Joyce Meyer

[Brother Mike]

jasoncran

don't think that you wont suffer now for him and be blessed later. if you choose the right path you will encounter the enemy.

I can't say why someone was born without a limb, blind, or crippled. I am not the Lord. I do know that Faith in Parents for the child should start before child birth and both Parents should serve God or else the Children are in Jeopardy. I have never heard the Lord say no to anyone ask for healing. Jesus never turned anyone away, not one single time and the Lord has never changed. I know a person can get self deceived if having to stand to long on something and settle for less. I won't settle for less, and if I have a faith Hang up, God hears about so I can get corrected, which has happened more than once. It's never God's fault, but something we need to learn.

A man I know wrote a book about God not healing. He got in some Word of Faith camp and told he just had to confess and bla, bla, bla. He jumped through all the hoops he was told to do and no healing. So He writes a book it's not always God's will to heal. I don't think it's his fault after describing what He was taught. he said the Lord told him He is happy with just the way he is, crippled. I don't believe that the Lord actually said that to him.

Even my own son when I got the call that he would not live through the night at best morning. Something came up to me and said, "You have misunderstood the Word of God, it's according to My will and you have told people wrong."

That is what I heard very loud and clear. Not like the Holy Spirit inside but like someone talking to me. An angel? I said right away though. Devil, I am not moved by reports, my son will live and not die. If you don't like that its not my Word but the Lords. Go bug Jesus about it and leave me alone. Then it said, "Faith boy, you have believed wrong, and all you believe about God is wrong." It then left.

I did not side with what I heard, by faith the elders obtained a good report. So what the Doctors in Chicago memorial Hospital for Children said my son would not live through the night at best be dead in the morning. So what something shows up to tell me it's only by Gods will my son Live. I have a more sure word of prophecy and the Word said with long life I will satisfy Him. I won't be moved by angel, or report but by what I believe and I believe that by His stripes we are the healed. I did not budge, did not cry out to God. I just said thank you Father for your Word never fails.

The Next Morning I get that call from Chicago, it was the wife explaining to me that my son has to be tested all day because they can't find the cancer, it's gone.

So Jason, I understand the background your coming from, We do face the enemy on the Path of God at times. However so does the World who have no hope when they do so.

Mike.

 

[Deborah13]

so god cant use him to win souls?

I'm sure He can Jason, he is a very brave man.

 

[Brother Mike]

Edward

Mike, you're just full of good testimonies, aren't you?

I would have rather not have to had those testimonies. I mean I am thankful and praise God for them all the time as part of experience, patience, and hope. Going through it though and everything on the Line you thought you believed is a whole other story. I just speak the Word only, there is nothing else that faith, or anything on your behalf you can do. If God helped me because I did not let go the Word, then the same help and much, much greater will God give glory to himself for those that just believe what He said and refuse to be moved.

If anything, I hope someone at the end of their faith will hear and stay focused on the Word and don't let go that much longer. The enemy can only bring so much pressure and physical proof that God did not mean what he said before the enemy has to flee and let go. I know that, and have learned to keep root and not get offended or give up.

For the testimonies, if you would have asked me at those times, I would not have rather had to go through them.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

I have that man I mentioned knows and works with joyce meyer. I believe that he does.so if a shark bites and takes off your leg then you just have to live with that stump? if god heals all wounds then why not limbs?

I am not saying that god doesn't do things for us but to think that in America and coming soon, we wont die or be jailed for our faith is well being blind to where we are headed

 

[jasoncran]

I take that from the statement of meyer where she says this is America. but in reality if the church lived the life called and went into the ghettos and took out the whores and drug pushers and told them this neighborhood doesn't want you, either repent or leave. you might think that some blood would be shed, the Christians being the first to die.

every day and while I have typed here in my house there is a drug dealer and his gf that is likely selling her body.the cops know, he has been arrested.all I can do is pray but I have been in some areas where that is gone down and the minister starting preaching that user and dealer and john and pimp fled.

 

[jasoncran]

unless she has changed what mike has posted is what my church teaches.

yet my pastor warns against meyer, Copeland and others like that.

