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Jesus Is God: Part 1

JLB said:
I have given you many scriptures. If you believe man is not a spirit created in the image of God then so be it.


There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Luke 16:19-28



The rich man also died and was buried —

  • And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
  • Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’


The rich man’s body was buried, yet he was in hell conversing with Abraham and could see Lazarus.





JLB
Click to expand...
If that's that case why does he have body parts? It seems pretty clear that he was in the body in Hades. He had eyes, he could speak so he must have had a mouth. Abraham could speak, he must have had a mouth. He had a bosom because it's mentioned. Lazarus had a finger. They have bodies in the parable. That's because Hades is the grave. The parable isn't even about the dead. It's a judgment against Israel. That's why He's telling it to the Pharisees.
 
stovebolts said:
John 10:30 NIV
Jesus said,
“I and the Father are one”.

And since the Holy Spirit is the presence of them both, and both are one, then we now have a trinity.
Click to expand...
How do you get three from just two? 1 +1 = 2 not 3 as you suggest.
God the Father and God the Son thats 2 not 3.
 
The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
(Zech. 12:1 KJV)

​

​

Genitive Case​

The genitive case denotes possession. A noun, pronoun, or adjective in the genitive case is often used as a possessive form or the object of a preposition. The genitive case is used much like in the English language with words such as: “my,” “your,” “his,” “hers.” A genitive often follows after the noun it qualifies. A genitive occurs with verbs, adjectives, adverbs, and prepositions.

The bolded part is mine. The genitive case denotes possession, not person.
 
Butch5 said:
If that's that case why does he have body parts? It seems pretty clear that he was in the body in Hades. He had eyes, he could speak so he must have had a mouth. Abraham could speak, he must have had a mouth. He had a bosom because it's mentioned. Lazarus had a finger. They have bodies in the parable. That's because Hades is the grave. The parable isn't even about the dead. It's a judgment against Israel. That's why He's telling it to the Pharisees.
Click to expand...
I will try. It might have been done already.
Rednecks struggle.

Your post 384 you said you had it all worked out. Trouble is you decided what folks are saying makes no sense to you. How people can be one.

Hebrews 7:10 kjv
10. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him

Mono Genesis:
Mono one
Monoplane an aircraft with one wing.

Genesis beginning
Genesis the book of beginning

There is one beginning for Jesus. When God thought of a Son.
It was a done deal. Jesus existed then and there. As words, but really the Word of God.


The prophets carried foreard the idea. The prophets did not cause the Son to be born.

The Holy Spirit just carried out the one beginning.

We have to know what the scriptures mean. Not what itas t makes sense us.

In our existence Genetics tells of our physical development (a book of spiral connections written on inside and out.
The Bible tells us of God and his plan. Some in code and some straight out.

Well rednecks are not that smart. That is about all I know about all this.

eddif
 
eddif said:
I will try. It might have been done already.
Rednecks struggle.

Your post 384 you said you had it all worked out. Trouble is you decided what folks are saying makes no sense to you. How people can be one.

Hebrews 7:10 kjv
10. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him

Mono Genesis:
Mono one
Monoplane an aircraft with one wing.

Genesis beginning
Genesis the book of beginning

There is one beginning for Jesus. When God thought of a Son.
It was a done deal. Jesus existed then and there. As words, but really the Word of God.


The prophets carried foreard the idea. The prophets did not cause the Son to be born.

The Holy Spirit just carried out the one beginning.

We have to know what the scriptures mean. Not what itas t makes sense us.

In our existence Genetics tells of our physical development (a book of spiral connections written on inside and out.
The Bible tells us of God and his plan. Some in code and some straight out.

Well rednecks are not that smart. That is about all I know about all this.

eddif
Click to expand...
When I said I had it worked out I was referring to how there can be one God while the Scriptures do refer to Jesus as God also. The word God is a title. The Father is Deity and so is Jesus. The problem is when people see God in the Bible they assume this idea of 3 in 1 because of the statement there is one God. They assume since the Father is called God and the Son is called God and there is one God, they must be the same being. The problem is that Scripture refutes this idea over and over. Since Scripture refutes it there must be another meaning. We get a hint from Paul in his letter to Timothy.

1 Timothy 6:13–16 (KJV 1900): I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Here Paul says that there is only one potentate or ruler. A ruler speaks to authority. He says there is one King of kings. Again this speaks to authority. One Lord of Lords. Again, authority. He says this one is the one no man can see. That is the Father. What He's saying here is that there is only one ultimate authortiy to the Christian and that is the Father. He's saying that the Father is above all. He's equal to none and subject to none. He is the ultimate God.

He's not denying the Deity of Jesus, He's affirming the absolute superiority of the Father.

That's one thing that troubles me about the Trimity doctrine. In essence it demotes the Father. Paul said the Father is the ultimate God. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. But, the Trinity doctrine says nope, He's got two other equals. That's a scary place to be. Another concern is that people are worshipping Jesus instead of the Father.
 
