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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Christ as Mediator ! cont -
Jesus Christ as Mediator is also The Great High Priest of His People that He died for, which entails Him making expiation and intercession for them Rom 8:33-34, His sacrificial death is the foundation for His intercession for His elect. This was typed and figured by the Old Dispensation, the Levitical Priesthood. The numerous sacrifices and the annual day of atonement were but types of that He was to accomplish Jn 1:29. He gives true meaning, He gave a once and for all substitutionary value for the sinful souls of His People, for it was blood that made atonement for the soul. Also as High Priest and based upon His atoning blood, He continually makes intercession as a Faithful High Priest. Heb 7:25 ;Heb 2:17.
As foreshadowed under Moses and the Prophets, Christ was legally and imputatively made sin [and offering] for His People, in order that they both legally and by imputation be made the righteousness of God in Him 2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. The we and us are not referring to all mankind without exception, but the called out ones, the Church. This is a gospel Truth, Christ in His Mediator capacity as the High Priest of God for the sins of God's People.
Jesus Christ as Mediator is also The Great High Priest of His People that He died for, which entails Him making expiation and intercession for them Rom 8:33-34, His sacrificial death is the foundation for His intercession for His elect. This was typed and figured by the Old Dispensation, the Levitical Priesthood. The numerous sacrifices and the annual day of atonement were but types of that He was to accomplish Jn 1:29. He gives true meaning, He gave a once and for all substitutionary value for the sinful souls of His People, for it was blood that made atonement for the soul. Also as High Priest and based upon His atoning blood, He continually makes intercession as a Faithful High Priest. Heb 7:25 ;Heb 2:17.
As foreshadowed under Moses and the Prophets, Christ was legally and imputatively made sin [and offering] for His People, in order that they both legally and by imputation be made the righteousness of God in Him 2 Cor 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. The we and us are not referring to all mankind without exception, but the called out ones, the Church. This is a gospel Truth, Christ in His Mediator capacity as the High Priest of God for the sins of God's People.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Christ as Mediator Cont
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator capacity 1 Tim 2:5, is also Prince or King, that is He serves in a Regal or Imperial Capacity for His People, all those He died for. This was mostly typed and foreshadowed under the Davidic Kingship. There had been promises given of raising up a Righteous King under whose Government truth and peace should abound, and it is Christ that they receive their fulfillment 2 Cor 1:20
20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
The New Testament sets forth His exaltation and the fact that He now has all Power both in Heaven and Earth Matt 28:18; as the reward for His work of the Cross. See Isa 53:10;Eph 1:19-23 and Phil 2:8-11.
For it was of the Divine Counsel that the management of the dispensation of Grace be entrusted to Him whom by His death the foundation has been laid for True fellowship between God and Men. Hence the primary reason or purpose for Christ as Mediator receiving all Power and Authority, was not only for His own Glory and vindication, but accompanying that, was that He would give Spiritual and Practical application to the purpose of His Father in saving all His Elect. The Nature of this Eternal Purpose determined the design and extent of His Mediatorial activity. That purpose regarded the conversion from the power of satan, all Gods elect scattered throughout the world. So His imperial rule is full and complete and more than adequate to accomplish the Divine Purpose see Jn 17:2; 1 Pet 3:22; Acts 5:31;Eph 1:20-22.
The Lord Jesus Christ in His Mediator capacity 1 Tim 2:5, is also Prince or King, that is He serves in a Regal or Imperial Capacity for His People, all those He died for. This was mostly typed and foreshadowed under the Davidic Kingship. There had been promises given of raising up a Righteous King under whose Government truth and peace should abound, and it is Christ that they receive their fulfillment 2 Cor 1:20
20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
The New Testament sets forth His exaltation and the fact that He now has all Power both in Heaven and Earth Matt 28:18; as the reward for His work of the Cross. See Isa 53:10;Eph 1:19-23 and Phil 2:8-11.
For it was of the Divine Counsel that the management of the dispensation of Grace be entrusted to Him whom by His death the foundation has been laid for True fellowship between God and Men. Hence the primary reason or purpose for Christ as Mediator receiving all Power and Authority, was not only for His own Glory and vindication, but accompanying that, was that He would give Spiritual and Practical application to the purpose of His Father in saving all His Elect. The Nature of this Eternal Purpose determined the design and extent of His Mediatorial activity. That purpose regarded the conversion from the power of satan, all Gods elect scattered throughout the world. So His imperial rule is full and complete and more than adequate to accomplish the Divine Purpose see Jn 17:2; 1 Pet 3:22; Acts 5:31;Eph 1:20-22.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Son of Man is come !