 

[turnorburn]

I feel as jasoncran does.. too many people are making statements about God that aren't biblical. How do they say it, oh you know Spock used to say it on Star Trek "live long and prosper" something like that.:help

tob

 

[evenifigoalone]

Not entirely sure what to think, but not totally against. My mom likes her, says God sometimes speaks to her through her sermons.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jason:

I have that man I mentioned knows and works with joyce meyer. I believe that he does.so if a shark bites and takes off your leg then you just have to live with that stump? if god heals all wounds then why not limbs?

wow, not touching this one. Smith Wigglesworth has a few accounts. According to your faith, it's done as you believe. God does not heal lost limbs.
Seriously though, it's not that God does not Heal lost limbs. The real question is why are we not seeing it more regularly? It's us not God.

Jerry Savelle Grand daughter got two of her fingers cut off at the knuckle while brother Copeland was preaching in the nursery. Jerry interrupted the service to hand his crying grand daughter to Brother Copeland who prayed and got her to fall asleep. Jerry grabbed the two cut off fingers, put them in ice and rushed her to the hospital. There we nothing they could do to attach the fingers back. They took some skin and grafted over both knuckles then wrapped the hand.

There is where Covenant comes in, we are the seed of Abraham and blessed with Abraham. Jerry just stood on the Word and said He accepts nothing but fully restored fingers. Terry's fingers grew back or however God did it. Both were there with new nails starting to grow in. She is preaching today and has the testimony.

yet my pastor warns against meyer, Copeland and others like that.

I don't put my mouth on anyone. Judgment stops the power of God. We never judge or put our mouth on any of the Lords servants, it's a fast way to cutting the anointing in your own life. If any be false, then God corrects or removes them. God looks at the heart, not that anyone's doctrine is perfect. If God judged on perfect doctrine, ain't nobody gonna be preaching anything.

Jason your something else Brother. What if a safe fell out of the sky and smashed your foot. What if your elevator cable broke and you fell 10 stories. What if a shark grew legs and chomped your arms off while you were sleeping. What if there is no more air to breath when we wake up tomorrow, all used up? If any of these happened you had to be not listening to the Holy Spirit to avoid it, or God must have been asleep while that shark had your arms for lunch.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

so God doesn't call us not to risk our lives to save men and women from danger?

ah yes the old well its about faith? really, that's lame. ever prophecied to a the church that a member might die next week and it come to pass and it was a boy who gave his life and 4 days later he is dead.? my pastor did that.

btw I am called to be in the above situation as I have been to country. I have been shot at., does it work like that? move my head left and a bullet passes. No, sir I have been told by the holy spirit of danger but not all the time.Most of the time its just common sense.pray and leave it to god.Does the holy ghost teach at the mp school AND at the police academy?

I MENTION THAT as I know a family personally who lost two sons and have faith. two siblings drowned, God said had you not prayed for them I would have taken both. the son died the daughter was told she would be a vegetable and today she isn't. the parents anointed her and believed for a healing.both kids weren't even 5. that is the type of the iceberg of the trails of the faith they have endured.

 

[jasoncran]

yet my pastor warns against meyer, Copeland and others like that.

So you didn't really make the determination on your own? Took his word for it? I'm not saying he's wrong, or that you shouldn't listen to your Pastor, but I do think that one when he hears such things, should do their homework with that in mind, and make the determination for themselves. People can be wrong at times, or have biases and accidently say the wrong things. Even false prophets come out with a little truth at times, and even good pastors can be wrong about somethings at times. And even if someone has one particular thing wrong, they shouldn't be condemned for it and the rest of what they say denounced.

I listened to her for years. does your pastor do miracles? yes or no. has he warned of things and they come to pass? mine has. men and women have been healed in my church.he is preaching and the church is fasting for 40 days to get a hold of the God for a revival and he has taught much about faith.

 

[Mitspa]

Jason:

I have that man I mentioned knows and works with joyce meyer. I believe that he does.so if a shark bites and takes off your leg then you just have to live with that stump? if god heals all wounds then why not limbs?

wow, not touching this one. Smith Wigglesworth has a few accounts. According to your faith, it's done as you believe. God does not heal lost limbs.
Seriously though, it's not that God does not Heal lost limbs. The real question is why are we not seeing it more regularly? It's us not God.

