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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
JOHN MACARTHUR
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Johann!@#
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Nothing obscure to it.
It’s very plain and simple.
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
- he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death
To get a sinner, someone lost to repent and return to the Lord, will save their soul from eternal death; eternal damnation.
This is exactly what Jesus taught in the parable of the lost sheep.
A brother in Christ, one of His sheep, who wanders away and becomes lost has returned to being a sinner; someone who is separated from Christ, a person who is no longer justified, and therefore dead, spiritually dead.
This person must repent and return to the Lord or remain lost.
Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7
The ninety-nine remained just, while the one who became lost was no longer considered just.
The one who became lost, was now labeled as a sinner by Jesus, which refers to a person separated from Christ.
Lost = spiritually dead, no longer justified, sinner who is separated from Christ, in need of repentance.
For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; Hebrews 7:26
NewLifeInChrist
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Johann!@#
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Johann!@#
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Context, right?
The immediate context of James 5:19–20 focuses on addressing the Christian community ("Brethren... anyone among you"). The phrase "ἐν ὑμῖν" (among you) explicitly indicates that the warning is directed at believers who are part of the faith community. James is not addressing those who were never saved, but rather those who, being part of the community, wander (πλανηθῇ) from the truth.
Greek Verbal Nuances
The verb πλανηθῇ (planēthē) is in the aorist passive subjunctive, which emphasizes a completed action where one is led astray. This grammatical construction, combined with the context, strongly implies that the person had once been correctly aligned with the truth.
Similarly, ἐπιστρέψῃ (epistrepsē), in the aorist active subjunctive, indicates a turning back or returning. This verb is frequently used in the New Testament to describe restoration to a prior state (e.g., Luke 22:32, where Jesus tells Peter to "strengthen your brothers" after turning back).
Contrasting with Never-Saved Individuals
In contrast, passages describing those who never knew God use verbs like ἀγνοέω (agnoeō), meaning "to be ignorant" or "to not know" (e.g., Romans 10:3). The verb ἀπόλλυμι (apollymi), often translated as "to be lost" or "to perish," is used differently when applied to the unregenerate (e.g., 2 Corinthians 4:3–4, where the gospel is veiled to those who are perishing).
James uses πλανηθῇ to convey a straying from the truth, not a state of never having known it. Thus, while both the wanderer and the unregenerate may be described as "lost" in a general sense, the specific Greek terminology clarifies that the former was once aligned with the truth and has since deviated, while the latter never had an established relationship with it.
Broader Biblical Context
This distinction is consistent throughout Scripture, where believers who fall into sin are seen as needing restoration (e.g., Galatians 6:1), while the unregenerate are characterized as needing initial repentance and salvation (e.g., Acts 17:30).
Therefore, contextually and grammatically, the passage in James does not equate the wandering believer with someone who was never saved.
The language of restoration used here directly opposes the idea that the spiritually lost in this passage are the same as those who never knew God.
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Jas 5:19 My μου, brothers, Ἀδελφοί if ἐάν anyone τις among ἐν you ὑμῖν might wander πλανηθῇ from ἀπὸ the τῆς truth, ἀληθείας and καὶ someone τις should bring him back ἐπιστρέψῃ . . . , αὐτόν,
Jas 5:20 let him know γινωσκέτω* that ὅτι the [one] ὁ having brought back ἐπιστρέψας a sinner ἁμαρτωλὸν from ἐκ [the] error πλάνης of his αὐτοῦ way ὁδοῦ will save σώσει his αὐτοῦ soul ψυχὴν from ἐκ death, θανάτου and καὶ will cover over καλύψει a multitude πλῆθος of sins. ἁμαρτιῶν.
Brother, it’s challenging to communicate with you because, half the time, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with your selection of verse quotations.
Shalom.
J.
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Can you lose something that was never yours to begin with?
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Yes. James is talking about Christian's, a brother in Christ.
The point I’m making is the point James is making.
A brother in Christ who wanders away from the truth, is referred to as a sinner.
Someone who must return to the Lord in repentance so his soul will be saved from death.
Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20
- he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death
Johann!@#
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NewLifeInChrist
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This will be the third time I have said this. We were God's before Adam and Eve sinned. Now we are lost. Jesus came to save us. It's just that simple.
But, as others have said, "lost" does not only refer to someone having lost something else. It also refers to losing one's way. There may be other semantic domains for the word.
I vaguely remember years ago hearing some objection to using lost to describe people who are not saved. But I could be misremembering. Either way, I do not understand the objection. Even if the Bible never uses it the way we use it today (and I am certain that it does), it still is a completely acceptable way to describe those who are not saved. So there is no reason to make this a hill to die on.
It's like saying we can't call the car an Accord because of the Bible verse that says "they were all in one accord".
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So your answer is yes or no?
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I’m not objecting. I understand what you mean.
At this point I’m only asking a question.
I’m wanting to establish a common biblical meaning so we can better discuss what Jesus taught.
NewLifeInChrist
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This is silly, but OK. The answer is Yes. You can lose something even if it never belonged to you.
But in our case, we did belong to God before sin came into the world. Then we became children of the devil. God sent His Son to save us who were lost to sin. This is the 5th time I have said the same thing, and you're still asking me the same thing.
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So you agree then a child of God can return to being a child of devil in which we are lost.
NewLifeInChrist
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Johann!@#
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No.
John 1:12-13:
"To all who received Him, who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."
ἔδωκεν (edōken) - Aorist active indicative of δίδωμι (didōmi), meaning "He gave" or "He granted." The aorist tense here signifies a completed action--God granting sonship to believers.
γεννηθέντες (gennēthentes) - Aorist passive participle of γεννάω (gennaō), meaning "having been born." This indicates that the new birth is an act performed by God, not by human effort.
The emphasis here is on a completed transformation--those who are born of God become His children, implying a fundamental change in spiritual identity.
1 John 3:9-10:
"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil..."
γεγεννημένος (gegennēmenos) - Perfect passive participle of γεννάω (gennaō), meaning "having been born" or "begotten." The perfect tense indicates a completed action with ongoing results-being born of God is not a temporary state but a permanent identity.
ἁμαρτάνειν (hamartanein) - Present infinitive of ἁμαρτάνω (hamartanō), meaning "to sin." The present tense here indicates a continuous, habitual action rather than an occasional lapse.
The distinction between children of God and children of the devil lies in their ongoing conduct and spiritual lineage. Those who are truly born of God cannot persist in habitual sin because God’s seed (σπέρμα - sperma) abides in them.
The Johannine epistles emphasize a clear dichotomy between the children of God and the children of the devil, rooted in spiritual rebirth and ongoing moral transformation. The perfect tense used in 1 John 3:9 emphasizes that once someone is born of God, this identity endures.
Moreover, the phrase "God’s seed abides" (σπέρμα αὐτοῦ μένει - sperma autou menei) emphasizes permanence. The verb μένει (menei), present active indicative of μένω (menō), means "remains" or "abides," indicating a continuous state.
The text does not suggest that a true child of God can lose this status and become a child of the devil. Instead, it delineates between those who were never truly regenerated (even if they appeared religious) and those who are genuinely born of God.
A true child of God, having been reborn by God’s will and possessing God’s abiding seed, cannot revert to being a child of the devil. The permanent nature of the new birth, as conveyed by the perfect and present tense verbs, affirms that spiritual transformation in Christ is irrevocable.
I can provide many more examples from Scripture, particularly from the Pauline epistles...in short, I disagree with your proposal.
Johann.
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