Jesus taught eternal security to a Samaritan woman

[JLB]

WRT John 4, is it your interpretation that Jesus is saying the drinker becomes the well?

John 4:14 (LEB) But whoever drinks of this water which I will give to him will never be thirsty for eternity, but the water which I will give to him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.” ​

The water (a gift) becomes a well in him (the drinker). Nowhere does it say or imply the drinker ever becomes the well through a process.

Please refer to the actual things I have said, in my post, not what you "make up".


Please notice this phrase: the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

Notice that it is not instantaneous, but shown to be a process of becoming.

Become is a word associated with us becoming sons of God, as well.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12 KJV


It is during the process that the danger of turning away, falling away, or departing from the Living God, is relevant.

Which is why we are taught to continue in the faith, to the end, for it is at the end we receive eternal life.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:20-23

• you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

The end result of a life of righteousness and holiness is eternal life.


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

• Eternal life is granted at the end, to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

• God renders to each one according to his deeds:

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

JLB

 

[JLB]

As usual, it depends on the translation you are using:

14 But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
KJV:
14 But G1161 whosoever G3739 G302 drinketh G4095 of G1537 the water G5204 that G3739 I G1473 shall give G1325 himG846 shall G1372 never G1519 G165 G3364 thirst G1372; but G235 the water G5204 that G3739 I shall give G1325 himG846 shall be G1096 in G1722 him G846 a well G4077 of water G5204 springing up G242 into G1519 everlasting G166 lifeG2222.

As can be seen the words 'wil become' don't appear here.....In fact the words used here imply present and future tense......

Please read the phrase... shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Shall be = will become

We have eternal life through faith, in Jesus Christ, which means we have the hope of eternal life.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, Titus 1:1-2

• in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.

and again

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7

• we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

JLB

 

[civilwarbuff]

Please read the phrase... shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Shall be = will become

We have eternal life through faith, in Jesus Christ, which means we have the hope of eternal life.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, Titus 1:1-2

• in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.

and again

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:4-7

• we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

JLB

You have to drink the water first in order for it to be present tense, until that is done it IS future tense.
14 But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Once the water is given/accepted the 'well of water' then springs up.....it is now present tense.

 

[chessman]

You have to drink the water first in order for it to be present tense, until that is done it IS future tense.

So true.
And you can taste something without actually drinking it too. I knew a man who said he "tasted" pot once but didn't actually inhail it.

 

[JLB]

Once the water is given/accepted the 'well of water' then springs up.....it is now present tense.

13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 4:13-14

whoever drinks... shows a measure is received now in the present tense.


Shall become....
Springing up...

Show us there will come be a greater fullness.


Jesus had the Spirit in fullness:

34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:34-36




JLB

 

[JLB]

Except the passage doesn't say that eternal life is something future. What is future is eternity. Living in eternity. But Jesus was clear about WHEN one HAS eternal life:
John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Therefore, John 5:24 proves that WHEN one believes in Jesus Christ, they HAVE, as in the PRESENT TENSE, eternal life.

Yes, as long as we are joined to the Lord, we have access to the eternal life within Him, as a branch that is connected to the Vine, has access to the life of the Vine.

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.


It is a very real possibility, for whatever reason, to become disconnected from Him, like the example of the branch becoming disconnected from the Vine.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Those who become disconnected from Him, are gathered up and cast into the fire and burned.

Eternal life, like salvation comes at the end, to those who bear fruit unto holiness, in which they will inherit eternal life.

By default, if you are set to inherit something, then by default you have not received it yet.

• That is why the Holy Spirit, through Paul, teaches us we do indeed have the "hope" of eternal life.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, Titus 1:1-2

• in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7

• Eternal life is received at the end of a fruitful life of obedience

21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:21-23


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good
• to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

 

[FreeGrace]

Please notice this phrase: the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

Notice that it is not instantaneous, but shown to be a process of becoming.

Become is a word associated with us becoming sons of God, as well.

John 5:24 says that those who believe HAVE (as in present tense) eternal life. Your claims are contrary to what Jesus said in John 5:24.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12 KJV

What prevents those who "have received Him" to immediately become the sons of God? Is there any Scripture that teaches that there is some time period AFTER receiving Him that one finally becomes a son of God?

It is during the process that the danger of turning away, falling away, or departing from the Living God, is relevant.

I'd be quite interested in any verse or passage that plainly teaches this as a requirement for becoming a son of God.

Which is why we are taught to continue in the faith, to the end, for it is at the end we receive eternal life.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:20-23

• you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

The end result of a life of righteousness and holiness is eternal life.

Since Jesus was quite plain in His words in John 5:24, that when one believes, they HAVE eternal life, it is equally plain that your view of Rom 6:20-22 is in in stark contrast with what Jesus said.

Why doesn't the term "everlasting life" refer to eternity? Otherwise, there is contradiction within the Bible.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, as long as we are joined to the Lord, we have access to the eternal life within Him, as a branch that is connected to the Vine, has access to the life of the Vine.

What verse actually says that "as long as we are joined to the Lord, we have access to the eternal life within Him"? Jesus said that those He GIVES eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28. So how can there be any "as long as..." conditions? Jesus didn't give any conditions other than simply GIVING eternal life to believers.

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

I don't see any reference to eternal life here.

