Job, a look at the man

[Dorothy Mae]

Some things regarding Job having been mulling about in my mind and I lay them out for your consideration.

What do we know of Job himself?
1. He was wealthy (Job 1:3) even called the most wealthy man in that part of the world
2. He was a good father such that his grown children were fond of each other partying together. Job 1:4
3. He was known for comforting others in distress giving advise and support (Job 4:3,4 and Job 31)
4. He did not trust in his own wealth (Job 31:24,25)
5. Read more Job 31 for a longer list of the good the man did and lived. It is very impressive. Please note that God does not rebuke him for detailing the good he did for others. That was not the problem nor did God think little of those choices. No, He praised Job for his lifestyle. The goodness of Job was not the issue.

There seem to be two men in the Bible whom God praised openly. One was Jesus and the other was Job. This is a pretty impressive description. What is God impressed with? Their behavior and words towards others as well as towards Himself. What does God require of man? To do justly by others, to love mercy when others fail and to walk humbly with Him. This Job did by all accounts and God's praise or pride in Job is a testimony of this.

I assume you have read Job and know the story. How he lost everything including his health. At first, we see that, in his response to that tragedy, Job did not sin. He did not blame God which was right because God did not do it. Job 1:33

Before it becomes a temptation to accuse Job of self-righteousness, let us remember that God said that Job was complete and hated sin. God himself. It is best to take God's view on a matter even if that view conflicts with theology you learned from man. Just a word of wisdom there.

So in the account, 4 friends came to comfort him. Three of these did wrong and God said so of them. (Job 42:7) What did they do? They said it was Job's fault that this had happened to him. God thought that conclusion was wrong and they needed to ask Job to forgive them and offer sacrifice so God would forgive them.

The fourth friend was not rebuked. That guy was angry at Job for justifying himself and at the other three for blaming Job. His anger seems to match God's view. What does he say differently? He talked about the greatness and justice of God. He told Job that he was wrong to justify himself.

This is what God did as well when He finally speaks to Job. He talks at length of the detail of his creation and various other aspects of His works. He also address Job's words justifying himself over and above God. This was his false step. (Job 40:8)

Now in Job 42:5 we see Job responding to the eye opening experience he had in seeing Himself as God saw him. This is similar to the experience Isaiah had described in Isaiah 6:1-5. This seeing Him or knowing his presence in such a manifestation is not your average "God is here moving our midst" so blithely sung today. And if you have not known this, you cannot understand it rightly and my advise is not to pretend you do. If you want to know this, ask God to show you your heart as he sees it. If He does, and you cannot do this yourself, you will understand. It is a pretty devastating experience so have tissues with you. Your heart is not anywhere close to as good as you think you are. People are fond of saying "God sees my heart" meaning he knows the good that is there. The truth is closer to He knows the awful stuff that is there and if you saw it, you would weep. Suffice it to say, no man after seeing his heart as God sees it, which is always coupled with seeing God in greater clarity and his holiness is what exposes the heart, is ever fooled about his own heart again. Job, who was more pleasing to God than any man outside of Jesus, had this experience and saw that he was justifying himself wrongly. That was his sin, as far as I can tell.

Now I admit this is not an extensive study of the book. So if you have a different view or think I missed something or misread something, please correct the above. I did not want to wait a long time pouring over Job before I started a discussion.

Thanks for reading the above!

Dottie

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Some things regarding Job having been mulling about in my mind and I lay them out for your consideration.

What do we know of Job himself?
1. He was wealthy (Job 1:3) even called the most wealthy man in that part of the world
2. He was a good father such that his grown children were fond of each other partying together. Job 1:4
3. He was known for comforting others in distress giving advise and support (Job 4:3,4 and Job 31)
4. He did not trust in his own wealth (Job 31:24,25)
5. Read more Job 31 for a longer list of the good the man did and lived. It is very impressive. Please note that God does not rebuke him for detailing the good he did for others. That was not the problem nor did God think little of those choices. No, He praised Job for his lifestyle. The goodness of Job was not the issue.

There seem to be two men in the Bible whom God praised openly. One was Jesus and the other was Job. This is a pretty impressive description. What is God impressed with? Their behavior and words towards others as well as towards Himself. What does God require of man? To do justly by others, to love mercy when others fail and to walk humbly with Him. This Job did by all accounts and God's praise or pride in Job is a testimony of this.