Butch5
Here are a few things to think about.
1. God is Elohim in Hebrew.
Elohim is a title and is plural.
2. The Hebrew alphabet also has numeric values. All the letters hold a numeric value with the exception of one. That value holds the idea as complete. Numerically, that could be 1 to whatever else it takes to make something complete. The point is, one is not limited to the numeric value of 1.
 
stovebolts said:
Butch5
Here are a few things to think about.
1. God is Elohim in Hebrew.
Elohim is a title and is plural.
2. The Hebrew alphabet also has numeric values. All the letters hold a numeric value with the exception of one. That value holds the idea as complete. Numerically, that could be 1 to whatever else it takes to make something complete. The point is, one is not limited to the numeric value of 1.
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Hi Stovebolts,

Elohim is plural. Are you familiar with the Majestic Plural? It's a literary device where a plural is used of an individual to Express greatness. Elohim is plural but used of single entities. We have an example in Samuel.

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

King James Version 1 Sa 28:11–14.

Notice the woman saw elohym, gods, plual. Saul replies with the singular, what form was he.
 
Dykstra said:
The trinity is a false doctrine of which there is no doubt. There is God the Father and God the Son and the Holy Spirit is the power and presence of them both. The HS is not a third god as was initiated by the catholics its just another false doctrine of man.
Click to expand...
And Jesus is the Father in the image of man?
 
JLB said:
I have given you many scriptures. If you believe man is not a spirit created in the image of God then so be it.


There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Luke 16:19-28



The rich man also died and was buried —

  • And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
  • Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’


The rich man’s body was buried, yet he was in hell conversing with Abraham and could see Lazarus.





JLB
Click to expand...
God created man in his image, and indeed we are body, soul and spirit while being one person.
 
stovebolts said:
John 10:30 NIV
Jesus said,
“I and the Father are one”.

And since the Holy Spirit is the presence of them both, and both are one, then we now have a trinity.
Click to expand...
The Triune God (body, soul, and spirit) with us in Christ Jesus. Jesus said it was the Father in him who healed the sick.
 
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Well we have them all now
Mono partite - one part God
Bi partite - two part God
Tri partite - three part God

Based on? How many parts we are as man?

Jesus said:
Matthew 28:19 kjv
19, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus said teach them all things:
The Father
The Son
The Holy Spirit

Repent the Father - you sinned against
Accept Jesus - for eternal life
Accept the Holy Spirit - for power to be a witness

Yes brother, but…..
Clarify:
Name
Title
Essence

Well as a redneck I have trouble doing that.
Want me to try? LOL

eddif
 
Butch5 said:
Hi Stovebolts,

Elohim is plural. Are you familiar with the Majestic Plural? It's a literary device where a plural is used of an individual to Express greatness. Elohim is plural but used of single entities. We have an example in Samuel.

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

King James Version 1 Sa 28:11–14.

Notice the woman saw elohym, gods, plual. Saul replies with the singular, what form was he.
Click to expand...
H430 el-o-heem' Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - great, mighty etc. (Strong)

Here are some examples of elohim in scripture. Whether it is singular or plural can be seen from the letter 's' in the text. Although Christians worship a triune God, that is not to say we worship three gods, but rather One omnipresent God in heaven who we call Father, on earth who we call Son, and in our hearts the Holy Spirit, this being the nature of the One omnipresent God.

I have said, Ye are gods (elohim); and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalms 82:6 KJV)

Thy throne, O God (elohim), is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. (Psalms 45:6 KJV)

And it came to pass, when God (elohim) destroyed the cities of the plain, that God (elohim) remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt. (Genesis 19:29 KJV)

Nevertheless Josiah would not turn his face from him, but disguised himself, that he might fight with him, and hearkened not unto the words of Necho from the mouth of God (elohim), and came to fight in the valley of Megiddo. (2 Chronicles 35:22 KJV)

Saul made the mistake of forsaking the one true God.
1 Samuel 28:13-15 KJV
(13) And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods (Elohim) ascending out of the earth.
(14) And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
(15) And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God (Elohim) is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

Regarding verse 15
Saul knew he was asking counsel of the devil, for if God would not answer him by the living prophets, what satisfaction could he have gotten from the dead? (Paul Kretzmann) Saul's many gods are not our heavenly God and Saviour. We do not worship three elohim.
 
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If I look at people:
Flesh- A man in a coma with no cognitive activity just a tiny bit of brain stem activity.

Soul- A paralyzed man with full mental capibilities.

Spirit filled- insert 10 descriptions from Pentecost.

Be of one mind.

eddif
 
Here's something to think about. The translation spirit is a figure of speech used for the words ruach, neshamah, pneuma, and noe. All four of these words mean wind or breath. They are translated spirit when used as a figure of speech. So, when someone says man is a spirit, the are essentially saying man is a wind or a breath. So, if one makes that claim the onus is on them to explain how man is a wind or breath since it's figurative language. So, guys, how is man a wind or breath? In what sense?

These words do not have as their meaning a disembodied living being. That is an English definition of spirit. It has no bearing on those Greek and Hebrew words. They are used figuratively of angels and demons because angels and demons have qualities that are similar to the wind. Jesus explains this in John 3. He said the wind blows where it wills and you don't know where it comes from or where it goes. It's the same with Angels and demons. They're all around, they come and go and we are none the wiser. Just like the wind. We can't see the wind but we can see the effect of the wind. Likewise, we can't see angels ordemons but we can see their effects. Since they have qualities like the wind they are figuratively called winds
 
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