Jesus didnot fulfill his prophecy in the bible..Can anyone answer it!!!!!!!!

[Slider]

Unfortunatley in the New Testament, there are many examples of additions and copying errors. The latter versions have far fewer than the KJV, but nonetheless, some have persisted. Or perhaps you can explain why Matthew is the only one of the four gospels that adds the phrase " ... and three night" whereas the others only refer to three days?

And there we have it.... You are going to believe the Bible we have is in error instead of believing what it says. I'm sorry to be accusative, but all indications seem to me that is what you are saying. Like I said, if this WAS an addition, then the same addition was made in the book of Jonah... Is that right?

John is the only Gospel that mentions the wedding at Cana and the water turned to wine.... Shall we believe that was an addition too simply because it isn't in the other 3 gospels? Mark is the only one that says the women appeared at the rising of the Sun, shall we believe that was an addition too?

 

[Sparkey]

No, the OP in this thread claimed

Okay, TND, I'll need to ask you to continue to disagree with me (that's your choice) but to do so via the Private Message option that we both have. I will point to the title of the thread and leave it at that and will no longer be willing to contend with you about little things when we are off subject like this. Consider this a request from a Moderator and know that it is binding on me as well as you. I have reviewed the OP, am in agreement with you in that (as well as so many other things) and am willing to stand corrected.

Cordially,
Sparrow

 

[cherovis]

I'm not too smart but I think I have your answer. For the Jews, a new day begins in the evening at about 6pm. Early in the morning is mid day for the Jews. If Jesus was placed in the tomb on a Friday, it could have been on the eve of Thursday for us, Friday for them. This would account for 3 days & nights in the tomb & rising on the first day, still on day 3. Get it ?

Although Matthew Jesus will arise in 3 days, Luke claims on the 3rd day. So Jesus must have stayed in the tomb for 3 nights & part of the 3rd day. So since the day begins at sundown around 6pm. a day for the Jews was from 6pm until 6pm the following day. So if Jesus was crucified on Thursday, then it became Friday on the night of Thursday when He was placed in the tomb. This is the first night Jesus spent in the tomb even though it's still the first day. Remember, for the Jews, the evening comes before the morning until 6pm. The next morning is still Friday there until 6pm that evening, then it becomes Saturday at 6pm. So that's 1 day Jesus has been in the tomb. Now Jesus spends the 2nd night in the tomb until morning of the same day Saturday. Later that evening, the Saturday becomes Sunday & now Jesus has been in the tomb 2 days & 2 nights, going into His 3rd night. In the morning will still be the 3rd day, Sunday, the day of the resurrection. See ?

listen brother,for the jews friday ends at 6pm.and after 6 pm it is saturday.
so,friday day starts at 6 am in the morning before that it was friday night. according to our calender it was still friday day because we know satrts after 12pm in thursday night.so from the jews point of view and be more lenient with you suppose friday afternoon he was taken off from the cross and buried..so he was buried (death)for friday day(1 day),saturday night(1 night),saturday day(2 days),sunday night(2 nights),and sunday early morning (And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun Mark 16:2) mary magdalene he (jesus) was not there.so still the prophecy is unfulfilled.because it is only 2 days and 2 night.and jesus gave this prophecy to the jews acording to their calender.
And according to our calender it was still a friday day because it starts 12pm in thursday night.so friday day he was buried(1 day),friday night(1 night),saturday day(2 day),saturday night(2 night) and early in the sunday morning same as discussed above. so still it is 2 days and 2 night.

I'm sorry if I opened a can of worms. It's not worth the discord to debate about it. I won't debate the bible with anyone. So I'm out of this one. But I do want to say, I think you should recheck your calculations one more time. You mention that Friday began at 6am which is incorrect. Perhaps a mis-print. And whatever the calculations, I was not there, I believe what the bible tells me, & if it were all that significant, God would have been sure to tell us. I think the resurrection is the more important message which brings life to us all. Anyone can die. Only God can raise the dead.

 

[Sparkey]

I've beaten my head against the barriers found in the various calendars before (and didn't mind doing it). It's possible that I'll do it again, someday. Just not here. Not unless I was asked politely and for the sport of watching a bird go splat against a strong glass window he or she had smacked before. That's fun too although I would be that bird.

