jesus is agianst law enforcement and military

[jasoncran]

shad, who told you that we are war crazy? when was the last country we have occupied before iraq and afghanistan, btw the latter was in a coalation. probably the news or some european that dislikes america and yet wants our protection should russia or iran acts up.

 

[follower of Christ]

shad, who told that we are war crazy? when was the last country we have occupied before iraq and afghanistan, btw the latter was in a coalation.

Not to mention WHO was it that went in and tried to defend Quwait and its citizens when the warlord Saddam Hussein invaded and committed the atrocities he did ?
Yes, yes, we know that there were additional 'motivations' but without that intervention Iraq would likely STILL be in Quwait and likely torturing its women and children at this point.

 

[shad]

let me ask you this, when the police are overwhelmed in a riot or national disaster, ie hurricanes, and large civil disobedience, ie la riots, watts riots. are those national guardsmen and active duty hyporcrites for performing large scale law enforcement. they usually dont shoot unless absolutely necessary and the media failed to tell us that were often shot at by those "poor" helpless citizens of new orleans, while getting and giving some aid, or guarding power plants and other utilities.

let's keep this from beginning personal, but to be honest i had to adress your comments in another thread, shad.

I dont have much problem with the police force because they are not disgracing Jesus. Police dont attack anyone randomly, even though I would not be police as my occupation. But the military is clearly against Jesus' commandments in many ways.

I would like to talk about how America killed many, many of their enemies randomly. Do you know how many innocent people were involved in their attacks of Japan? Everything is justified in wars. If you are Muslims, Muslims are saints. If you are American, Americans are the saints and their enemies are evil. The military is for protecting their own countries welfare. That's why Jesus commands us to "love your enemy" so we don't fingerpoint at other countries.

 

[shad]

shad, who told you that we are war crazy?

Does it matter who says it? If you believe you are being saints and not misrepresenting Jesus, go right ahead.

I am only expressing my experiences and convictions.

.

 

[follower of Christ]

Let me go on record here, just FYI for anyone who remotely cares, that Im NOT a pacifist by any stretch of the word. I dont believe for a second, based on the WHOLE word of God, that Jesus' intent with the Jews was that they werent allowed to defend their families or their citizens when He tried to teach them to not 'hate' and to not seek revenge at every offense.

Jesus did NOT do away with the precept 'eye for an eye' as pacifists seem to believe.
What Jesus DID do was to correct the Jewish perversion of the intent of that precept, that was meant for dispensing justice by judges and leadership, into some twisted instruction to exact personal revenge.

This pacifist nonsense is just one more reason why understanding the WHOLE word of God is absolutely crucial before one decides to play teacher.

That all said, Im sure it will be no surprise to anyone to find out that I am licensed by the state of Ohio to carry a concealed handgun for the defense of myself, my wife and grandson, and ANY other innocent person I might seeing being attacked, raped, etc....and put in a position to use the 357 Ruger SP101 I carry every waking moment for the defense of my own life, the lives of my wife or grandson, my family, my friends, or some innocent child or woman on the street being physically harmed by a criminal, I would use it to whatever extent necessary and lawful to stop the attacker from harming their victim.

And frankly, Im not overly concerned if the pacifist is appalled by my views.

And by the same token the leadership of any country has the responsibility of providing that SAME defense to its citizens and to attempt intervention, if possible, to protect the innocent citizens of any other country who are being slaughtered by their own evil leadership.

 

[follower of Christ]

shad, who told you that we are war crazy?

Does it matter who says it? If you believe you are being saints and not misrepresenting Jesus, go right ahead.

Ditto.

I like the implication that we arent 'saints' if we disagree with your absurdities, however...its really heartbreaking ;)

I am only expressing my experiences and convictions.

.

AGreed.

 

[jasoncran]

shad, who told that we are war crazy? when was the last country we have occupied before iraq and afghanistan, btw the latter was in a coalation.

Not to mention WHO was it that went in and tried to defend Quwait and its citizens when the warlord Saddam Hussein invaded and committed the atrocities he did ?
Yes, yes, we know that there were additional 'motivations' but without that intervention Iraq would likely STILL be in Quwait and likely torturing its women and children at this point.

i was talking about the iraq war not desert storm. but you do have a valid point.

yes the technology to avoid needless casuality wasnt there. and some did attack civilian out of spite, and that was both sides.

shad, ever heard of the watts riots, started by WHITE cops beating up black men for NO REASON. OR HOW ABOUT THE MURDER OF THE BLACK PANTHER GROUP, WHO WHILE A DANGEROUS GROUP, DIDNT FIRE FIRST AND WERE ATTACKED AND MURDERED, NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO SURRENDER AND BE ARRESTED.