Jerry Savelle Grand daughter got two of her fingers cut off at the knuckle while brother Copeland was preaching in the nursery. Jerry interrupted the service to hand his crying grand daughter to Brother Copeland who prayed and got her to fall asleep. Jerry grabbed the two cut off fingers, put them in ice and rushed her to the hospital. There we nothing they could do to attach the fingers back. They took some skin and grafted over both knuckles then wrapped the hand.

There is where Covenant comes in, we are the seed of Abraham and blessed with Abraham. Jerry just stood on the Word and said He accepts nothing but fully restored fingers. Terry's fingers grew back or however God did it. Both were there with new nails starting to grow in. She is preaching today and has the testimony.

yet my pastor warns against meyer, Copeland and others like that.

I don't put my mouth on anyone. Judgment stops the power of God. We never judge or put our mouth on any of the Lords servants, it's a fast way to cutting the anointing in your own life. If any be false, then God corrects or removes them. God looks at the heart, not that anyone's doctrine is perfect. If God judged on perfect doctrine, ain't nobody gonna be preaching anything.

Jason your something else Brother. What if a safe fell out of the sky and smashed your foot. What if your elevator cable broke and you fell 10 stories. What if a shark grew legs and chomped your arms off while you were sleeping. What if there is no more air to breath when we wake up tomorrow, all used up? If any of these happened you had to be not listening to the Holy Spirit to avoid it, or God must have been asleep while that shark had your arms for lunch.

Mike.

Hey brother Mike, I am an ole WOF man myself. It is the greedy that take the WOF and bring shame on the message of Hagin and Kenyon. I take that which is pure and true and reject the rest. I find no fault in Brother Copelands doctrine other than a few random issues that have little affect on the truth of the gospel. I reject outright and I judge those who in the WOF that have given themselves over to greed. We are called to expose these errors and to attempt to cover covetousness for sake of the WOF title is not godly behavior, nor is it biblical in any sense. Blessings

 

[Brother Mike]

Mitspa

Hey brother Mike, I am an ole WOF man myself. It is the greedy that take the WOF and bring shame on the message of Hagin and Kenyon. I take that which is pure and true and reject the rest. I find no fault in Brother Copelands doctrine other than a few random issues that have little affect on the truth of the gospel. I reject outright and I judge those who in the WOF that have given themselves over to greed. We are called to expose these errors and to attempt to cover covetousness for sake of the WOF title is not godly behavior, nor is it biblical in any sense. Blessings

Prosperity Doctrine:

Blessings Mitspa!!!

A few problems here Brother. The first problem is that way back a handful of believers saw in the Word that we are blessed with faithful Abraham. In fact each believer has a tremendous for Health, Wealth, Sound mind, and supernatural favor. It's a blessings that is our by grace through faith. We have to do nothing else but believe in and know that we are Abraham's seed and we are the blessed. I am still grasping it today, and many times when coming short I remind the Lord that I am Abraham's seed and I must be free. Just like the Women Jesus healed who must be made free who Satan had bound because she was Abraham's Seed and Jesus came to enforce what God had given His word on.

So................................ A group of believers saw that. The Lord started to reveal these things to many and as you can imagine it was more exciting than God wants you sick and broke to build character. Then there was understanding that you have what you say. What you determine with your mouth is where your heart is at and your mouth will determine the outcome of tragic situations. It will like a rudder of a ship steer the whole course of your life. So the grabbed that to fight this defeated doctrine that was prevalent all over the place.
Now we have a mix of naming and claiming money, health, wealth, favor and whatever. This is what your suppose to say and claim. Your also suppose to sow because the seed is multiplied.

We have 3 things going now.

1) people only have half the information, but on the right Track. God is trying to get His people in a position where they are able to get the Word out.
2) You have people who believe in God but are still carnal and have their mind on the money. So they use this half information in hopes God makes them rich.