Sparrow :

 

[reba]

Gen_1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

[Slider]

Sorry, I'm pretty mean.... I should not bring this thread to the top of the list.... But I gotta be me, and "Me" says don't just let folks ignore this! Don't let them ignore truth! And the "me" in me points fingers and I point the finger at those who have a lot of unanswered question in this thread!

It's too important. God really likes for those to worship in spirit and in truth. I have no doubt many are sincere and worship in spirit.... Fine, ya got that covered, but what about truth?

And if anyone wants to call me "mean" for not letting this thread die, consider Isaiah who preached naked for 3 years to make a point! I ain't going to let this rest!

We have folks that deny the book of Matthew is genuine, refuse to address certain verses in the Bible, and they just hop, skip and jump to another topic! Folks, don't listen to a man who denies the Bible is the Word of God...

 

[evenifigoalone]

I personally agree with the day being Wednesday, but I don't think it really matters whether someone thinks Jesus was crucified on Wednesday or Friday. IMO, some things just aren't so black and white, and it's impossible for us as individuals to be correct about everything--including our view of Biblical doctrine. I think we can learn from each other, but we shouldn't try to unnecessarily dictate what someone else should believe. And in the end, it's really just between the individual and God, isn't it?

We have folks that deny the book of Matthew is genuine, refuse to address certain verses in the Bible, and they just hop, skip and jump to another topic! Folks, don't listen to a man who denies the Bible is the Word of God...

I've done some research relating to the topic of errors in the Bible in recent months. I've researched from various sources of differing viewpoints. I do plan to do more research. But the conclusion (for lack of better word) that I have so far, from the reading I have done, is this:
There are minor, very minor, errors in the Bible.
Copying the manuscripts over and over over the centuries does leave some room for human error, plus you have to take into account translating from one language to another. (A word-for-word translation from one language to another is pretty much impossible.) I don't think I agree with what was being said about that phrase in Matthew being a human addition, but I do think there are some minor errors in the Bible. None that affect actual doctrine, none that are important, that would mess anything up; therefore, God's Word was not marred just because humans make mistakes. What He wanted/s us to know is still there, intact.
There are actually fewer differences among the available Biblical manuscripts than there are among the manuscripts for Homer's Illiad and Odysee.
So yes, God's Word has been preserved. He just doesn't always work the way we think He does.
That's the conclusion I came to, anyway.

But, I don't want to pull this thread too far off topic. Sheesh, I shouldn't even be replying. I won't be able to see the response or engage in whatever conversation comes from it until I get back from my trip. Speaking of which, I need to go to bed so I can wake up in time to leave. Good night.

 

[Free]

and the fact that the Jews saw a portion of a day as a day, in reference to counting days in which a contract was to be fulfilled or a passage of time when referencing a past event.

You can keep claiming it as a fact all you want. You don't have solid Biblical proof, but you are going on heresay. On the other hand, I have submitted several things to you which counter that.

1. Jesus said there were 12 hours in a day.
2. the Jews seemed awfully keen on beginning and ending the sabbath on time to believe that 1-3 hours on Friday can be considered a whole day.
3. It doesn't even matter what the Jews consider a day, it matters what God and Jesus considered a day. God was the one who said it.

That Jesus at one point mentions something about there being "twelve hours in the day," in no way whatsoever means that in every other instance of the use of "day," whether he spoke them or not, that they are referring to twelve hours. To say otherwise is just poor biblical exegesis. Context is everything and being that it can be biblically proven that the Jews used "day" to mean everything from an indeterminate period of time to just a part of a day. There is absolutely no reason to not believe that the last few hours on the day Jesus was crucified count as one day.

In short, it does not matter one bit when he was crucified and when he rose again as there is no reason to believe that what Jesus said wasn't in some way fulfilled. The point is that we celebrate his death and resurrection. To argue about if we have the days right is to completely miss the significance of what was done.

 

[Sparkey]

To say otherwise is just poor biblical exegesis.