Lk 19:10
10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
The Son of Man has come ! Where did He come from ? He says that I came down from heaven Per Jn 6:38
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Many today limit this coming down from heaven as to Him as God [Which He was Jn 1:1,14], but not as The Mediator Man as per 1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Many religionists say that the Son of Man from Heaven did not exist as Man until He was conceived of the Virgin Mary, and so they see that as foolishness and unreasonable that the Man Christ Jesus preexisted in Heaven before His incarnation whereby He took on flesh and blood [Heb 2:14].
However the Truth being told, is that He did exist as Man, the First Man ever born [ Job 15:7 cp Prov 8:25] before the virgin birth , and before Adam was ever created from the dust, in fact Adam was created after His form and Likeness, which was a figure of Him to come Rom 5:14.
Nevertheless men refuse the light of scripture revelation on this momentous point of the doctrine of Christology. To misunderstand it is willful ignorance in favor of the religious tradition of men. Now lets look at some of the scriptures that plainly sets forth this doctrine.
Jn 3:13
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Surely the grammatical construction of this verse is Identifying the Man, the Son of Man as coming down from Heaven. cp with Eph 4:9
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Jn 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Now there are many other scriptures to validate this point, but these are enough for the Faith of God's elect to receive as truth from above.
Lk 19:10
10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
The Son of Man has come ! Where did He come from ? He says that I came down from heaven Per Jn 6:38
38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Many today limit this coming down from heaven as to Him as God [Which He was Jn 1:1,14], but not as The Mediator Man as per 1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Many religionists say that the Son of Man from Heaven did not exist as Man until He was conceived of the Virgin Mary, and so they see that as foolishness and unreasonable that the Man Christ Jesus preexisted in Heaven before His incarnation whereby He took on flesh and blood [Heb 2:14].
However the Truth being told, is that He did exist as Man, the First Man ever born [ Job 15:7 cp Prov 8:25] before the virgin birth , and before Adam was ever created from the dust, in fact Adam was created after His form and Likeness, which was a figure of Him to come Rom 5:14.
Nevertheless men refuse the light of scripture revelation on this momentous point of the doctrine of Christology. To misunderstand it is willful ignorance in favor of the religious tradition of men. Now lets look at some of the scriptures that plainly sets forth this doctrine.
Jn 3:13
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Surely the grammatical construction of this verse is Identifying the Man, the Son of Man as coming down from Heaven. cp with Eph 4:9
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Jn 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Now there are many other scriptures to validate this point, but these are enough for the Faith of God's elect to receive as truth from above.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The Mediator Manhood of Christ Jesus is a aspect of the Eternal Word, that was brought forth before all worlds, and which was the medium of operation in the Creation Prov 8:22
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
The LXX reads for His works :The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works. To be the medium of Creation !
Col 1:15-17
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Rev 3:14
14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
He was designated the Head of the Church [ Which is Mediator] in which Grace was given the Church in Him 2 Tim 1:9, in which God chose His People in Him Eph 1:4, and Gave them in Him, the Promise of Eternal Life .
I emphasize Promise of Life Eternal. Titus 1:1-2
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 Jn 2:25
25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
It was because He was setup as the Mediator Man before the world began , the Man Christ Jesus, He was the depository of all that Grace that was given the Church in Him 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The Christ Jesus here is the exact same Christ Jesus here 1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Now, why deny His existence as the Man Christ Jesus before the World began ? How was Grace given the elect in Him then, if He did not exist then ?
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The Mediator Manhood of Christ Jesus is a aspect of the Eternal Word, that was brought forth before all worlds, and which was the medium of operation in the Creation Prov 8:22
22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
The LXX reads for His works :The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works. To be the medium of Creation !
Col 1:15-17
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Rev 3:14
14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
He was designated the Head of the Church [ Which is Mediator] in which Grace was given the Church in Him 2 Tim 1:9, in which God chose His People in Him Eph 1:4, and Gave them in Him, the Promise of Eternal Life .
