted posts, but even if someone wants to come in to insult the Christian faith, let me just caution that the premise of this thread is true. If we continue to believe in tradition over the bible, and show the world that we can't count to 3, then how stupid does that make the average Christian look? These are exactly the kinds of things I fear making the unbeliever have a point and reject Christianity because of some of the stupid things people believe which have no basis in scripture.

See my avatar? That's my hero Sir Isaac Newton. What the leftist, so-called open-minded and agnostic educational system does not want you to know is that Sir Isaac Newton was more of a Christian theologian (he was originally thinking of going into the ministry) than a mathematician or scientist. Yet, he was all that, too, so it blows the theory that one cannot be a Christian and yet a scientist. And if one rejects Sir Isaac Newton as a good scientist and mathematician, then one can reject the other things he discovered involving optics, mechanics, calculus and the like. Wow, if we did not have those things, this would be a pretty dumb world the way they think Christians are and incapable of understanding. What can I say? A Christian discovered those things --- sounds like a sort of Universal poetic justice to me.

I completely agree. Well said and your arguments are excellent.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

... even if someone wants to come in to insult the Christian faith, let me just caution that the premise of this thread is true. If we continue to believe in tradition over the bible, and show the world that we can't count to 3, then how stupid does that make the average Christian look?

In all my years as a Christian -- and I'll admit, I'm not as old in the faith as some here -- I've never had anyone outside the faith raise the issue of how many days Christ was in the grave. I think this concern, Tim, is a straw man. Sorry.

Now, as to these alternate arguments about Thursday or Friday crucifixion, they raise more questions than they answers. For example, note that in Luke 23:56, the women who had purchased spices after the first Sabbath returned and prepared the spices, then “rested on the Sabbath.” The argument states that they could not purchase the spices after the Sabbath, yet prepare those spices before the Sabbath—unless there were two Sabbaths. With the two-Sabbath view, if Christ was crucified on Thursday, then the high holy Sabbath (the Passover) would have begun Thursday at sundown and ended at Friday sundown—at the beginning of the weekly Sabbath or Saturday. Purchasing the spices after the first Sabbath (Passover) would have meant they purchased them on Saturday. No merchant would have broken a Sabbath to sell them burial spices for a "criminal."

The problem with the Wednesday view is that the disciples who walked with Jesus on the road to Emmaus did so on "the same day” of His resurrection (Luke 24:13). The disciples, who do not recognize Jesus, tell Him of Jesus' crucifixion (Luke 24:21) and say that “today is the third day since these things happened” (Luke 24:22). Wednesday to Sunday is four days. Though an explanation could be made that they may have been counting since Wednesday evening at Christ's burial, which begins the Jewish Thursday, and Thursday to Sunday could be counted as three days, it is not a valid one, because Christ had to be buried before sundown, when the Sabbath began, and whether the debaters on this thread accept it or not, the truth is that the Jewish people -- in fact, all the people of the Mideast at that time -- counted a partial day as a full day. We do that ourselves. If we don't see a close friend from Monday evening to early Thursday morning, we might exclaim, "I haven't see you for three days!" But it's been barely over two.

In the grand scheme of things, it really is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. I know many of you will protest that, but it simply is not a big deal. If it was, as I mentioned above, the secular world would have glommed onto it as a major argument that the Lord "lied." If it were very important, then God's Word would have clearly communicated the day and timeframe. What is important is that He did die and that He physically, bodily rose from the dead. What is equally important is the reason He died -- to take the punishment that all sinners deserve. John 3:16 and 3:36 both proclaim that putting your trust in Him results in eternal life. Whether He was crucified on a Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday, that truth remains.

 

[Sparkey]

For example, note that in Luke 23:56, the women who had purchased spices after the first Sabbath returned and prepared the spices, then “rested on the Sabbath.”

To look at Luke 23:56 is also to look at Mark 16:1,24:1 and cf. John 19:39 with Ex 20:10.

Can we say that we have enough information to know exactly when the spices were purchased? It's an honest question and not a disagreement. I like to defer to the opinions of my brothers and sisters unless that opinion violates principles found in Scripture.

The disciples, who do not recognize Jesus, tell Him of Jesus' crucifixion (Luke 24:21) and say that “today is the third day since these things happened” (Luke 24:22).

Within this statement, may we make a demand about what they were talking about when they said, "these things"? Surely there were things that happened, from their point of view, three days ago. Since I am not expert on Greek, I'd just ask, are we sure that the word "things" is plural? If we are (and I'm not saying we are just pointing to a thought that occurs to me), but if we are sure that there is more than one thing referenced then it is no longer reasonable to insist that they were talking about only one thing: the "Test of Jonah," and our thoughts should rightly consider that they may have included this but may also have included other "things".

In the grand scheme of things, it really is not all that important to know what day of the week Christ was crucified. I know many of you will protest that, but it simply is not a big deal.

I can't tell you how much I agree with what is said here. Every time that I look toward this "mystery" (so-called) I find abundant evidence that Christ is risen and that we are to expect to be led in his footsteps. There is cause for rejoicing so much more than there is cause for bickering, not saying that you are doing this at all, but some do.