THE POLICE DO ABUSE PEOPLE, AND IT IS RARE THESE DAYS, WALTER CRONKITE TALKED ABOUT THE POLICE LYNCHING BLACKS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS IN THE 60'S TEXAS.

YES ARE THERE SOLDIERS WHO ABUSE PEOPLE AND ARE PUNISHED, IE ABU GARAIB, AND OTHERS, BUT THOSE ARE RARE AS MOST SOLDIERS ARE PROFESSIONAL, MAYBE IF YOU SERVED AND THEN HAD THIS OPINION AND COULD LOOK AT IT FROM A INSIDERS POV, I WOULD HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THE OPINION, BUT OBVIOUSLY SINCE YOU GET IT FROM BIASED SOURCES.

I WOULD NEVER BE BORN OR AND MANY OF US WOULD BE IN OPPRESSION IF THE AXIS POWERS WON. I'M JEWISH AND SOME MY RELATIVES WERE KILLED IN THE HOLOCAUST.no, i'm not yelling making a point.

 

[follower of Christ]

I dont have much problem with the police force because they are not disgracing Jesus. Police dont attack anyone randomly, even though I would not be police as my occupation.

That individual soldiers commit wrong, chap, hasnt a thing to do with the whole military.
Secondly you are wrong.
My mother and sister can attest to 'random' attacks by LEOs...which is why they got such huge settlements from the lawsuit they filed.
Learn some facts, why dont ya

But the military is clearly against Jesus' commandments in many ways.

Wrong....sorry.

I would like to talk about how America killed many, many of their enemies randomly.

Again, what individuals do, even individual generals who instruct other individuals, has NOTHING to do with the military as a whole.

Do you know how many innocent people were involved in their attacks of Japan?

uh.....yeah.....lots....and we just keep right on dropping those A-Bombs, dont we ? ;)

The military is for protecting their own countries welfare.

Uh....ok

That's why Jesus commands us to "love your enemy" so we don't fingerpoint at other countries.

Hilarious misinterpretation.

 

[jasoncran]

so, it ok to call the police and feel good that officer is doing his job and kills a man if front of you in self-defense.yet if it was me in my uniform during a disaster(i'm a guardsmen) and i have the right things for the use of deadly force it would be evil?!

both are performing the same function here. one is an leo and the other is national guardsmen who is sent to restore law and order. i have no actual arresting authorites. i can only detain and then the suspect is handed over to the police.

i never said you weren't a saint ,you tolf me,personally, that i cant be saved cause i love my country and have served ,killed, and so on so forth, when in combat i never fired my assigned weapon. i helped the local villageers.

 

[shad]

so, it ok to call the police and feel good that officer is doing his job and kills a man if front of you in self-defense.yet if it was me in my uniform during a disaster(i'm a guardsmen) and i have the right things for the use of deadly force it would be evil?!

what kind of disaster are you talking about?

both are performing the same function here.

No we are not talking about the same function. The military is against other countries which most of us dont even know what is going on. The police target is very clear and very limited. They are seeking criminals and they make sure they sure are criminals, too. The target is mostly one, each time.

i never said you weren't a saint ,you tolf me,personally, that i cant be saved cause i love my country and have served ,killed, and so on so forth, when in combat i never fired my assigned weapon. i helped the local villageers.

I never said you said I am not saint. I am not talking about myself. Please dont put your words into mine.

 

[follower of Christ]

The military is against other countries which most of us dont even know what is going on. The police target is very clear and very limited.

Dude you REALLY need to get a clue.
There is a good number of law enforcement personnel each year who abuse their position and even entire law enforcement entities who do the same (the former New Rome PD, Ohio, for one)
Things ARENT as clear as your claims make them.

.

 

[jasoncran]

so, it ok to call the police and feel good that officer is doing his job and kills a man if front of you in self-defense.yet if it was me in my uniform during a disaster(i'm a guardsmen) and i have the right things for the use of deadly force it would be evil?!

what kind of disaster are you talking about?

both are performing the same function here.

No we are not talking about the same function. The military is against other countries which most of us dont even know what is going on. The police target is very clear and very limited. They are seeking criminals and they make sure they sure are criminals, too. The target is mostly one, each time.

[quote:22xe3a6r]i never said you weren't a saint ,you tolf me,personally, that i cant be saved cause i love my country and have served ,killed, and so on so forth, when in combat i never fired my assigned weapon. i helped the local villageers.

