Jesus was Muslim

[Qasim786]

Garybee, can i ask how old you are (no carcasm hinted)

 

[Gary]

The issue in the world.... the BIG issue in Saudi Arabia

Now for the real crunch....

World:

• At birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
  Under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
  15-64 years: 1.03 male(s)/female
  65 years and over: 0.79 male(s)/female
  Total population: 1.01 male(s)/female (2004 est.)

So your whole thesis falls apart. Women should be able to marry more than 1 male. On average, there are 1% more males than females. That is 60,000,000 (60 MILLION) more males than females in total and in the 15-64 year range, their are 3% more males than females!!!

P.S. Did you see the statistics for Saudi Arabia? Muhammad's whole argument falls apart there as well!!

:bday: :bday:

 

[Qasim786]

It wasnt Muhammeds argument, it was my argument

 

[Qasim786]

how old are you?

 

[Gary]

The argument halts right here... in Saudi Arabia!

OK... what was Muhammad's argument then? How did he justify having 9 to 11 wives and many concubines and slaves he had sex with but he only allows you up to have 4 wives? Have you considered taking concubines and sex-slaves like Muhammad?

Now over to Saudi Arabia...

• At birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
  Under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
  15-64 years: 1.36 male(s)/female
  65 years and over: 1.18 male(s)/female
  Total population: 1.22 male(s)/female (2004 est.)

So this is a wonderful example of a place where women should be allowed to have multiple husbands. Do you agree? Or a few toy-boys on the side?

P.S. I am not available to marry you although I do fall into the 15-64 age group.

:wink:

 

[DivineNames]

5. Rape. Big Problem. What is the Solution? The Islamic Law for Rape is the Death Penalty. Aside from that our dress code is one that solves this problem.

Why did Muhammad allow rape?


That seems morally questionable, just as Muhammad having people killed seems morally questionable.

 

[Qasim786]

Where Does Muhammed Allow Rape?

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the rest of your life with the man who raped you.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/ ... erting.htm

http://www.themodernreligion.com/w_main.htm#hijab

Muhammed Treated Women with the Utmost Respect.

 

[Quath]

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped? According to the Bible, you have to spend the rest of your life with the man who raped you.

I agree with you that this was a horrible rule. The concept waqs based on a woman being property that could be ruined.

Muhammed Treated Women with the Utmost Respect.

I am not so sure about this. Would Islam allow for a woman to have multiple husbands? If not, then it is unduely sexist for a man to have multiple wives.

Quath

 

[Qasim786]

Would Islam allow for a woman to have multiple husbands? If not, then it is unduely sexist for a man to have multiple wives.

You will find the answer on this link. Please try to read it all.



http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

Also read the Following which is also from this site (By Dr.Zakir Naik):

Question:

If a man is allowed to have more than one wife, then why does Islam prohibit a woman from having more than one husband?

Answer:

A lot of people, including some Muslims, question the logic of allowing Muslim men to have more than one spouse while denying the same ‘right’ to women.

Let me first state emphatically, that the foundation of an Islamic society is justice and equity. Allah has created men and women as equal, but with different capabilities and different responsibilities. Men and women are different, physiologically and psychologically. Their roles and responsibilities are different. Men and women are equal in Islam, but not identical.

Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verses 22 to 24 gives the list of women with who you can not marry and it is further mentions in Surah Nisa’ Chapter 4 verse 24 "Also (prohibited are) women already married"

The following points enumerate the reasons why polyandry is prohibited in Islam:


1. If a man has more than one wife, the parents of the children born of such marriages can easily be identified. The father as well as the mother can easily be identified. In case of a woman marrying more than one husband, only the mother of the children born of such marriages will be identified and not the father. Islam gives tremendous importance to the identification of both parents, mother and father. Psychologists tell us that children who do not know their parents, especially their father undergo severe mental trauma and disturbances. Often they have an unhappy childhood. It is for this reason that the children of prostitutes do not have a healthy childhood. If a child born of such wedlock is admitted in school, and when the mother is asked the name of the father, she would have to give two or more names! I am aware that recent advances in science have made it possible for both the mother and father to be identified with the help of genetic testing. Thus this point which was applicable for the past may not be applicable for the present.