I emphasize Promise of Life Eternal. Titus 1:1-2
1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 Jn 2:25
25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
It was because He was setup as the Mediator Man before the world began , the Man Christ Jesus, He was the depository of all that Grace that was given the Church in Him 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
The Christ Jesus here is the exact same Christ Jesus here 1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Now, why deny His existence as the Man Christ Jesus before the World began ? How was Grace given the elect in Him then, if He did not exist then ?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Mediator Man's Preexsistence !
Many fail to bow to the revelation of scripture through the Apostle Paul, that Jesus Christ [The Mediator Man 1 Tim 2:5] also called Christ Jesus existed before Creation as Col 1:16-17 and Eph 3:8-9 implies.
Col 1:16-17
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Eph 3:8-9
8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Here the inspired writer writes that God has created all things, and Jesus Christ is He by which He did create all things ! Please note that He by inspiration called Him Jesus Christ. Here we read of the Mystery hid in God and of the unsearchable riches of Christ, now surely the riches of Christ are the Mystery hid in God, and so then, if the Mystery hid in God is the unsearchable riches of Christ, by whom God created all things, then Christ must have been in existence when God created all things by Him !
Now this is not referring to the Flesh and Blood existence of Jesus Christ, for this is before creation and His incarnation, and it cannot be referring to His Deity as God the Word or else God would be creating by God, but God is not a medium or mediator, but the Mediator or Medium is Christ Jesus the Man 1 Tim 2:5.
So Jesus Christ by whom God created all things is the Man Christ Jesus. Now many who believe in the pre existence of the Mediator Man Christ Jesus, say that it was only His Soul or Spirit that then existed apart from any actual body, however I believe that is a mistake and that He had an actual body, just not flesh and blood, but like as it is now, a Glorified body existence, as perhaps as He was seen on the Mt of Transfiguration Matt 17:2-3
2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Which was a glimpse of that same Glory which He had with the Father before the world was Jn 17:5
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus here is praying as Mediator !
Many fail to bow to the revelation of scripture through the Apostle Paul, that Jesus Christ [The Mediator Man 1 Tim 2:5] also called Christ Jesus existed before Creation as Col 1:16-17 and Eph 3:8-9 implies.
Col 1:16-17
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Eph 3:8-9
8Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Here the inspired writer writes that God has created all things, and Jesus Christ is He by which He did create all things ! Please note that He by inspiration called Him Jesus Christ. Here we read of the Mystery hid in God and of the unsearchable riches of Christ, now surely the riches of Christ are the Mystery hid in God, and so then, if the Mystery hid in God is the unsearchable riches of Christ, by whom God created all things, then Christ must have been in existence when God created all things by Him !
Now this is not referring to the Flesh and Blood existence of Jesus Christ, for this is before creation and His incarnation, and it cannot be referring to His Deity as God the Word or else God would be creating by God, but God is not a medium or mediator, but the Mediator or Medium is Christ Jesus the Man 1 Tim 2:5.
So Jesus Christ by whom God created all things is the Man Christ Jesus. Now many who believe in the pre existence of the Mediator Man Christ Jesus, say that it was only His Soul or Spirit that then existed apart from any actual body, however I believe that is a mistake and that He had an actual body, just not flesh and blood, but like as it is now, a Glorified body existence, as perhaps as He was seen on the Mt of Transfiguration Matt 17:2-3
2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Which was a glimpse of that same Glory which He had with the Father before the world was Jn 17:5
5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus here is praying as Mediator !
A
Asyncritus
Guest
SBG
As you are the most prolific writer on this thread, may I ask you the question to which I have had no satisfactory answer as yet?
You have said that Jesus (as per Col 1 and other passages) was the one who created all things.
I have before me this problem which that understanding creates.
Nowadays, we can take a fertilised embryo from one mother, and for various reasons implant it into another woman's womb, who then brings the embryo to full term.
When the child is born, two things happen:
1 The child can in no way be called the child of the surrogate mother
2 The child cannot be said to have been CONCEIVED by the surrogate mother.
I hope you think that's correct. I can see no objection to those statements.
This applies to the Lord Jesus as follows:
If He was a conscious, intelligent, creating being BEFORE He was born of Mary, then He was not CONCEIVED by her. He was fully in existence before that.
He was implanted/transplanted into her womb by the Holy Spirit.