I never said you said I am not saint. I am not talking about myself. Please dont put your words into mine.[/quote:22xe3a6r]
the definition of disasters that need to call up of the guard and reserves and other, ie hurricanes,floods,earthquakes,tornadoes, riots as in large protests and strikes, and so on.

power and water are lost and theres no means of calling for help in these disasters thus the guard will patrol streets and guard the utilities and also direct traffic and give mre's and water.

In katrina these guys were often shot at by the gangs of new orleans and often(the guardmsmen) hid as the civilians are also in the way to return fire. these "poor" misunderstood people often shot at the people that tried to restore power and water.
it is in these types of situations were i would allowed to use deadly force , thus the scenario.
and in ft.meade md the base mp aslo have authority to patrol the outside city and arrest and enforce marlyland laws. as per agreement with said city.

 

[shad]

the definition of disasters that need to call up of the guard and reserves and other, ie hurricanes,floods,earthquakes,tornadoes, riots as in large protests and strikes, and so on.

The military's main mission is to fight against their enemy countries. If a country wants to prepare for those purposes, you dont have to have bombs and missles and etc... Do you know that the military is always training to kill their enemy?

.

 

[jasoncran]

the definition of disasters that need to call up of the guard and reserves and other, ie hurricanes,floods,earthquakes,tornadoes, riots as in large protests and strikes, and so on.

The military's main mission is to fight against their enemy countries. If a country wants to prepare for those purposes, you dont have to have bombs and missles and etc... Do you know that the military is always training to kill their enemy?

.

and cops always train to kill suspects if need be. i know what the military does i'm in it. i have 18 yrs in.
the cops often use the same training facilities as we do, any many cops are in the national guard or reserves of the air force, navy,marine corps or are coastie reservists as well.

 

[follower of Christ]

The military's main mission is to fight against their enemy countries.

Uh...and since those enemy countries would be threatening the security of that country and their citizenship it is hardly evil to be prepared to fight them off anymore than YOU would be evil for having a gun to protect your family

If a country wants to prepare for those purposes, you dont have to have bombs and missles and etc... Do you know that the military is always training to kill their enemy?

.

Just as a man doesnt need to have a gun for protecting his family if he;s a missionary.
Are you denying him that right of self defense ?
YOud have to be for your logic to be consistent.

 

[shad]

and cops always train to kill suspects if need be.

That's the last resort. The police don't have bombs and missiles.

i know what the military does i'm in it. i have 18 yrs in.
the cops often use the same training facilities as we do, any many cops are in the national guard or reserves of the air force, navy,marine corps or are coastie reservists as well.

You should know better that the military is not following Jesus' commandments in many ways. You can come up with all kinds of excuses if you are determined to justify the military, friend.

I was working for Marines and I know what they are doing, especially in war times.
funny ever heard of waco,texas? who did that. was it in cops? no, it was mp and infantry out of ft.hood tx. those gents were given ample oppurtunity to surrender and didnt thus it went south once they started the attack.

it amazes me of the ignorance of law enforcement and the military you have, based on your one expercience you comdemn us all. i could post the good that the military has done in tsunamis and the country of honduras with aid given to those countries.

you use the internet partially developed by the military, you may have used treatments that were discvored by the medics in combat ie blood transfusions,maliaria treatment, frostbite treatment, gps and so on.
love nasa and our space program give thanks to those who fought in ww2.

no one instutution is perfect and without faults, saved the trinity, even the local churches have faults. i will never work on the clock for a church again. volunteer ,yes, oh the politics.

 

[follower of Christ]

and cops always train to kill suspects if need be.

Thats right.
Im a 2nd amendment rights 'nut' and I talk to LEOs all the time and they ARE trained to shoot to kill if they have to fire their weapon. They arent trained to maim or shoot in the leg based on the many whom Ive talked to.

 

[follower of Christ]

That's the last resort.

Thats pretty funny.
So youre claim, I take it, is that our military as a FIRST option just starts shooting ?
Not sure what Action thriller you got that from

The police don't have bombs and missiles.

The police also arent dealing with major networks of terrorists and rogue Islamic nations building nuclear warheads and chemical and biological bombs.

This really is just falling apart at the seems, isnt it ? ;)

You should know better that the military is not following Jesus' commandments in many ways.

And YOU do in EVERY way ?

You can come up with all kinds of excuses if you are determined to justify the military, friend.

No, you are simply twisting the Lords words into something they arent.

 

[jasoncran]

freind of christ keep this form being attack on his beliefs, i know where you are coming from,but lets not degrade this into attacks one's faith.

 

[shad]

freind of christ keep this form being attack on his beliefs, i know where you are coming from,but lets not degrade this into attacks one's faith.

thank you Jason.

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