Jesus is Presently King of the World

[Panin]

As Christ is God and God is in control of the whole shooting match, then obviously God is ruling over everything. If you want to put that into the term that Jesus is presently the King of the World, be my guest.

Having said that we are reminded that we are in the world but not of the world, so I am assured that Christ's Kingship is not an earthly/worldy realm kingship. Currentlly satan has that throne. and will rule over it in person aswell at somepoint in the future. ANd mark my words, during that time for a while, satan will appear as an angel of light, Christ like and will deceive the whole world.

Currently the Holy Spirit is in the world. But He does not rule the world system.

 

[shad]

Well said Panin, amen.

.

 

[glorydaz]

As Christ is God and God is in control of the whole shooting match, then obviously God is ruling over everything. If you want to put that into the term that Jesus is presently the King of the World, be my guest.

Having said that we are reminded that we are in the world but not of the world, so I am assured that Christ's Kingship is not an earthly/worldy realm kingship. Currentlly satan has that throne. and will rule over it in person aswell at somepoint in the future. ANd mark my words, during that time for a while, satan will appear as an angel of light, Christ like and will deceive the whole world.

Currently the Holy Spirit is in the world. But He does not rule the world system.

It isn't that I put it into the term that Jesus is King, it's what the Word tells us in no uncertain terms.
God has never intended to have a house built with hands...His plan was for a house made with living stones. That would be us...the body of Christ. While David rested in his grave, God would raise up a King to sit on Davids throne. Satan has no throne...never has, never will.

4And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 5Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar? 8Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Here His throne is established.

Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Jesus has a kingdom, a throne and all power on heaven and earth, yet you say he doesn't rule?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Yet the Word says He not only does reign (rule), but He MUST ....

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

 

[Panin]

As Christ is God and God is in control of the whole shooting match, then obviously God is ruling over everything. If you want to put that into the term that Jesus is presently the King of the World, be my guest.

Having said that we are reminded that we are in the world but not of the world, so I am assured that Christ's Kingship is not an earthly/worldy realm kingship. Currentlly satan has that throne. and will rule over it in person aswell at somepoint in the future. ANd mark my words, during that time for a while, satan will appear as an angel of light, Christ like and will deceive the whole world.

Currently the Holy Spirit is in the world. But He does not rule the world system.

It isn't that I put it into the term that Jesus is King, it's what the Word tells us in no uncertain terms.
God has never intended to have a house built with hands...His plan was for a house made with living stones. That would be us...the body of Christ. While David rested in his grave, God would raise up a King to sit on Davids throne. Satan has no throne...never has, never will.

4And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying, 5Go and tell my servant David, Thus saith the LORD, Shalt thou build me an house for me to dwell in? 6Whereas I have not dwelt in any house since the time that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle. 7In all the places wherein I have walked with all the children of Israel spake I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed my people Israel, saying, Why build ye not me an house of cedar? 8Now therefore so shalt thou say unto my servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, to be ruler over my people, over Israel: 9And I was with thee whithersoever thou wentest, and have cut off all thine enemies out of thy sight, and have made thee a great name, like unto the name of the great men that are in the earth. 10Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime, 11And as since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine enemies. Also the LORD telleth thee that he will make thee an house. 12And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

Here His throne is established.
[quote="Matthew 21:5":1bx34xe2]Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Jesus has a kingdom, a throne and all power on heaven and earth, yet you say he doesn't rule?

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Yet the Word says He not only does reign (rule), but He MUST ....

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

[/quote:1bx34xe2]

I was referring to the OP, not your good self.

 

[glorydaz]

I was referring to the OP, not your good self.

What does that mean?

 

[Panin]

I was referring to the OP, not your good self.

What does that mean?

You said the following in repsonse to my post, my post was directed at the Original poster, not to you.

It isn't that I put it into the term that Jesus is King,

No biggie

 

[glorydaz]

I was referring to the OP, not your good self.

What does that mean?

You said the following in repsonse to my post, my post was directed at the Original poster, not to you.

It isn't that I put it into the term that Jesus is King,

No biggie

Ah, I get it. Sorry. It's this darn mode of communication again. :biglaugh

 

[Panin]

quote]

Ah, I get it. Sorry. It's this darn mode of communication again. :biglaugh[/quote]

We'll get there bruv. Don't mind me, Im a bit loopy.

Im not really I just really really really wanted to use that icon.

 

[glorydaz]

Ah, I get it. Sorry. It's this darn mode of communication again. :biglaugh

We'll get there bruv. Don't mind me, Im a bit loopy.

Im not really I just really really really wanted to use that icon.

LOL It's a good one. I think I coulda used it on my last post instead of the halo. :yes

 

[MarkT]

No, there is no such connotation - I could say "Fred Smith, the unemployed bum, is a member of the Smiths of New York". Or what about the phrase "George of the jungle" Are we saying that George has the attributes and properties of a jungle? No - we are saying that George comes from the jungle.