I assume you have read Job and know the story. How he lost everything including his health. At first, we see that, in his response to that tragedy, Job did not sin. He did not blame God which was right because God did not do it. Job 1:33

Before it becomes a temptation to accuse Job of self-righteousness, let us remember that God said that Job was complete and hated sin. God himself. It is best to take God's view on a matter even if that view conflicts with theology you learned from man. Just a word of wisdom there.

So in the account, 4 friends came to comfort him. Three of these did wrong and God said so of them. (Job 42:7) What did they do? They said it was Job's fault that this had happened to him. God thought that conclusion was wrong and they needed to ask Job to forgive them and offer sacrifice so God would forgive them.

The fourth friend was not rebuked. That guy was angry at Job for justifying himself and at the other three for blaming Job. His anger seems to match God's view. What does he say differently? He talked about the greatness and justice of God. He told Job that he was wrong to justify himself.

This is what God did as well when He finally speaks to Job. He talks at length of the detail of his creation and various other aspects of His works. He also address Job's words justifying himself over and above God. This was his false step. (Job 40:8)

Now in Job 42:5 we see Job responding to the eye opening experience he had in seeing Himself as God saw him. This is similar to the experience Isaiah had described in Isaiah 6:1-5. This seeing Him or knowing his presence in such a manifestation is not your average "God is here moving our midst" so blithely sung today. And if you have not known this, you cannot understand it rightly and my advise is not to pretend you do. If you want to know this, ask God to show you your heart as he sees it. If He does, and you cannot do this yourself, you will understand. It is a pretty devastating experience so have tissues with you. Your heart is not anywhere close to as good as you think you are. People are fond of saying "God sees my heart" meaning he knows the good that is there. The truth is closer to He knows the awful stuff that is there and if you saw it, you would weep. Suffice it to say, no man after seeing his heart as God sees it, which is always coupled with seeing God in greater clarity and his holiness is what exposes the heart, is ever fooled about his own heart again. Job, who was more pleasing to God than any man outside of Jesus, had this experience and saw that he was justifying himself wrongly. That was his sin, as far as I can tell.

Now I admit this is not an extensive study of the book. So if you have a different view or think I missed something or misread something, please correct the above. I did not want to wait a long time pouring over Job before I started a discussion.

Thanks for reading the above!

Dottie

Jn.12:38-41 is related to Isa.6. It shows how Isaiah saw the sufferings of our Lord. I believe Job 42:5 is where Job saw the suffering of Jesus, his mangled body due to the wrongdoing inflicted on him.

 

[WIP]

Before it becomes a temptation to accuse Job of self-righteousness, let us remember that God said that Job was complete and hated sin.

I think it is noteworthy that chapter 31, which you referenced, does not portray Job as being boastful as he presents a defense of his actions or himself. I think this is an important distinction. Making an honest and matter-of-fact assessment of one's self is not the same as making a proud or conceited self-evaluation. The latter is done for the purpose of puffing up one's own chest or for the purpose of bringing glory to one's self.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

I think it is noteworthy that chapter 31, which you referenced, does not portray Job as being boastful as he presents a defense of his actions or himself. I think this is an important distinction. Making an honest and matter-of-fact assessment of one's self is not the same as making a proud or conceited self-evaluation. The latter is done for the purpose of puffing up one's own chest or for the purpose of bringing glory to one's self.

The great Lord Jesus to a T.

And I do not seekMy own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. Jn.8:50

 

[Northman]

He did not blame God which was right because God did not do it. Job 1:33

You made a leap here that isn't written. The scripture stops at he did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing, the because part isn't there. Verses 6-12 clearly show God give permission for Job's life to be screwed with.

Isaiah 45:7 is probably the most "la-la-la!! I've got my fingers in my ears and can't hear you" verse for believers.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You made a leap here that isn't written. The scripture stops at he did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing, the because part isn't there. Verses 6-12 clearly show God give permission for Job's life to be screwed with.

Still God did not Himself take action. It’s a tricky one, I admit. But God did not hold himself guilty of wrong.

Isaiah 45:7 is probably the most "la-la-la!! I've got my fingers in my ears and can't hear you" verse for believers.

Could be although there are details given of God sending calamity in no uncertain terms. But yes, many don’t like certain verses, this among them.

 

[Northman]

Still God did not Himself take action. It’s a tricky one, I admit. But God did not hold himself guilty of wrong.

He wouldn't hold Himself guilty of wrongdoing over the untold number of babies that died in the flood either. Nor would He hold Himself guilty of wrongdoing when He commanded a spirit to deceive prophets. I also don't think God would hold Himself guilty of wrongdoing when He sent an evil spirit to torment Saul. The list goes on, with both direct and indirect action.