I hope you agree with that statement too.
Here's the difficulty:
Gabriel, bearing the Father's message which is recorded by Luke, the medical doctor, says to her: 'Thou shalt CONCEIVE in thy womb and bring forth a SON'.
If Jesus was implanted/transplanted into her womb, then Gabriel, Luke and the Father are all wrong, because they have used faulty terminology. They should have used another word (like engrafted or similar) to describe what was going to happen.
They didn't.
They said 'conceive'. And just to clarify matters even further, Gabriel says :
Lk 1.36 And behold, Elisabeth thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that was called barren.
Exactly the same Greek word is used in both cases.
So were they wrong? Or is your understanding wrong? Or what?
As you are the most prolific writer on this thread, may I ask you the question to which I have had no satisfactory answer as yet?
You have said that Jesus (as per Col 1 and other passages) was the one who created all things.
I have before me this problem which that understanding creates.
Nowadays, we can take a fertilised embryo from one mother, and for various reasons implant it into another woman's womb, who then brings the embryo to full term.
When the child is born, two things happen:
1 The child can in no way be called the child of the surrogate mother
2 The child cannot be said to have been CONCEIVED by the surrogate mother.
I hope you think that's correct. I can see no objection to those statements.
This applies to the Lord Jesus as follows:
If He was a conscious, intelligent, creating being BEFORE He was born of Mary, then He was not CONCEIVED by her. He was fully in existence before that.
He was implanted/transplanted into her womb by the Holy Spirit.
I hope you agree with that statement too.
Here's the difficulty:
Gabriel, bearing the Father's message which is recorded by Luke, the medical doctor, says to her: 'Thou shalt CONCEIVE in thy womb and bring forth a SON'.
If Jesus was implanted/transplanted into her womb, then Gabriel, Luke and the Father are all wrong, because they have used faulty terminology. They should have used another word (like engrafted or similar) to describe what was going to happen.
They didn't.
They said 'conceive'. And just to clarify matters even further, Gabriel says :
Lk 1.36 And behold, Elisabeth thy kinswoman, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that was called barren.
Exactly the same Greek word is used in both cases.
So were they wrong? Or is your understanding wrong? Or what?
Eventide
Member
I don't get this argument here.. we know that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit, right..? Not by natural means as by the man..
A
Asyncritus
Guest
That is correct, Eventide.
The problem is, if He existed before His birth of Mary, then she could not have CONCEIVED Him. He was already alive, powerful etc etc.
That makes nonsense of what Gabriel actually said, and that's a serious problem to pre-existentialists.
The problem is, if He existed before His birth of Mary, then she could not have CONCEIVED Him. He was already alive, powerful etc etc.
That makes nonsense of what Gabriel actually said, and that's a serious problem to pre-existentialists.
Conjecture.
A
Asyncritus
Guest
Pardon?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Appointed Heir of All things !
Matt 21:38
But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It was the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator [1 Tim 2:5] that was appointed all things.
Now when was He appointed Heir of All things ? I believe the verse itself answers that. When it was by Him that God made the worlds or ages. This verse speaks of God and the Son being distinct as it would be if Christ is the Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5. God the Father is Superior to Christ Jesus in His capacity as Mediator. God as the Creator of the Worlds and Christ as that Efficient Cause which He did Create by, this is the same as Eph 3:9. God here as the appointer of an Heir, and Christ as being appointed Heir. This language is used also in Gal 4:1-2
1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
This passage is to Illustrate that the Father in these things is over the Son who is the Heir.
Also in this Abraham was a type of Christ in that He was Heir of the world Rom 4:13
13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Now this being appointed Heir could not have been referring to the Deity of Christ as God, by which He is one Essentially with the Father, as the Appointer of an Heir is Greater than the appointed Heir [ See Jn 14:28]. It is difficult to understand how serious bible readers cannot see the evidences of the Preexistence of Christ in a subordinate nature to the Father, which I conclude is that of the Man Christ Jesus the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5
Matt 21:38
But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Heb 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
It was the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator [1 Tim 2:5] that was appointed all things.