You're adding Fred Smith and no one would say Fred of the Smiths. What we can take from 'the Smiths of New York' is that they are well known, important, probably rich, probably high society - things associated with New York.

George of the jungle is like saying George rules the jungle.

Anyway, this is a red herring. As the greek suggest, the intended meaning of Jesus' statement is "My kingdom is not from this world" - as the NET and NRSV translations have it.

Any way you look at it, 'of' or 'from', (though Pilate didn't ask where he was from), Jesus dissociated himself from this world and the Jews. Now you added 'clearly for this world' and then you went one step further and made the world his kingdom. Am I reading you correctly?

If you wouldn't mind using the RSV. I can't use the NET. I don't trust anything published after 1952 because of the rebellion (against the authority of men) of the 60s.

 

[Panin]

If you wouldn't mind using the RSV. I can't use the NET. I don't trust anything published after 1952 because of the rebellion (against the authority of men) of the 60s.

[/quote]

Hi Mark, you may enjoy Ivan Panins New Testament in English. It was completed well ebfore 1954. I think it is the most accurate New Testament in the world today.

PS The Rv is error some. Sorry.

 

[glorydaz]

David foresaw our Lord's coming, and His ascension the Throne of David.
Peter, while speaking at Pentecost, explains in Acts 2.

(The coming in of the "Kingdom with power", of course, speaks of the Holy Spirit filling the body of believers.)

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

This portion makes it clear that, at the resurrection, Christ would be raised to SIT on the throne of David. To sit means to rule and reign. The sitting King...that means He has all power. Just like Jesus said He had.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

He's to sit on the throne, ruling over His kingdom until His foes are His footstool.
That means He's ruling now - with His body (church) exercising His will, and with all His authority and power here on earth.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Lord (King) and Christ (Priest)...seated on David's throne and ruling in the kingdom of men.
Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in the world. Satan doesn't rule...he was defeated at the cross. He influences the ungodly, but it's our King that rules, not him. The church is doing the work of our King, spreading the news of the eternal kingdom, influencing the affairs of men by prayer and good works. An eternal kingdom established here on earth, and then, face to face with our Lord at His coming and on throughout eternity.

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ

 

[Drew]

One of the arguments often advanced against the assertion that Jesus presently rules over this world is that, if He really does rule, sin and death and all sorts of other problems would be gone.

Well, that critique has superficial appeal, but it is decidedly not Biblical. It has already been shown from 1 Corinthians 15 ("....He shall rule until He has placed all enemies under His feet") that some problems can still be present even if Jesus is ruling this world.

And the exact same point is made in Hebrews 2:

YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET "
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

The writer could not be more clear:

1. Jesus has been enthroned already over the earth;

2. Not all things are yet subject to Him, despite this.

Despite the appeal of "how can Christ be king now, if there is still sin and death?" objection, it is simply not Biblical.

Jesus is the King over all the earth. Right now - even with all the problems our world has.

 

[researcher]

Jesus is presently ruling, and the wedding of the Lamb already happened.

Don't see what the big deal is, lol

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus is presently ruling, and the wedding of the Lamb already happened.

Don't see what the big deal is, lol

You're right...the only thing left is the wedding supper and the consumation of the marriage.
We'll have to wait until the Lord returns for that.

 

[glorydaz]

YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET "
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

The writer could not be more clear:

1. Jesus has been enthroned already over the earth;

2. Not all things are yet subject to Him, despite this.Despite the appeal of "how can Christ be king now, if there is still sin and death?" objection, it is simply not Biblical.

Jesus is the King over all the earth. Right now - even with all the problems our world has.

But all things are subject to him. "He left nothing that is not subject to him."
We just don't see it. Heck, most people can't even see Him sitting on the throne.

It puts me in mind of our being dead to sin. Do most Christians act like they believe that?
No...we walk by what we see and experience rather than what God says is done already.
We're supposed to walk by faith...not by sight.

 

[MarkT]

One of the arguments often advanced against the assertion that Jesus presently rules over this world is that, if He really does rule, sin and death and all sorts of other problems would be gone.

Well, that critique has superficial appeal, but it is decidedly not Biblical. It has already been shown from 1 Corinthians 15 ("....He shall rule until He has placed all enemies under His feet") that some problems can still be present even if Jesus is ruling this world.

And the exact same point is made in Hebrews 2:

YOU HAVE CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR,
AND HAVE APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
YOU HAVE PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET "
For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him.

The writer could not be more clear:

1. Jesus has been enthroned already over the earth;

2. Not all things are yet subject to Him, despite this.

Despite the appeal of "how can Christ be king now, if there is still sin and death?" objection, it is simply not Biblical.

Jesus is the King over all the earth. Right now - even with all the problems our world has.

You keep taking lines out of context Drew. I already addressed Cor. 15. Cor. 15 says 'at his coming', after destroying every rule and every authority and power, he will deliver the kingdom to God the Father Cor. 15:23-24. And then Paul explains why Christ must reign - 'For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet' So this will happen at his coming. This is described as the day of the Lord in the prophets, the day of wrath, and the thousand year reign in Revelation.