An important thing to note, is that God is the one that brought it all up, as in He was the provocateur.

Could be although there are details given of God sending calamity in no uncertain terms. But yes, many don’t like certain verses, this among them.

To clarify, I just meant the concept it covers, as in God sending something terrible into your life, even and especially when it's a matter like this where Job is an obvious servant and not numbered among the enemy. You probably understood that, but I have to say it anyway.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

He wouldn't hold Himself guilty of wrongdoing over the untold number of babies that died in the flood either.

What does that have to do with anything? Babies die. Where is it written that babies ought not to die?

Nor would He hold Himself guilty of wrongdoing when He commanded a spirit to deceive prophets. I also don't think God would hold Himself guilty of wrongdoing when He sent an evil spirit to torment Saul. The list goes on, with both direct and indirect action.

This is more difficult to understand than is generally taught in Sunday school. He doesn’t find himself guilty of wrong because he isn’t guilty of wrong.

An important thing to note, is that God is the one that brought it all up, as in He was the provocateur.

He is allowed to boast and not responsible for Satans reaction.

To clarify, I just meant the concept it covers, as in God sending something terrible into your life, even and especially when it's a matter like this where Job is an obvious servant and not numbered among the enemy. You probably understood that, but I have to say it anyway.

Yes. I agree. God does send calamity at times.

 

[Northman]

What does that have to do with anything? Babies die. Where is it written that babies ought not to die?

You brought it up, that God didn't hold Himself guilty of wrong. Not sure what the second question is for. The entire paragraph was for similar examples. It was more said to denote the absurdity of judging God's actions.

He is allowed to boast and not responsible for Satans reaction.

You can say that if you want, but the devil got straight up manipulated. God knew exactly what He was doing and what the enemy would do as a result. Nothing happening here was fly by the seat of your pants organic reactions with outcome unknown.

He doesn’t find himself guilty of wrong because he isn’t guilty of wrong.

Indeed! Even when He commands evil, which He can and does.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You brought it up, that God didn't hold Himself guilty of wrong. Not sure what the second question is for. The entire paragraph was for similar examples. It was more said to denote the absurdity of judging God's actions.

I don’t agree. It’s a part of understanding God.

You can say that if you want, but the devil got straight up manipulated.

No, God was open. Manipulation is hidden. God doesn’t manipulate.

God knew exactly what He was doing and what the enemy would do as a result. Nothing happening here was fly by the seat of your pants organic reactions with outcome unknown.

You yourself said it’s absurd to judge God’s actions. You’d best stick to that policy.

Indeed! Even when He commands evil, which He can and does.

He never commands moral evil. Never. But you’d best abide by your own policy. Do not judge God.

 

[Northman]

I don’t agree. It’s a part of understanding God.

You don't have to agree. You said it. The quote is "God did not hold Himself guilty of wrong." I didn't say that. You did. It's an absurd concept. I went further on the line of absurdity.

No, God was open. Manipulation is hidden. God doesn’t manipulate.

Definition of manipulate​

transitive verb
1: to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner

Yes He does.

You yourself said it’s absurd to judge God’s actions. You’d best stick to that policy.

Again, the paragraph was given for absurdity.

He never commands moral evil. Never. But you’d best abide by your own policy. Do not judge God.

1 Kings 22:19-22 completely disagrees with you. Not judging God isn't "my policy", it's His, and it really isn't a policy as much as it is flat out sin. More importantly, it hasn't been done.

 

[eddif]

There seem to be two men in the Bible whom God praised openly. One was Jesus and the other was Job.

Matthew 11:11 kjv
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

eddif

 

[WIP]

Matthew 11:11 kjv
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

eddif

He also regarded David as a man after His own heart. (1 Samuel 13:14 and continuing in 1 Samuel 16:1, 12 and again reiterated in Acts 13:22)

 

[christian1724]

These are some of the observations I have on studying to book of Job:

• We know of nothing that Job had done to offend God.
• We are even told that God was very pleased with Job.
• Job was destroyed.
• God was aware of Job's persecution before and during his destruction.
• God had the authority to prevent or stop it.
• Job never doubted God's authority over every moment.
• God had no need to prove Job to satan.
• We know by God's own Words that Job did not require testing.