Even Brother Copeland has said He has been corrected through the years, so on track but not 100% correct as the Lord works in him, more and more.
I know for a fact Brother Hagin has been corrected more than once, and many things concerning faith.

My hope is all Pastors don't step on the platform for the first time knowing everything they possible can know. I would feel sorry for them if they did.

So, what is taught now, is not exactly how you would have heard it in the 80's or 90's. It's still the same but with far more understanding and maturity. My Church is Brother Keith Moore's. Faith Life Church in Branson. Copeland's Grand daughter Goes here and we See Brother Copeland and Gloria once in a while who just show up to sit in service or preach once a year for Branson Victory Campaign.

Brother Keith who severed directly under Brother Hagin for over 20 years does not teach a name it and claim it prosperity. The Kingdom of God's things first, God first, then the rest is added. So no point in confessing I have a Lamborghini, as your focus best be doing the Will of God. If someone really puts God first in their life, and stops speaking poverty, or it cost to much or we can never afford that then obedience, faith and patience bring great results. We don't want our things, we want only What God wants in our life.

Brother Keith had some very nice and expensive sport cars working for Brother Hagin and gave for his seed to be multiplied but He was still broke. He could not figure out why these prosperity principles were not working. So he threw him self on the bed and cried out to God. The Lord spoke and said, "Son, I am not opposed to you having nice cars, but those cars can't be first." The Lord then brought up Amos to him and Matt about God's things first. Brother Keith was putting all his money into those cars, then tithing or giving what was left. It caused him to run short. He realized He could not keep the cars and put God first. Those cars were taking all his time and money. So he got rid of the cars.

Every thought and plan should be doing the will of God. Some believers have a personal life and a God life but it better all be the will of God in everything you do or put your hands to.

You will be surprised if you cultivate a life of God first with money, time, and your faith grows, what God will bring into your hands. My son who serves faithfully at church every service on the parking lot team showed up to church and there was a truck waiting for him. His first vehicle, He was believing God for. That is how it works, God first.

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

It's After you do the Will of God, putting God first, then with patience what God promised in His word will come. My son believed God for 3 years for a vehicle. No putting God first, no patience, no promises.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

I take that which is pure and true and reject the rest. I find no fault in Brother Copelands doctrine other than a few random issues that have little affect on the truth of the gospel.

That's what I do too, without judging them. I figure no one has it all right, and everyone is growing and learning. I don't think I've ever heard Joyce meyer come out with anything that I found to be false. Not that I can tell anyway.

(jason)

ah yes the old well its about faith? really, that's lame.

What in the world is a comment like that for jason? Do you not have have faith or just being snarky or what? I'd be ashamed to write something like that sir.

(jason)

I listened to her for years. does your pastor do miracles? yes or no. has he warned of things and they come to pass? mine has. men and women have been healed in my church.he is preaching and the church is fasting for 40 days to get a hold of the God for a revival and he has taught much about faith.

I haven't been at my present church long enough to know if he has done any miracles. Actually I don't think he's ever done a miracle when I think about it. I do not know if God has done any miracles through him...maybe that's what you mean? ;)

Besides jason, you seem to imply that if God's done a miracle through him that he couldn't be in infallible? Isn't that kind of far reaching? That's sort of short sighted don't you think. The anti-christ is promised to do great signs and wonders too. If he does one in front of you, will you then bow down and worship him?

sir, we don't agree with end times. I amil, he is pre trib and he is off on the torah at times.i have been a pentacostal for years and he confirmed what I already heard and knew.

I said lame because of this man who does lay hands and and healed and believes.

http://www.gfa.org/kpyohannan/

I used to listen to him. he is a missionary and while he does live in the us. he has sent men to die for the gospel and that knowingly. what he describes is real and others that do work there also say the same. Indians aren't like the us they do have faith and want to soak the gospel. they have nothing to loose as often they are so held in bondage.so why on earth isn't he saying that?

i have seen and know that the pastor of mine is legit. do i need to go to meyer to get healed? why not the church i attend that does the works that is mentioned? sure we aren't fully there yet but its a doctrinal position. he teaches what the church should have been doing. he also is honest. the bible says go to the elders of the church, not some tv evangelist

i don't like Copeland because he erred on Abraham and god making a deal with him. god to him was so weak that he had to use abram because of the fall. i heard that and also did believe that. later on i corrected myself. Copeland hasn't.