Now when was He appointed Heir of All things ? I believe the verse itself answers that. When it was by Him that God made the worlds or ages. This verse speaks of God and the Son being distinct as it would be if Christ is the Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5. God the Father is Superior to Christ Jesus in His capacity as Mediator. God as the Creator of the Worlds and Christ as that Efficient Cause which He did Create by, this is the same as Eph 3:9. God here as the appointer of an Heir, and Christ as being appointed Heir. This language is used also in Gal 4:1-2
1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
This passage is to Illustrate that the Father in these things is over the Son who is the Heir.
Also in this Abraham was a type of Christ in that He was Heir of the world Rom 4:13
13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Now this being appointed Heir could not have been referring to the Deity of Christ as God, by which He is one Essentially with the Father, as the Appointer of an Heir is Greater than the appointed Heir [ See Jn 14:28]. It is difficult to understand how serious bible readers cannot see the evidences of the Preexistence of Christ in a subordinate nature to the Father, which I conclude is that of the Man Christ Jesus the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5
Rageprophet
Member
I have noticed that people who don't talk a lot don't say much either.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
More on Peter's Confession !
We know Jesus Christ existed before being made flesh by Peter's confession Matt 16:16,17
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
This was not a natural knowledge of who Christ was, but Truth was revealed to him by the Sovereignty of God the Father, Notice Jesus response in vs 17
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. see Matt 11:27
This confession had nothing to do with Peter's knowledge of Christ being born of a virgin, that is His Mother Mary, but that He was that promised Son that was to be given Isa 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Gal 4:4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Being born of Mary did not constitute Christ as God's Son, for He was that before the world began, eternally begotten Jn 1:14; Prov 8:24-25
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
In these two verses the words brought forth can mean to be born
The LXX of these Two verses read:
24 even before he made the depths; before the fountains of water came forth:
25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me.
Also, neither was He the Christ by being born of Mary, the Anointed one. For He was Anointed into His Mediatorial Offices when He was brought forth from the womb of Eternity. Prov 8:23
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
The phrase set up here is the hebrew word nacak :
to pour out, pour, offer, cast
a) (Qal)
1) to pour out
2) to cast metal images
3) to anoint (a king)
b) (Niphal) to be anointed
So from Everlasting He established as the Christ, the Anointed Prophet,Priest,and King, the Mediator between God and Men, notice what His delight was Prov 8:31
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Thats because He was the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator between God and Men, the Elect of Mankind, those Chosen and given to Him before the foundation.
So He was the Anointed One from Everlasting, He was The Begotten Son from Everlasting, so He existed as The Christ from everlasting. Now what was Anointed ? it could not have been His Deity, His God Head, no, God does not anoint God, but it was the Mediator Man, the Head of the Church that was Anointed.
So again, if we have been given understanding, we see that Jesus Christ, the Anointed One , The Son of God, existed from everlasting !
We know Jesus Christ existed before being made flesh by Peter's confession Matt 16:16,17
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
This was not a natural knowledge of who Christ was, but Truth was revealed to him by the Sovereignty of God the Father, Notice Jesus response in vs 17
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. see Matt 11:27
This confession had nothing to do with Peter's knowledge of Christ being born of a virgin, that is His Mother Mary, but that He was that promised Son that was to be given Isa 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Gal 4:4
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Being born of Mary did not constitute Christ as God's Son, for He was that before the world began, eternally begotten Jn 1:14; Prov 8:24-25
24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
In these two verses the words brought forth can mean to be born
The LXX of these Two verses read:
24 even before he made the depths; before the fountains of water came forth:
25 before the mountains were settled, and before all hills, he begets me.
Also, neither was He the Christ by being born of Mary, the Anointed one. For He was Anointed into His Mediatorial Offices when He was brought forth from the womb of Eternity. Prov 8:23
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
The phrase set up here is the hebrew word nacak :
to pour out, pour, offer, cast
a) (Qal)
1) to pour out
2) to cast metal images
3) to anoint (a king)
b) (Niphal) to be anointed
So from Everlasting He established as the Christ, the Anointed Prophet,Priest,and King, the Mediator between God and Men, notice what His delight was Prov 8:31
31Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Thats because He was the Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator between God and Men, the Elect of Mankind, those Chosen and given to Him before the foundation.
So He was the Anointed One from Everlasting, He was The Begotten Son from Everlasting, so He existed as The Christ from everlasting. Now what was Anointed ? it could not have been His Deity, His God Head, no, God does not anoint God, but it was the Mediator Man, the Head of the Church that was Anointed.