Technically, and pardon my correction please, but this isn't exegesis at all. Simply stated this is a classic example of eisegesis. As you know, 'exegesis' looks to get or extract meaning where eisegesis seeks to insert meaning.

There is absolutely no reason to not believe that the last few hours on the day Jesus was crucified count as one day.

There are reasons. Many have been well stated here but regarding "proofs" we must remain pure in our examination and teaching. Again, kindly pardon my pedantic correction, please.

To argue about if we have the days right is to completely miss the significance of what was done.

And in this we find unity once more. He is RISEN! It remains to be seen to what extent we allow this fact to become the focus of our hearts.

 

[Slider]

That Jesus at one point mentions something about there being "twelve hours in the day," in no way whatsoever means that in every other instance of the use of "day," whether he spoke them or not, that they are referring to twelve hours. To say otherwise is just poor biblical exegesis. Context is everything and being that it can be biblically proven that the Jews used "day" to mean everything from an indeterminate period of time to just a part of a day.

It does show that Jesus' mindset was that 12 hours = a day. To note that the Jews used "day" to mean anything is irrelevant. God was talking not the Jews. Show me where when Jesus or God said anything he didn't mean. Furthermore, if you had biblical proof that Jews used the word "day" to mean something other than a twelve hour day, you would have noted scripture. Actually, I know verses that are "used" to support this... They are inconclusive and don't matter anyway.... God wasn't talking!

In short, it does not matter one bit when he was crucified and when he rose again as there is no reason to believe that what Jesus said wasn't in some way fulfilled.

Sure.... If you ignore John 4:24.....

It may be that you haven't followed this thread in it's entirety, nor the other threads that are pretty much the same. It's tough to jump into a thread like this and understand all of what has been said, so I understand if you miss stuff....

 

[Free]

That Jesus at one point mentions something about there being "twelve hours in the day," in no way whatsoever means that in every other instance of the use of "day," whether he spoke them or not, that they are referring to twelve hours. To say otherwise is just poor biblical exegesis. Context is everything and being that it can be biblically proven that the Jews used "day" to mean everything from an indeterminate period of time to just a part of a day.

It does show that Jesus' mindset was that 12 hours = a day.

In only one instance. To take that to mean that Jesus always meant one day is equal to twelve hours, is not just wrong (we know that a day has 24 hours), it is an exegetical error. That simply is not how interpreting Scripture works.

To note that the Jews used "day" to mean anything is irrelevant. God was talking not the Jews. Show me where when Jesus or God said anything he didn't mean. Furthermore, if you had biblical proof that Jews used the word "day" to mean something other than a twelve hour day, you would have noted scripture. Actually, I know verses that are "used" to support this... They are inconclusive and don't matter anyway.... God wasn't talking!

You really have no argument here. Jesus was a Jew, speaking to other Jews. He always spoke in the language of his listeners, including all their meanings, idioms, etc. Really, why wouldn't he? Indeed he would have to if wanted to actually communicate anything meaningfully. There is proof that the Jews understood day to mean many different periods of time, I just don't have my resources with me.

In short, it does not matter one bit when he was crucified and when he rose again as there is no reason to believe that what Jesus said wasn't in some way fulfilled.

Sure.... If you ignore John 4:24.....

What does that have to do with what I said?

It may be that you haven't followed this thread in it's entirety, nor the other threads that are pretty much the same. It's tough to jump into a thread like this and understand all of what has been said, so I understand if you miss stuff....

Cut the personal attacks.

 

[Slider]

In only one instance. To take that to mean that Jesus always meant one day is equal to twelve hours, is not just wrong (we know that a day has 24 hours), it is an exegetical error. That simply is not how interpreting Scripture works.

This has already be covered extensively.

You really have no argument here. Jesus was a Jew, speaking to other Jews. He always spoke in the language of his listeners, including all their meanings, idioms, etc. Really, why wouldn't he? Indeed he would have to if wanted to actually communicate anything meaningfully. There is proof that the Jews understood day to mean many different periods of time, I just don't have my resources with me.