 

[Brother Mike]

jasoncran

i don't like Copeland because he erred on Abraham and god making a deal with him. god to him was so weak that he had to use abram because of the fall. i heard that and also did believe that. later on i corrected myself. Copeland hasn't.

So God saying you have not withed your son from me, was just God yakking for the Heck of it, though we are blessed with the man that did not withhold his son from us in Christ? You see absolutely no connection I suppose. Copeland never mentioned God was weak, so that would be Slander which is surprising coming from you to lie on a man of God without conscience.

Also God must not need any of us. If God needs us you think God is weak and see no Spiritual legal system at all. God found Abraham a man that would believe him but heck, God don't even need man.

I am curious to what type of Pentecostal belief this is. I know about the ones that preach with Rattlesnakes, I know about the Apostolic ones, the Assemblies of God, the Christ ones in PA where they don't take their kids to the doctor. I never heard about the ones that believe like you though. What is the name of it?

Mike.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa

Hey brother Mike, I am an ole WOF man myself. It is the greedy that take the WOF and bring shame on the message of Hagin and Kenyon. I take that which is pure and true and reject the rest. I find no fault in Brother Copelands doctrine other than a few random issues that have little affect on the truth of the gospel. I reject outright and I judge those who in the WOF that have given themselves over to greed. We are called to expose these errors and to attempt to cover covetousness for sake of the WOF title is not godly behavior, nor is it biblical in any sense. Blessings

Prosperity Doctrine:

Blessings Mitspa!!!

A few problems here Brother. The first problem is that way back a handful of believers saw in the Word that we are blessed with faithful Abraham. In fact each believer has a tremendous for Health, Wealth, Sound mind, and supernatural favor. It's a blessings that is our by grace through faith. We have to do nothing else but believe in and know that we are Abraham's seed and we are the blessed. I am still grasping it today, and many times when coming short I remind the Lord that I am Abraham's seed and I must be free. Just like the Women Jesus healed who must be made free who Satan had bound because she was Abraham's Seed and Jesus came to enforce what God had given His word on.

So................................ A group of believers saw that. The Lord started to reveal these things to many and as you can imagine it was more exciting than God wants you sick and broke to build character. Then there was understanding that you have what you say. What you determine with your mouth is where your heart is at and your mouth will determine the outcome of tragic situations. It will like a rudder of a ship steer the whole course of your life. So the grabbed that to fight this defeated doctrine that was prevalent all over the place.
Now we have a mix of naming and claiming money, health, wealth, favor and whatever. This is what your suppose to say and claim. Your also suppose to sow because the seed is multiplied.

We have 3 things going now.

1) people only have half the information, but on the right Track. God is trying to get His people in a position where they are able to get the Word out.
2) You have people who believe in God but are still carnal and have their mind on the money. So they use this half information in hopes God makes them rich.

Even Brother Copeland has said He has been corrected through the years, so on track but not 100% correct as the Lord works in him, more and more.
I know for a fact Brother Hagin has been corrected more than once, and many things concerning faith.

My hope is all Pastors don't step on the platform for the first time knowing everything they possible can know. I would feel sorry for them if they did.

So, what is taught now, is not exactly how you would have heard it in the 80's or 90's. It's still the same but with far more understanding and maturity. My Church is Brother Keith Moore's. Faith Life Church in Branson. Copeland's Grand daughter Goes here and we See Brother Copeland and Gloria once in a while who just show up to sit in service or preach once a year for Branson Victory Campaign.

Brother Keith who severed directly under Brother Hagin for over 20 years does not teach a name it and claim it prosperity. The Kingdom of God's things first, God first, then the rest is added. So no point in confessing I have a Lamborghini, as your focus best be doing the Will of God. If someone really puts God first in their life, and stops speaking poverty, or it cost to much or we can never afford that then obedience, faith and patience bring great results. We don't want our things, we want only What God wants in our life.