It is a very real possibility, for whatever reason, to become disconnected from Him, like the example of the branch becoming disconnected from the Vine.

In fact, Paul taught that those who believe are sealed IN HIM, for the day of redemption. Where is the verse that teaches that this specific sealing with the Holy Spirit can be broken for any reason? That alone would support your claim.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

I don't see anything here about being "disconnected from Him", as you propose.

Eternal life, like salvation comes at the end, to those who bear fruit unto holiness, in which they will inherit eternal life.

Actually, Jesus said that those who believe HAVE (as in the present tense) eternal life in John 5:24.

 

[JLB]

What verse actually says that "as long as we are joined to the Lord, we have access to the eternal life within Him"? Jesus said that those He GIVES eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28. So how can there be any "as long as..." conditions? Jesus didn't give any conditions other than simply GIVING eternal life to believers.

He gives eternal life to those who believe.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

Those who are "in Him" have life.
Those who are "in Him", then later, are removed from Him, are cast into the fire and burned.

He gives eternal life to those who believe.
Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Ignoring what the scriptures say, about when we receive eternal life, and failing to reconcile them all, not just the phrases you pick out of context, will lead to a misunderstanding of what the fullness of the scriptures say.


Eternal life, like salvation comes at the end, to those who bear fruit unto holiness, in which they will inherit eternal life.

By default, if you are set to inherit something, then by default you have not received it yet.

• That is why the Holy Spirit, through Paul, teaches us we do indeed have the "hope" of eternal life.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, Titus 1:1-2

• in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7

• Eternal life is received at the end of a fruitful life of obedience

21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:21-23


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good
• to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

 

[JLB]

John 5:24 says that those who believe HAVE (as in present tense) eternal life. Your claims are contrary to what Jesus said in John 5:24.

Post what John 5:24 and the surrounding context says, and make your point from what the scriptures and context say.

• all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29

JLB

 

[chessman]

Please refer to the actual things I have said, in my post, not what you "make up".

I did refer to what you said.
I did not make up your statement.
I asked you a clarifying question about your statement WRT John 4:14:

Here's your statement in reference to John 4:14 again:

Become is a word associated with us becoming sons of God, as well.

WRT John 4, is it your interpretation that Jesus is saying the drinker becomes the well?

Your reply doesn't answer the clarying question. Do you interpret Jesus' words in John 4:14 to mean that drinkers become wells, Yes or no?

It's a simply question.

 

[JLB]

I did refer to what you said.
I did not make up your statement.
I asked you a clarifying question about your statement WRT John 4:14:

Here's your statement in reference to John 4:14 again:




Your reply doesn't answer the clarying question. Do you interpret Jesus' words in John 4:14 to mean that drinkers become wells, Yes or no?

It's a simply question.

[edited]

He gives eternal life to those who believe.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

Those who are "in Him" have life.
Those who are "in Him", then later, are removed from Him, are cast into the fire and burned.

He gives eternal life to those who believe.
Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Ignoring what the scriptures say, about when we receive eternal life, and failing to reconcile them all, not just the phrases you pick out of context, will lead to a misunderstanding of what the fullness of the scriptures say.


Eternal life, like salvation comes at the end, to those who bear fruit unto holiness, in which they will inherit eternal life.

By default, if you are set to inherit something, then by default you have not received it yet.

• That is why the Holy Spirit, through Paul, teaches us we do indeed have the "hope" of eternal life.

Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, Titus 1:1-2

• in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:5-7

• Eternal life is received at the end of a fruitful life of obedience

21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:21-23


God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

• God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good
• to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath

JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

He gives eternal life to those who believe.

Yes, He sure does. And He said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH in John 10:28.

Now, if one can lose eternal life, and end up being cast into the lake of fire, Jesus' statement is a lie. Plain and simple.

So I believe Jesus. Those who He's given eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. Period. No one has proven otherwise.

He gives eternal life to those who believe.
Those who believe for a while, then no longer believe, are no longer believers.

Immaterial. Where is any verse that says that those who believe for a while and then fall away (Luke 8:13) lose salvation or eternal life?

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Nothing here about losing either salvation or eternal life.

Ignoring what the scriptures say, about when we receive eternal life, and failing to reconcile them all, not just the phrases you pick out of context, will lead to a misunderstanding of what the fullness of the scriptures say.

If I've used Johyn 5:24 "out of context", as being charged, please provide explanation of how it is "out of context".

Eternal life, like salvation comes at the end, to those who bear fruit unto holiness, in which they will inherit eternal life.

That is NOT what Jesus said in John 5:24.

Eternal life is received at the end of a fruitful life of obedience

That's what the Pharisees thought, too. John 5 -
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Jesus was speaking to Pharisees.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

And Romans 3:20 says that no one will be declared righteous by observing the Law.

Is keeping (observing) the Law considered righteous?

 

[FreeGrace]

Post what John 5:24 and the surrounding context says, and make your point from what the scriptures and context say.

Why? Does the context change anything about when one HAS eternal life? Please explain.

all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Nothing here about WHEN one HAS eternal life. It does speak of resurrection though.

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:24-29
JLB

The bolded and colored phrase in v.24 is a FACT. Nothing in the context changes that FACT.

 

[JohnDB]

Due to the exhaustive nature of the many times this subject has been discussed I'm am closing this thread before circular arguments give rise to hostile speech.