 

[Slider]

the truth is that the Jewish people -- in fact, all the people of the Mideast at that time -- counted a partial day as a full day.

It doesn't matter what the Jewish people counted -- if they indeed did. You keep saying that as a fact, but I seriously doubt it.... Especially since they were so keen on keeping the sabbath exactly.

But still no.... It doesn't matter. It only matters what GOD says is a full day, because that's who said it. Jesus himself said that there were 12 hours in a day, so that's the only definition I need. However.... Ummm.... There ISN'T 3 days and three nights between Friday and Sunday anyway, so it's a moot point.

Now, does God count 90 minutes of a day as a full day? Not when he said there were 12 hours in a day and not when Jas 1:17 says there is no variablelness in God.

 

[Sparkey]

Well, I am just guarding myself here so that I don't insist that I am right and the only person who is right in the face of opinions of others that are not in harmony with my personal opinion. This attitude conforms with admonitions such as "where ever possible try to get along peaceably with others," and the first-fruit of the Spirit of God is peace. There are weightier matters to consider here. The discussion is similar to the "how many days in a week" discussion we see in the Christianity and Science as well as in the YEC forums so often. The weightier matters strain the purpose of the Word when flies and gnats are weighed against camels.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
New International Version (NIV)

So although I know that the very first fruit of the Spirit is love, and "peace" is the "third-fruit" but I also know that grace is given to you for me when I slaughter the Scripture like that and misstate myself declaring Peace as the first-fruit.

 

[Slider]

Hey Sparrowhawke,

What about the weightier matters when Jesus said those that worship him MUST worship him in spirit and in truth? I won't deny anyone the spirit except that the true spirit was said to be the spirit of truth.... But what about "Truth"? Believing in a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday ressurection is a lie. It's been proven several times over. EVEN IF the possibility that perhaps the Jews looked at 3 hours down to an half hour as a whole day (a point of view that many seem to force down our throughts) it still isn't 3 days and 3 nights. God said he could not lie.... He can send lying spirits, but he himself cannot lie.

That being said, even if we believe Jewish fables (which we were warned not to believe) AT BEST it's only 3 days and two nights, and Jesus wasn't even in the tomb when the sun hit it on Sunday! The ONLY way everything works is and everything is accounted for is if Jesus died on Wednesday and ressurected on Saturday. That's the only way Jesus didn't lie and that's the only way this prophecy is fulfilled to the tee.

And for you of those that don't think it matters to get it all right.... Well, why not dump your beliefs and come on over to the side that does have it all right, if it doesn't matter? That ain't gonna happen because people as so entrenched with the Friday theory. Despite how rediculous it is, they believe it because it's status quo....The Pharisees were status quo too.... And Jesus pissed them off.

But why does it matter? Because Jesus said we must worship in Truth....No one who believes in the Friday crucifixion and Sunday ressurection can claim they are worshipping in truth.

If you still believe that, "well, the Jews considered a part of the day as a whole day!" I challenge that belief! But even if it is true, it ain't three days and three nights. And it wasn't just a normal Jew.... Jesus was only half Jewish. And he didn't speak fondly of his Jewish nature when compared to his Godly nature. When Jesus said 3 days and 3 nights, he meant it. And don't forget.... 3 days and 3 nights can't be achieved by your model! I don't even have to quote James 1:17 to note that.

So sparrow... You following the Bible when it says worship in spirit and in truth?

 

[Sparkey]

What about the weightier matters

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

New International Version (©2011)

Because Jesus said we must worship in Truth

Quote the Scripture and see exactly what Jesus was speaking about. Pretty sure you're speaking about a conversation between Jesus and a woman of Samaria who came to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, "Give me to drink." He went on to tell her, "God is a Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in truth..." Jesus spoke to her about how many husbands she had, after she had asked him for the Water of life. He didn't speak about gnats, nor flies except in criticism of those who strained them while swallowing camels. We are told to put each other in rememberance of such things. She wasn't straining. She wanted what Jesus told her about, the water that He could give where no one would thirst again. Jesus also says in John 8:32, "And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free..." Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit and not about the fine points except to say "you should also," while he scolded the Pharisee that stumbled others as they announced to the world that they were holier than thou (they actually said that) and that others were to clear the path in front of them for they alone had the "truth". Jesus is the Truth! He is the Way! He is the Life and He is the Door! No man goes to the Father except by Him. These are the weightier (salvation message) matters that I'm speaking about. Not about seasons or days or holidays where we are commanded to let no man judge us.

The weightier matters are three: Justice, Mercy and Faithfulness. Not gnats, flies or tithes of mint, dill and cumin.

 

[Slider]

What about the weightier matters

Quote the Scripture and see exactly what Jesus was speaking about.

You don't want me to do that.... You do a search on what are "weightier matters" but ignore when Jesus says "Must" The word "Must" doesn't mean you have a choice.... "weightier matters" means heavy lifting, but it ain't required like "Must" is....