Brother Keith had some very nice and expensive sport cars working for Brother Hagin and gave for his seed to be multiplied but He was still broke. He could not figure out why these prosperity principles were not working. So he threw him self on the bed and cried out to God. The Lord spoke and said, "Son, I am not opposed to you having nice cars, but those cars can't be first." The Lord then brought up Amos to him and Matt about God's things first. Brother Keith was putting all his money into those cars, then tithing or giving what was left. It caused him to run short. He realized He could not keep the cars and put God first. Those cars were taking all his time and money. So he got rid of the cars.

Every thought and plan should be doing the will of God. Some believers have a personal life and a God life but it better all be the will of God in everything you do or put your hands to.

You will be surprised if you cultivate a life of God first with money, time, and your faith grows, what God will bring into your hands. My son who serves faithfully at church every service on the parking lot team showed up to church and there was a truck waiting for him. His first vehicle, He was believing God for. That is how it works, God first.

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

It's After you do the Will of God, putting God first, then with patience what God promised in His word will come. My son believed God for 3 years for a vehicle. No putting God first, no patience, no promises.

Mike.

When I seen Branson, I figured you had an relationship with Keith Moore, I have watched some of his progams and got alot from his teachings. Blessings and check out the word of Grace that has its roots and foundation in the Word of Faith. I would say this, that the WOF is based upon the righteousness of faith, legalism has spilled into the doctrines from some of the more traditional denoms, bringing back bondage to works and choking off the faith of many. Blessings - Mitspa

 

[Mitspa]

I take that which is pure and true and reject the rest. I find no fault in Brother Copelands doctrine other than a few random issues that have little affect on the truth of the gospel.

That's what I do too, without judging them. I figure no one has it all right, and everyone is growing and learning. I don't think I've ever heard Joyce meyer come out with anything that I found to be false. Not that I can tell anyway.

(jason)

ah yes the old well its about faith? really, that's lame.

What in the world is a comment like that for jason? Do you not have have faith or just being snarky or what? I'd be ashamed to write something like that sir.

(jason)

I listened to her for years. does your pastor do miracles? yes or no. has he warned of things and they come to pass? mine has. men and women have been healed in my church.he is preaching and the church is fasting for 40 days to get a hold of the God for a revival and he has taught much about faith.

I haven't been at my present church long enough to know if he has done any miracles. Actually I don't think he's ever done a miracle when I think about it. I do not know if God has done any miracles through him...maybe that's what you mean? ;)

Besides jason, you seem to imply that if God's done a miracle through him that he couldn't be in infallible? Isn't that kind of far reaching? That's sort of short sighted don't you think. The anti-christ is promised to do great signs and wonders too. If he does one in front of you, will you then bow down and worship him?

As usual Edward, you and I can see the same truth in the things of God. Blessings Brother glad to see your honesty and kindness have earned you a position as a mod on the forum, I hope we can still be friends? Blessings brother

 

[Brother Mike]

Edward and Mitspa. Just reading over my post and things I think it best we don't pick to much on Jason. I mean I have been the black WOF Sheep on many forums and the wolves were everywhere with not one other black sheep to Bahhhh with me.

Jason publicly Said brother Copeland thinks God must be weak. Then said Copeland did not repent or recant His error (Assuming there was an error) Word of faith stuff aside. Let's say Copeland was wrong, or any of us Wrong. Would I want people to publicly make me look stupid for being wrong? OR. Would I want them to pray for me instead and believe that God will be able to help me and correct me?

What harvest do I want? To be made to look dumb and in error, or support in prayer? You reap what you sow, God is not mocked. So I am more concerned with Jasons spiritual walk and wellbeing than I am with what He believes.

Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Introduction: So What's The Big Deal?[/FONT]
Kenneth and Gloria Copeland teach some wonderful things: We must have confidence in God's Word and obey it; we must resist the Devil; we should praise God, and boldly pray, and have faith; we should serve God and love others and give sacrificially. But the Copeland's also have some dangerous teachings that are not only unbiblical, but unhealthy and even harmful.