​

Job is left to suffer out his tragedy unaware of what was going on behind the scenes. If fact there is not even any indication that God ever offered an explanation to Job the reason for his suffering. Was the whole tragedy without justification or needless? Obviously not. We (the onlookers) receive the enormous lesson of Job's temptation?.​

​

In having given us this account in the life of Job, we are able to see a side of God which otherwise might be difficult to receive.​

• God's wisdom and greater will are beyond us.
• We do not have the right to demand/expect of God His motivation or even to understand it.
• Expecting that He is just and reliable is mandatory.

In my thinking, there is no wrong done in Job's questioning his circumstances to God. However, Job might have thought he had a rightful expectation to know the ways and will of God.

What seemeth evil to us is, never the less, not outside of the will of God. Maybe better stated: 'Certain events, while displeasing/angering, are yet within His tolerance according to His wisdom, love, mercy and patience'. Or, to put it another way, according to His will.

 

[WIP]

These are some of the observations I have on studying to book of Job:

• We know of nothing that Job had done to offend God.
• We are even told that God was very pleased with Job.
• Job was destroyed.
• God was aware of Job's persecution before and during his destruction.
• God had the authority to prevent or stop it.
• Job never doubted God's authority over every moment.
• God had no need to prove Job to satan.
• We know by God's own Words that Job did not require testing.

​

Job is left to suffer out his tragedy unaware of what was going on behind the scenes. If fact there is not even any indication that God ever offered an explanation to Job the reason for his suffering. Was the whole tragedy without justification or needless? Obviously not. We (the onlookers) receive the enormous lesson of Job's temptation?.​

​

In having given us this account in the life of Job, we are able to see a side of God which otherwise might be difficult to receive.​

• God's wisdom and greater will are beyond us.
• We do not have the right to demand/expect of God His motivation or even to understand it.
• Expecting that He is just and reliable is mandatory.

In my thinking, there is no wrong done in Job's questioning his circumstances to God. However, Job might have thought he had a rightful expectation to know the ways and will of God.

What seemeth evil to us is, never the less, not outside of the will of God. Maybe better stated: 'Certain events, while displeasing/angering, are yet within His tolerance according to His wisdom, love, mercy and patience'. Or, to put it another way, according to His will.

I think that we too often try to put God in our box. In other words we make ourselves to be a god. We do this when we decide what is fair and just. I find myself asking of me, "Who's justice or who's fairness am I imposing in this situation?" and "Who am I to judge God?"

 

[eddif]

TV g

So in the account, 4 friends came to comfort him.

I think you will find only three friends mentioned.

Are you sure Elihu was a friend?

eddif

 

[Edward]

Could be although there are details given of God sending calamity in no uncertain terms. But yes, many don’t like certain verses, this among them.

I noticed that God seems to use the weather an awful lot. I think He uses calamity like this to shake people up and get them thinking about God.

You gotta admit, it's very effective. A small tsunami can ruin your whole day in a hurry. Turning their hearts to God. There are no atheists in foxholes!

But it's not God's fault. He doesn't cause it to happen, but He allows it to happen and since He has total control He is able to....hmmm, send in a son and let's test His faith..

How many Fathers don't give their sons difficult tasks at times so they can learn to be capable and stand on their own two feet? Grow stronger. Grow wiser. Well, welcome to the newest difficult task...

 

[journeymanisnothing]

You made a leap here that isn't written. The scripture stops at he did not sin or charge God with wrongdoing, the because part isn't there. Verses 6-12 clearly show God give permission for Job's life to be screwed with.

Isaiah 45:7 is probably the most "la-la-la!! I've got my fingers in my ears and can't hear you" verse for believers.

Hello Northman.
God gave permission for his own life to be screwed with. You understand how our dear gentle God allowed himself to be disagreed with, lied about,slapped, spit on, beaten mercilessly, humiliated and crucified. And you understand why, yes?

 

[eddif]

So Job is a type and shadow of the behavior Jesus will show in the future.

Much like Joseph of Egypt .
Special garment
One delivered one died
Saved mankind from starving

eddif

 

[eddif]

He was known for comforting others in distress giving advise and support (Job 4:3,4 and Job 31)

Chapters 4&5 are spoken by Eliphaz. The friends did not speak what was right like Job did. You can not trust anything the friends say. What they say sometimes sounds reasonable to the carnal mind, but God said they did not speak what was right.

I may have missed it (still looking), but have not found Job to discuss teaching / comforting. Good works? Yes.

It was at Pentecost that people were empowered to teach all things.

eddif