2. Man is more polygamous by nature as compared to a woman.


3. Biologically, it is easier for a man to perform his duties as a husband despite having several wives. A woman, in a similar position, having several husbands, will not find it possible to perform her duties as a wife. A woman undergoes several psychological and behavioral changes due to different phases of the menstrual cycle.


4. A woman who has more than one husband will have several sexual partners at the same time and has a high chance of acquiring venereal or sexually transmitted diseases which can also be transmitted back to her husband even if all of them have no extra-marital sex. This is not the case in a man having more than one wife, and none of them having extra-marital sex.


The above reasons are those that one can easily identify. There are probably many more reasons why Allah, in His Infinite Wisdom, has prohibited polyandry.

 

[Qasim786]

On the Link, scroll to the bottom and go to 'most common questions asked by non-muslims. Infact you will find alot of misunderstandings will be clarified here

 

[Qasim786]

Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.71 male(s)/female
total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2004 est.)

http://www.immigration-usa.com/wfb2004/ ... eople.html

0-14 years: 20.8% (male 31,122,974; female 29,713,748)
15-64 years: 66.9% (male 97,756,380; female 98,183,309)
65 years and over: 12.4% (male 15,078,204; female 21,172,956) (2004 est.)

Gary Bee Those Are the Figures That I got. Whos Lying you, these Figures. Even In the 15-64 year age group there are still more women then men. Check the link for yourself!

 

[Qasim786]

But these are just the General Arguments that are just extra proof, the arguments of the fruits of Muhammed, are how the Muslims as a whole live. We have a minority (very small minority) who consider that killing innocent people is acceptable. But the Majority of Muslims are actually peace loving, and that is the true Message of Islam. Look at the Muslims living in the west. Look at the Muslims living in your own country. Are they terrorists. Every True Muslim condemns killing of Innocent people The Media doesnt help in its portrayel of Islam, and seems to attack Islam from front, behind, left and Right. What are we to do? Muslims have a system, Islam is not only a Religion it is a way of life, an ideology. It is a system that keeps us remembereing our creater throughtout the day to remember that we have been created by him (5 times a day prayer). It is a system that if implemented correctly, prevents poverty (Obligatory Zakah, for those who can afford to pay). Islam is a system that eliminates the Problems that exist in society today like the examples i have given. "Every Good tree will bear good fruit and every evil tree will bear evil fruit" said Jesus. As a community as a whole, Islam has created the biggest society of non-drinkers in the world. They do not drink alcohol. But what are the implications of this. Study shows that alot of rapes are caused by being drunk, as with manslaughter and murder. What does it? Not just Prohibition, but a perfect system sent by God whereby everything fits together. The Following link shows how alcohol is related to social problems today.

http://www.ummah.org.uk/what-is-islam/m ... ohol.htm#1

 

[Quath]

You will find the answer on this link. Please try to read it all.

I will check it out.

1. If a man has more than one wife, the parents of the children born of such marriages can easily be identified. The father as well as the mother can easily be identified. In case of a woman marrying more than one husband, only the mother of the children born of such marriages will be identified and not the father. Islam gives tremendous importance to the identification of both parents, mother and father. Psychologists tell us that children who do not know their parents, especially their father undergo severe mental trauma and disturbances. Often they have an unhappy childhood. It is for this reason that the children of prostitutes do not have a healthy childhood. If a child born of such wedlock is admitted in school, and when the mother is asked the name of the father, she would have to give two or more names! I am aware that recent advances in science have made it possible for both the mother and father to be identified with the help of genetic testing. Thus this point which was applicable for the past may not be applicable for the present.

I guess in this day and age that wouldn't matter.

2. Man is more polygamous by nature as compared to a woman.

This sounds like a guess. From what I have seen, women are just as polygamous if given the chance.