And again you take Hebrews 2 out of context -

5 For it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking. 6 It has been testified somewhere, "What is man that thou art mindful of him, or the son of man, that thou carest for him? 7 Thou didst make him for a little while lower than the angels, thou hast crowned him with glory and honor, 8 putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. As it is, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him

Paul is speaking of the world to come. He says so in the first line. Is there a world to come? Obviously there is since Paul is speaking of it. Is Paul speaking of the kingdom? Yes. That's what Christ will deliver to God the Father.

And the last line is, 'As it is, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him'. Paul is saying the world, 'as it is', is not yet in subjection to him. Obviously not. The world, as it is, is ruled by the devil.

Everything will be subject to Christ when he returns. He will reign for a thousand years. I think at this time he will be separating the goats from the sheep.

Now Revelation says at the end of the thousand year reign the devil will be loosed for a time, and he will deceive the nations and they will surround the city of Jerusalem; but fire from heaven will consume them, and the devil will be thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet were.

God will put everything under his feet. Every rule and every authority and power will be destroyed. The devil will be cast out. Death will be destroyed. Saying it has already happened is ridiculous. The devil is unquestionably the ruler of this world. His influence is everywhere, in every institution and law and government; and even in some churches. Has death been destroyed? No.

And then there will be the second resurrection when the book of life is opened.

It's true God has made him king. Paul quoted the prophet when he said, 'For God has put all things in subjection under his feet'. That's the prophecy. When Jesus Christ returns the prophecy will be fulfilled.

Seems to me you're one of the ones saying, 'the Christ is here or the Christ is there' before he has returned.

 

[MarkT]

Drew

I don't think you're reading the prophets correctly. You know the words came to the prophets before Jesus was born (hundreds or thousands of years before he was born). You can't use the present tense of the words the way they came to the prophets to think they happened then, even before Jesus was born. Some words speak of his life and death and some speak of his coming. In particular, "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." 1 Cor. 15:27 The words describe or fore-shadow the coming of the Lord. They are a glimpse or a vision of the future.

 

[glorydaz]

Drew

I don't think you're reading the prophets correctly. You know the words came to the prophets before Jesus was born (hundreds or thousands of years before he was born). You can't use the present tense of the words the way they came to the prophets to think they happened then, even before Jesus was born. Some words speak of his life and death and some speak of his coming. In particular, "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." 1 Cor. 15:27 The words describe or fore-shadow the coming of the Lord. They are a glimpse or a vision of the future.

No...maybe this will make it clearer.

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Jesus rose to the throne as King. All things were put under His feet when He was raised from the dead...not at some future coming. When a king has a kingdom, are not all under his subjection?
Yes, of course they are. Does the king go out into his kingdom and make sure everyone is doing his bidding. No, he has his subordinates take care of that. The church is laboring at that task as we speak.

You can believe if the King spoke the word, mountains would fall and kingdoms would crumble. Our Lord has all power...He just isn't exercising that power as some people would like. He has it, nonetheless.

 

[MarkT]

Drew

I don't think you're reading the prophets correctly. You know the words came to the prophets before Jesus was born (hundreds or thousands of years before he was born). You can't use the present tense of the words the way they came to the prophets to think they happened then, even before Jesus was born. Some words speak of his life and death and some speak of his coming. In particular, "For God has put all things in subjection under his feet." 1 Cor. 15:27 The words describe or fore-shadow the coming of the Lord. They are a glimpse or a vision of the future.

No...maybe this will make it clearer.

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Jesus rose to the throne as King. All things were put under His feet when He was raised from the dead...not at some future coming. When a king has a kingdom, are not all under his subjection?
Yes, of course they are. Does the king go out into his kingdom and make sure everyone is doing his bidding. No, he has his subordinates take care of that. The church is laboring at that task as we speak.

You can believe if the King spoke the word, mountains would fall and kingdoms would crumble. Our Lord has all power...He just isn't exercising that power as some people would like. He has it, nonetheless.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the King of kings; all things are under his feet. No one is arguing that. The idea is that he is above all rule and power and authority. But that's not saying the devil is not the ruler of this world. So even though he is the King of kings, not everyone wants him to reign over them. There's the parable of the householder who planted a vineyard and let it out to tenants. The tenants killed the householder's servants and then they killed his son/heir. When the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants? In this parable, the householder is God, the tenants are the Israelites, the servants are the prophets of old, the heir is Jesus, and the owner is the Lord Jesus Christ. Suffice it to say the owner has not come yet.

Paul says, 'When all things are subjected to him' 1 Cor. 15:28. So when will all things be subjected to him? 'at his coming' 1 Cor. 15:23. At his coming all things will be subjected to him.

Hebrews 10:12-13, 'he sat down at the right hand of God, then to wait until his enemies should be made a stool for his feet.'

I don't know what you mean by 'he isn't exercising that power as some people would like'. Christ is waiting until God makes his enemies a stool for his feet. God appointed a time for it. It's not yet but pretty soon I think.