1. He was half Jewish, first off. His Father was God. Yes, God at times did speak in parables and used imagry in prophecy, but this is not one of them. He was pretty specific as he didn't just say 3 days, about 3 days or about 3 days and 3 nights. He said 3 days and 3 nights.
2. Using idioms would show signs of "variableness", which James points out there is none in God. (Jas 1:17)
3. Matthew 4:4 and Luke 4:4 say that we are to live by every word of God. So "3 days and 3 nights" means we don't ignore the 3 nights part, and...
4. EVEN IF a day can mean a fraction of a day, A Friday crucifixion and Sunday morning ressurection (whether it be before sunrise like the scripture says, or during sunrise) is not 3 days and 3 nights. It's 2 days and 2 nights. Even the "idiom" isn't correct.

Sure.... If you ignore John 4:24.....



What does that have to do with what I said?

It tells us how we are to worship.... It's not only important to worship, but how we worship MUST be done in spirit and in Truth. You don't think the word "must" is an idiom, do you?

Cut the personal attacks.

It wasn't a personal attack. It was me understanding that you may have not read the whole thread.

 

[Sparkey]

Slider? You're the only one who mentions John 4 as if the Apostle was saying that Slider's beliefs were required to worship God. That Scripture has nothing to do with reading the whole thread.

 

[Slider]

Slider? You're the only one who mentions John 4 as if the Apostle was saying that Slider's beliefs were required to worship God. That Scripture has nothing to do with reading the whole thread.

Have you read the verse? It says those that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth. It isn't about me or what I believe. It's about worshipping in truth. So those that say, "It doesn't matter what day he rose, only that he is risen" are wrong. If you are going to celebrate, observe or worship the Passion week, you cannot do it in error. God is not about the bottom line like most people think. It's just as important to Him as how you do it.

Furthermore, who said it had anything to do with "reading the whole thread"?

 

[Sparkey]

Have you read the verse?

Have you? Let's look at who Jesus spoke to, shall we? Was it a person thirsty or was she satisfied and a teacher and on the top of the heap? Did Jesus say, "You must know all things before you may worship?" Who was He speaking to? What was said? What was the "thread" and "topic" of the discussion???

The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

“I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

“Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

“Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

We may see that the conversation dealt with many aspects of the truth. Some claimed that they were the only ones who were rightly able to worship God. They based their claim on their ancestors, on being sons of Moses, and sons of Aaron and descendants of men. The Son of Man spoke and corrected this false impression. The woman pointed to Jerusalem (and perhaps the Temple there), the "City of Peace," wherein would be found "The Glory of God." But Jesus was speaking about WATER and that living water that would flow out from our bellies and of the water that He would send so that there would be no thirst. He pointed to the fact that God is Spirit. The 'truth' of the matter is that Jerusalem, the physical city of Jerusalem, is not the "city" whose builder and maker is God, not the ultimate promise, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are. Hence, we can see that we are allowed to worship in truth even though we are Gentiles. This is the truth that was revealed in the Acts of the Apostles, not the counting of days or the thought that one must read this whole thread in order to understand the writings found in the fourth chapter of John.

Understanding is to depart evil. Read the whole thread found in the forth chapter of John. Read it again please as I understand you have read it before. And also, as a Moderator has already said, “Cut the personal attacks.” The condescending tone of the comment, “It's tough to jump into a thread like this and understand all of what has been said, so I understand if you miss stuff....” is IMO (in my opinion) quite unmistakable. Do not ask me again to don the hat of Moderation as I would rather just discuss things and leave that kind of stuff out of it.

“... a time is coming and has now come ...” does not refer to the need to worship in Jerusalem, nor the right to worship based on the knowledge of one's ancestors. The Samaritans worshiped on the Mountain, not in the Temple. Jesus is the Temple and we too are called to be like Him. Romans 11:17 speaks of branches. "If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root," it speaks of how we as Gentiles are allowed to worship in Spirit and in Truth. Paul did not contradict himself while explaining such things and in another place has said, "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." (see Col 2:16).

 

[Sparkey]

But back to the subject. We were speaking about the "Truth" of what Jesus said when he mentioned the word "day". I'll have to check the Greek; maybe, Slider, you already have studied this and may wish to address the observation: if the thief was truly in paradise that day, he beat Jesus there by three days and three nights. cf. Rev 2:7 and 2 Cor 12:4 to see again the 'paradise' that the Lord of Heaven spoke of to the penitent one but not to the other.