3. Biologically, it is easier for a man to perform his duties as a husband despite having several wives. A woman, in a similar position, having several husbands, will not find it possible to perform her duties as a wife. A woman undergoes several psychological and behavioral changes due to different phases of the menstrual cycle.

Not sure what the point of this argument is. If how does a woman's menstrual cycle stop her from doing her duties?

4. A woman who has more than one husband will have several sexual partners at the same time and has a high chance of acquiring venereal or sexually transmitted diseases which can also be transmitted back to her husband even if all of them have no extra-marital sex. This is not the case in a man having more than one wife, and none of them having extra-marital sex.

If the husbands do not cheat, there are no veneral disease issues as well.

Sounds like Islam should support polygamy for all genders now-a-days.

Quath

 

[Gary]

USA
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/us.html

You will see that in the Age Structure we have:

• 0-14 years: 20.8% (male 31,122,974; female 29,713,748)
  15-64 years: 66.9% (male 97,756,380; female 98,183,309)
  65 years and over: 12.4% (male 15,078,204; female 21,172,956) (2004 est.)

In the Sex Ratio we have:

• at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
  under 15 years: 1.05 male(s)/female
  15-64 years: 1 male(s)/female
  65 years and over: 0.71 male(s)/female
  total population: 0.97 male(s)/female (2004 est.)

Now read the figures again: 97756380/98183309 = 99.5651715%
Hence they round it to 1.00

Now let's continue...

World Totals
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/xx.html

Age Structure

• 0-14 years: 28.2% (male 925,276,767; female 875,567,830)
  15-64 years: 64.5% (male 2,083,789,165; female 2,033,226,759)
  65 years and over: 7.2% (male 203,286,504; female 257,705,851)

So there are 50,562,406 (50 Million) more males than females in this age group (15-64)! Again, your theory goes out the window. Women should be able to marry more than one man. There are 50 million too many men!

Sex Ratio

• at birth: 1.06 male(s)/female
  under 15 years: 1.06 male(s)/female
  15-64 years: 1.03 male(s)/female
  65 years and over: 0.79 male(s)/female
  total population: 1.01 male(s)/female (2004 est.)

OK.... so your theory and the Islamic laws are obviously wrong in this area.

Let's look at Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/sa.html

Age Structure

• 0-14 years: 38.3% (male 5,039,578; female 4,845,937)
  15-64 years: 59.3% (male 8,810,705; female )
  65 years and over: 2.3% (male 327,047; female 277,901) (2004 est.)

hmmmmm so we have ... 2,315,935 more men than women in the 15-64 age group!!

That means that 25% (2,315,935/8,810,705) have no wives!!!

Again, it shows that women SHOULD be allowed to marry additional husbands in Saudi Arabia.

:bday: :bday:

 

[Gary]

United Kingdom
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... os/uk.html

Age Structure:

• 0-14 years: 18% (male 5,560,489; female 5,293,871)
  15-64 years: 66.3% (male 20,193,876; female 19,736,516)
  65 years and over: 15.7% (male 4,027,721; female 5,458,235) (2004 est.)

So again, we have more men than women in the age 15-64.

:wink: :wink:

 

[Gary]

Utmost Respect?

Muhammed Treated Women with the Utmost Respect.

That is not true at all. Let us look at how Muhammad treated women. He killed their husbands. He took slaves. While some of the husbands were still alive, Muhammad allowed his thugs to have sex with the women.

Want proof? I can supply it. Will you believe it?

http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/mu ... slaves.htm

I have only used Islamic sources. Do you deny them?

:wink:

 

[Gary]

The System

Muslims have a system, Islam is not only a Religion it is a way of life, an ideology. It is a system that keeps us remembereing our creater throughtout the day to remember that we have been created by him (5 times a day prayer). It is a system that if implemented correctly, prevents poverty (Obligatory Zakah, for those who can afford to pay). Islam is a system that eliminates the Problems that exist in society today like the examples i have given.

IF this "system" is so great, why not show us in which country it has been implemented to the full and the results.

Full Shari'a law was implemented in Afghanistan. That is what the Taliban stood for. Look at the abuse of women there.