So again, if we have been given understanding, we see that Jesus Christ, the Anointed One , The Son of God, existed from everlasting !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
That Jesus existed as God-Man before the His virgin Birth, and before the world began is indicated here Jn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
If He was the Son of Man in Heaven while on Earth, then why not the Son of Man in Heaven before He came to Earth ? His Son of Man status was not out of Mary, but out of Him Being the God Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 !
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
If He was the Son of Man in Heaven while on Earth, then why not the Son of Man in Heaven before He came to Earth ? His Son of Man status was not out of Mary, but out of Him Being the God Man Mediator 1 Tim 2:5 !
As Time is a temporal existence and we are in a dispensation of time the term before he came to earth or after may only be from a temporal subjective point of view. For those who exist in eternity time is of no signifigance.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
child
Ok, so what is your point, and how is that significant to my previous post # 35 ?
Ok, so what is your point, and how is that significant to my previous post # 35 ?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Mediator, The Man Christ Jesus !
1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I would venture to say that as long as there has been One God and Men, there was the Mediator between them, The Man Christ Jesus. Now ask yourself, when and where did men begin ? I believe men [as it pertains to men in this verse] began with Adam. Gen 1:26
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 5:1-2
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
In verse one it says these are the generations [plural] of Adam, in the day that God created Man. The word man here can be the plural and mean mankind.
This is the book of the generations of Adam, meaning descendants of Adam, which were in Him When He was Created.
So, this Truth establishes the need of the Mediator, as early as Adam, because the purpose of the Mediator was to be a Mediator between God and Men. Now its not Like God to have one without the other , or that defeats the purpose of an Mediator. It would make no sense at all for men to exist, at anytime without a Mediator. And if there was an Mediator, it had to be the Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim 2:5. Jesus speaking as Mediator said Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [As Mediator].
No man covers men of all dispensations,beginning with Adam onward..
The mistake has been in the thinking of religious people and even people in general is that they believe that it was not possible for Jesus Christ to be the Man Mediator from Eternity without he being in actual Flesh and Blood Human Nature !
See, the Mediator would have had to exist from Eternity to be able to actually have been made the Mediator and Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, which predates Adam's physical creation. Heb 7:22
22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 13:20
20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Christ would not need a Human Body of Flesh and Blood to agree to be Surety and Mediator, however eventually He would have to partake as God Man, and in order to fulfill all the Surety and Mediatorial obligations of the Covenant, a Body of Flesh and Blood. In taking on this Body however did not make Him a different being,but just gave Him a different Nature capacitated for Death, the shedding of Blood, However He was still the Same God Man Mediator He was before being made Flesh and Blood. Jesus says in contemplation of finishing the work He came to do Jn 17:5
and now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
The Glory of and as being the God Man Mediator !
1 Tim 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I would venture to say that as long as there has been One God and Men, there was the Mediator between them, The Man Christ Jesus. Now ask yourself, when and where did men begin ? I believe men [as it pertains to men in this verse] began with Adam. Gen 1:26
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 5:1-2
1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
In verse one it says these are the generations [plural] of Adam, in the day that God created Man. The word man here can be the plural and mean mankind.
This is the book of the generations of Adam, meaning descendants of Adam, which were in Him When He was Created.
So, this Truth establishes the need of the Mediator, as early as Adam, because the purpose of the Mediator was to be a Mediator between God and Men. Now its not Like God to have one without the other , or that defeats the purpose of an Mediator. It would make no sense at all for men to exist, at anytime without a Mediator. And if there was an Mediator, it had to be the Man Christ Jesus 1 Tim 2:5. Jesus speaking as Mediator said Jn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [As Mediator].
No man covers men of all dispensations,beginning with Adam onward..
The mistake has been in the thinking of religious people and even people in general is that they believe that it was not possible for Jesus Christ to be the Man Mediator from Eternity without he being in actual Flesh and Blood Human Nature !
See, the Mediator would have had to exist from Eternity to be able to actually have been made the Mediator and Surety of the Everlasting Covenant, which predates Adam's physical creation. Heb 7:22
22By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 13:20
20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Christ would not need a Human Body of Flesh and Blood to agree to be Surety and Mediator, however eventually He would have to partake as God Man, and in order to fulfill all the Surety and Mediatorial obligations of the Covenant, a Body of Flesh and Blood. In taking on this Body however did not make Him a different being,but just gave Him a different Nature capacitated for Death, the shedding of Blood, However He was still the Same God Man Mediator He was before being made Flesh and Blood. Jesus says in contemplation of finishing the work He came to do Jn 17:5
and now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
The Glory of and as being the God Man Mediator !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
John 6:41-42
41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Jesus had said in vs 38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus is referring to Himself as the Mediator Man that came down from Heaven ! 1 Tim 2:5
The carnal jews could not understand this, because they knew him to be the son of Joseph and Mary.
And many today mistake His Manhood to have begun with Joseph and Mary, but it didn't. Yes His Flesh and Blood Form of a Man began out of Mary, but He existed as Mediator Man before that in Heaven.
Jesus says He is that Bread which came down from Heaven Jn 6:50
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Now bread cannot be a reference to His Absolute Deity, Yes though Christ is 100% God, His reference to being God is not the point here, but the Mediator. In fact He identifies His flesh as being that bread, which came down from Heaven.
Jn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
His Mediatorial Humanity is that which He gives for the Life of the world.
Flesh here also means His death, now His Deity was not going to die, even though He was a Man in Union with His Deity Jn 1:1 ;1 Tim 2:5
Yes, Jesus was God-Man before He became Incarnate in Flesh and Blood, He just was not Flesh and Blood God-Man ! He being the Living Bread coming down from Heaven indicates that He was the Living Bread before coming down from Heaven. Hence we read Jn 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man[Bread of Life] ascend up where he was before?
41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Jesus had said in vs 38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus is referring to Himself as the Mediator Man that came down from Heaven ! 1 Tim 2:5
The carnal jews could not understand this, because they knew him to be the son of Joseph and Mary.
And many today mistake His Manhood to have begun with Joseph and Mary, but it didn't. Yes His Flesh and Blood Form of a Man began out of Mary, but He existed as Mediator Man before that in Heaven.
Jesus says He is that Bread which came down from Heaven Jn 6:50
This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Now bread cannot be a reference to His Absolute Deity, Yes though Christ is 100% God, His reference to being God is not the point here, but the Mediator. In fact He identifies His flesh as being that bread, which came down from Heaven.
Jn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
His Mediatorial Humanity is that which He gives for the Life of the world.
Flesh here also means His death, now His Deity was not going to die, even though He was a Man in Union with His Deity Jn 1:1 ;1 Tim 2:5
Yes, Jesus was God-Man before He became Incarnate in Flesh and Blood, He just was not Flesh and Blood God-Man ! He being the Living Bread coming down from Heaven indicates that He was the Living Bread before coming down from Heaven. Hence we read Jn 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man[Bread of Life] ascend up where he was before?
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
An Appearance of Jesus Christ the God Man Mediator !
An Appearance of Jesus Christ the God Man Mediator in the OT to Joshua. Joshua 5:13-15
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
This word captain is also translated prince ! It refers to Christ in Daniel 8:25
25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
This Man was Christ, the Anointed one, The Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5. He told Joshua that He was Captain of the Lords Host, that means over all Angels and Men and Principality, of both Heaven and Earth.
And Joshua recognized His Deity because after the God Man spoke, Joshua paid homage to Him, just as Moses Paid Homage to Him at the Mount Ex 3:5
5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
This actually condemns those who deny Christ existed as a Man Pre-Incarnation and it condemns all those who deny Jesus is God ! Jesus was God-Man before the world was Created !
An Appearance of Jesus Christ the God Man Mediator in the OT to Joshua. Joshua 5:13-15
13And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?
15And the captain of the LORD's host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.
This word captain is also translated prince ! It refers to Christ in Daniel 8:25
25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
This Man was Christ, the Anointed one, The Man Christ Jesus, the Mediator 1 Tim 2:5. He told Joshua that He was Captain of the Lords Host, that means over all Angels and Men and Principality, of both Heaven and Earth.
And Joshua recognized His Deity because after the God Man spoke, Joshua paid homage to Him, just as Moses Paid Homage to Him at the Mount Ex 3:5
5And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
This actually condemns those who deny Christ existed as a Man Pre-Incarnation and it condemns all those who deny Jesus is God ! Jesus was God-Man before the world was Created !