There are many places where we may turn if we seek to justify the word being translated to mean an ongoing time. The book of Hebrews is just one of them:

[Heb 1:5 KJV] 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

[Heb 3:7, 13, 15 KJV] 7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, ... 13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. ... 15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

[Heb 4:7 KJV] 7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

[Heb 5:5 KJV] 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

[Heb 13:8 KJV] 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

There are many more places (many, many more) where we may turn if we seek to limit the word translated "today" to a strict meaning of 12 hours or 24 hours. Too many to list here.

But the next is the 'clincher' because His Disciples used that same word again and this time in context of the period of time that we are discussing while speaking to their Lord. Here we turn to the 24th chapter of the gospel of Luke:

[Luk 24:14-23 KJV] And they talked together of all these things which had happened. And it came to pass, that, while they communed [together] and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

And he said unto them, What manner of communications [are] these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

And he said unto them, What things?

And they said unto him,

Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre; And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.​

[Luk 24:27, 30-32, 34-35 KJV] And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. ...

And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed [it], and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? ...

Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. And they told what things [were done] in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

• ... Jesus himself drew near, and went with them...
• ... And they told what things [were done] in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread....

Lord, will we know you when you draw near? Will you ask, "What manner of conversations are these? Might we be known as we break bread together in our daily conversation and daily walk? Jesus, I dare not lift my eye and call you "Lord, lord," when I am a man of unclean lips, found in the company of a people of unclean lips. Cleanse and purge each who call upon your Name so that we may truly ask, "Lord, teach us your ways." Do this for the sake of your Name if not for the love that I know you have for each Member here. We ask together, Jesus. In your Name.

~Sparrow

P.S. I've amended my statement made in the previous post so that the word "unmistakable" is now qualified. It might be of interest to note that just as I expect, that should I call, other Moderators will come, so also do I know, that as you call, so will Jesus come. Blessings to you, who like me, may be seen to be highly opinionated, that we may all learn to strive toward the unity of the Body of Christ.

 

[tim-from-pa]

And after reading all thru these comments, all I have to say is that 3 days and 3 nights is NOT an idiom as the time in the tomb is one of the signs. But for those convinced otherwise, I do not see a stitch of evidence that it IS an idiom. If the number 3 is not significant (as it was with the story of Jonah as well), and he's in the tomb two days, or in the case of a Friday crucifixion basically one day (about 24 hours), then it ceases to be a sign because then any time span can be used. One has to understand about time and calendars before just assigning it to an idiom just "to make it fit" tradition. But that's the problem, neither clergy nor purveyors of a Friday crucifixion seem to understand how they kept time.

 

[Sparkey]

And after reading all thru these comments, all I have to say is that 3 days and 3 nights is NOT an idiom as the time in the tomb is one of the signs. But for those convinced otherwise, I do not see a stitch of evidence that it IS an idiom. If the number 3 is not significant (as it was with the story of Jonah as well), and he's in the tomb two days, or in the case of a Friday crucifixion basically one day (about 24 hours), then it ceases to be a sign because then any time span can be used. One has to understand about time and calendars before just assigning it to an idiom just "to make it fit" tradition. But that's the problem, neither clergy nor purveyors of a Friday crucifixion seem to understand how they kept time.

I certainly agree with that. That's exactly why I can not and will not insist on a specific interpretation. It only makes sense TO ME when I begin on Sunday (the 'first day of the week') and then count backward to establish a specific date for the interment. But what does not make sense is to give such priority, and tim-from-pa, I know you have said this same thing or similar before - but, to give such priority when the Scriptures resound with the sound of His Resurrection(!) and also mention the day Jesus, the Christ died.

Cordially and with peace in this,
Sparrow

 

[Comprehender]

Rick,
I take scriptures as symbolic - parables to be likened to us.
I also am careful as to what I take literally, since scriptures have been changed somewhat by questionable political/religious powers - over the centuries.

I have reason to believe life continues after we die - there are many testaments to that.
The details are not as important for us to know as the spirit and motivation we experience.