Around the world, the most backward countries (in general) are those in which parts of Shari'a law have been implemented.

:o

 

[Gary]

Muslims admit their problems

Let us read something that educated Muslims themselves have written regarding their sad state of affairs. The report below was prepared by 50 Arab scholars.

U.N.: Lack of freedoms stunts Arab nations

Tue Jul 2, 2002 1:22 PM ET

by Barbara Slavin USA TODAY

A new United Nations report on human development in Arab countries describes economic, political and cultural problems and urges changes to keep the world's 280 million Arabs from falling farther behind.

The report, to be unveiled today at Arab League headquarters in Cairo, says the league's 22 members fall short in three key areas:

• * Freedom. Arab countries are the least free in terms of political participation, civil liberties and independent media.
  
  * Women. More than half of Arab women are illiterate, and many suffer from legal and social discrimination. They also have the lowest levels of political participation; women have 3.5% of seats in Arab legislative bodies, compared with 11% in sub-Saharan Africa.
  
  * Knowledge. Despite substantial investment in education, Arab schools are producing graduates ill-suited to the global economy. Only 0.6% of Arabs use the Internet, compared with 54% of Americans.

The growing number of young people with limited prospects is a major cause for concern in both Arab and Western nations. ''One of the reasons for terrorist attacks is the frustration of the younger generation,'' says Salama al-Ahmed Salama, a columnist for the influential Egyptian newspaper, Al-Ahram.

The report was prepared by about 50 Arab scholars under the auspices of the U.N. Development Program. It is being released just a week after President Bush made democratic and economic reforms a precondition for U.S. recognition of a Palestinian state.

The report points to some progress, such as increases in life expectancy. But economic growth lags despite the region's oil wealth. In 1999, the entire Arab world had a gross domestic product lower than Spain: $531 billion compared with $595 billion.

''We see a very strong link between lack of freedoms and lack of development,'' says Rima Khalaf, regional director of the U.N. Development Program. ''It results in low productivity and creativity.''

Source: http://www.mafhoum.com/press3/usa103.htm
and
http://www.mafhoum.com/press3/103S28.htm

:-?

 

[Gary]

Muhammad the rapist exposed

Did Muhammad allow rape?

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3371)
Source - CLICK HERE -

Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah be pleased with him) reported: We took women captives, and we wanted to do 'azl with them. We then asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3373)
Source - CLICK HERE -


Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: I have a slave-girl who is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practice 'azl, if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed for her would come to her. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3383)
Source - CLICK HERE -

Abu Said al-Khudri said: The apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, ‘And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hand possesses’. That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period. (Sunan of Abu Dawud, Volume 2, Number 2150)

These traditions shockingly demonstrate that Allah gave the Muslims the right to not only have sex with the captives without having to marry them, but to do it with their husbands present!

:o

 

[Gary]

Rape and punishment

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives" Deuteronomy 22:28-30

One must ask a simple question here, who is really punished, the man who raped the woman or the woman who was raped?

In fact, you have to read a bit more to understand this concept. Firstly, "HE must marry the girl".... HE and not SHE!!! This is the privilege of the girl to demand marriage. She or her father can refuse to marry. Read Exodus 22:17

• And if a man entice a virgin that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely pay a dowry for her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, HE SHALL PAY MONEY ACCORDING TO THE DOWRY OF VIRGIN. Exodus 22:15-17

First of all, the rapist will pay 50 shekels of silver (quite a big amount of money) - Deuteronomy 22:28. Then the girl can demand that he marries her (if she wants) and he can NEVER DIVORCE HER (note: HE and not SHE). If she does not want to marry, then the rapist will pay money that is used to write Ketuba (marriage contract) Exodus 22:17

In modern currency in Israel, that would be about $100 - 200 thousand. If you look at what the Israeli currency is worth in U.S. dollar amounts, ($.30 for each dollar) that means the average paid out by the rapist would be between 30 - 60 thousand dollars U.S.

Source: http://answer-islam.org/Rape.html
: