Jesus is Presently King of the World

[Son of Israel]

Yes
Of course He is our King and rules and reigns over all things in Heaven and earth and things present and things future... Forever and ever, ruling and reigning. Not to be pompous, but "duh" lol.
Those who don't think so would be these folk...

(Luk 19:27) But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

 

[glorydaz]

Yes
Of course He is our King and rules and reigns over all things in Heaven and earth and things present and things future... Forever and ever, ruling and reigning. Not to be pompous, but "duh" lol.
Those who don't think so would be these folk...

(Luk 19:27) But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Great verse, brother. That led me to this one.
And all power has been given Him.

And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest. And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

[Strangelove]

Well...I didnt read through the whole thread but I have to commend Drew on the few posts of his I read on this topic.

It couldn't be clearer that Christ is King now and not coming to be king at the second advent.

Doc.

 

[Bazz1040]

Post 1 of 2:

Many Christians, perhaps most, seem to think that Jesus is not yet king of this world. One argument advanced to this effect is that if Jesus were truly king right now, there would be no evil in the world. This argument has a simplistic appeal. However, as shown elsewhere, there are many texts that strongly suggest that Jesus is indeed presently enthroned over this present world. So does the person who denies Jesus present reign based on the existence of evil have a point, requiring that we re-think texts that seem to suggest he is already enthroned?

No, such a person does not have a point. This particular objection to the “kingdom nowâ€Â position is based on an historically inaccurate concept of kingship. If we are going to understand what it actually means to say that Jesus presently reigns, we need to appeal to some model of the nature of kingship. When someone says “Jesus cannot be reigning since there is still evil and deathâ€Â, that person implicitly appeals to a model where the king instantaneously solves all the problems in his realm. And that, as we shall see, is not likely the kingship model which the first century authors of the New Testament likely had in mind.

No doubt, the proponent of the view that present kingship is incompatible with the presence of evil will assert that since Jesus is specifically divine, He will be able to instantly and completely solve all the problems of the world when He is enthroned. In other words, while we can accept that a human king is enthroned even while there is chaos in his realm, at least for a time, this could not be case for a divine king (such as Jesus).

Such an argument is easily undermined by the fact that God’s grand plan of redemption, beginning with the call of Abraham and climaxing centuries of years later on the cross was decidedly not an “instantâ€Â solution. Was God not ruling over that creation during that time? Well of course he was. So one is being more than a little Biblically naïve if one insists that any divine rule must accomplish all kingdom objectives instantly.

In any event, the historical model of kingship that was ingrained in the mind of the 1st century Jew was one where kingship was decidedly a project that was implemented over time, and therefore not brought to full consummation the instant the king was enthroned.

Post 2 follows.

The question is not what you propose (a carefully constructed question) that others are saying the question is on whose authority or throne is Jesus ruling on? Jesus plainly said that He was sitting on His Father's throne. The fact that Jesus said that He was ruling on behalf of His Father, indirectly tells us that He is not currently on His own throne, which the Bible tells us will be on the Earth......this (the part underline) has always been my point, and not that Jesus was not now a King ruling over all things.

 

[Drew]

The question is not what you propose (a carefully constructed question) that others are saying the question is on whose authority or throne is Jesus ruling on? Jesus plainly said that He was sitting on His Father's throne. The fact that Jesus said that He was ruling on behalf of His Father, indirectly tells us that He is not currently on His own throne, which the Bible tells us will be on the Earth......this (the part underline) has always been my point, and not that Jesus was not now a King ruling over all things.

How is the fact that Jesus is "sitting on His Father's throne" mean that He is not presently king of this present world?

I suggest the Biblical evidence is actually overwhelming on this matter - Jesus is presently a king over all things.

What does Jesus say at the end of Matthew? That all authority on earth will be given to Him, at some point in the future?

No. All authority on earth has already been given to Him. This text, all by itself, shows that Jesus indeed presently reigns as king. How can Jesus presently have all authority, yes, on earth, if He is not presently a king over that self-same earth?

 

[Bazz1040]

How is the fact that Jesus is "sitting on His Father's throne" mean that He is not presently king of this present world?


I suggest the Biblical evidence is actually overwhelming on this matter - Jesus is presently a king over all things.


What does Jesus say at the end of Matthew? That all authority on earth will be given to Him, at some point in the future?

No. All authority on earth has already been given to Him. This text, all by itself, shows that Jesus indeed presently reigns as king. How can Jesus presently have all authority, yes, on earth, if He is not presently a king over that self-same earth?

I did not say that Jesus is not a King.....you need to re-read what I said. Jesus is King not only over the Earth but all things, but He is sitting on His Father's throne. Jesus’ throne will be on the Earth.

 

[Free]

The question is not what you propose (a carefully constructed question) that others are saying the question is on whose authority or throne is Jesus ruling on? Jesus plainly said that He was sitting on His Father's throne. The fact that Jesus said that He was ruling on behalf of His Father, indirectly tells us that He is not currently on His own throne, which the Bible tells us will be on the Earth......this (the part underline) has always been my point, and not that Jesus was not now a King ruling over all things.

I don't see how this relates to what you quoted of Drew's post. Perhaps that is where some current confusion is. What throne Jesus is currently on doesn't seem to me to be relevant to the thrust of Drew's posts.

 

[Bazz1040]

I don't see how this relates to what you quoted of Drew's post. Perhaps that is where some current confusion is. What throne Jesus is currently on doesn't seem to me to be relevant to the thrust of Drew's posts.

I thought it was just as important for Christians to understand that Jesus is not just a king in Heaven ruling over all things, but also that He is coming back to the Earth to stay and rule as King of kings, and not takes us to Heaven when He returns as many think.

 

[Drew]

You keep taking lines out of context Drew. I already addressed Cor. 15. Cor. 15 says 'at his coming', after destroying every rule and every authority and power, he will deliver the kingdom to God the Father Cor. 15:23-24. And then Paul explains why Christ must reign - 'For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet' So this will happen at his coming.

There is nothing in 1 Corinthians 15 that denies that Jesus is presently King. In fact, the statement that "He must reign until all enemies are defeated" is entirely consistent with the proposition that Jesus presently reigns. The fact that there is death and evil in the world only means that these are things that have not yet been defeated. But there is no case in 1 Corinthians 15 that Jesus is not presently in a position of kingship over all the earth.

Which is good, since so many other texts - not least the "all authority on earth has been given to me" text - show that He reigns from the moment of the resurrection.

Yes, Jesus is not here now. Yes, at his coming He will deliver the Kingdom to his Father. But none of this undermines the proposition that Jesus is presently reigning.

 

[Drew]

I did not say that Jesus is not a King.....you need to re-read what I said. Jesus is King not only over the Earth but all things, but He is sitting on His Father's throne. Jesus’ throne will be on the Earth.

OK, fair enough. If you agree that Jesus is presently in a position of "kingship" over the present material world, then we are in violent agreement about this matter.

 

[Bazz1040]

OK, fair enough. If you agree that Jesus is presently in a position of "kingship" over the present material world, then we are in violent agreement about this matter.

Violent agreement? That's the first time I have ever heard or read in this case of that term. I looked, though I don’t like the word violent.