I have no desire to slander a well-meaning ministry. But I believe the Copeland's teaching is very flawed--so flawed that, if followed wholeheartedly, it can only lead to disappointment, frustration and disillusionment...or worse. That bothers me. The Bible is very clear that false teachings are harmful and should be exposed (in humility and love). But don't take my word for it; turn to the Scriptures. I will quote a lot of Scripture in this article. Please click on the links so you can test what I am saying. God's Word is more powerful than any words I can come up with.

The Copeland's are leaders in what is commonly referred to as the Word of Faith Movement or the “Prosperity Gospel”, which (falsely) teaches that God's will for believers is always prosperity, health, and victory—no matter what. When hard times hit (and they eventually do), what are we to make of them? Could it be that God has some sovereign reason for suffering, or that He uses it to teach us or to help us grow? Copeland says no! In Word Faith theology failure, sickness, and hardship are always attacks from Satan and are never God's will.

Copeland is wrong. The Bible clearly tells us that sometimes it is actually God's will that we suffer (1 Peter 3:17; 4:19; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 12:7;&version=31;Hebrew 12:7).

Here are twelve reasons why I believe this teaching is very harmful, followed by a critique of three false promises of Copeland’s prosperity gospel:



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What’s Wrong with the Prosperity Gospel?
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1. Materialism keeps people out of heaven.[/FONT]The Copeland’s tout the Gospel as a way to live "the good life” and claim wealth is a sign of spiritual maturity. Such a message appeals only to our sinful, selfish nature. True Christians are not to love the world or anything in the world (1 John 2:15). Jesus repeatedly warned that wealth can be dangerous to our souls (Luke 8:14; 12:15) and even keep us out of heaven (Matthew 19:21-24; Ephesians 5:5http://www.cedricstudio.com/personal/matthew 19:21-24). Rather than indulging ourselves with material "blessings", the true Christian message is to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Christ, for “you cannot serve both God and money” (Matthew 6:24).

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2. Lack of true peace.[/FONT]
Word of Faith preachers teach that God is just waiting to bless us. So if the believer isn't experiencing “victory”, the problem must somehow be with the believer. This false teaching causes the believer to constantly strive harder, sacrifice harder, confess harder, and believe harder in order to achieve some mystical level of pure, unpolluted faith. The believer has no true peace until this “victory” is achieved.
In reality the Bible does NOT promise constant prosperity and victory (see below, False Promise #3: Victory and Success for Believers). Sometimes it is actually God's will that we suffer (1 Peter 3:17; 4:19; http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews 12:7;&version=31;Hebrew 12:7). The apostle Paul was able to proudly rejoice in his sufferings (2 Corinthians 12:8-10)! The mark of the true Christian is not freedom from suffering but peace in the midst of suffering (2 Thess. 3:16; Phil. 4:6-7; John 14:27; 16:33; Romans 8:6; 15:13; Heb. 12:11).
Despite what the Copeland's say, pain and hardship need not shake our faith or rob us of our peace!
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3. Unnecessary guilt and worry. [/FONT]
Copeland’s teaching makes God's blessing conditional on our ability to strive and perform. On their website Gloria Copeland writes: "So our protection depends on our walking in fellowship with God and obedience to His Word."6 and "Your security will be determined by how much time and attention you give to God and His Word in this life".7 This is not only unbiblical (our security is in Christ, not our efforts), it is the exact opposite of grace! The Copeland's also insist we must tame our tongues to secure God’s blessing,8 even though the Bible says that is impossible (James 3:8).
When suffering persists, Prosperity teaching actually creates doubt and worry (“What am I doing wrong?”; “When have I done enough?”) and destroys any real confidence in God’s sovereignty and mercy.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]4. Unnecessary fear.[/FONT]
Anything negative, especially doubt, will supposedly cancel out your faith and short-circuit God's blessing in your life. As a result, when hardships come the believer puts pressure on himself to do the impossible: to never have a negative thought. The result is bondage to a constant, superstitious fear of anything negative.
Actually, faith grows stronger if we ask questions and wrestle honestly with our doubts. The Bereans were commended for their healthy skepticism (Acts 17:11). We are to search for wisdom as for hidden treasure (Prov. 2:3-5) and test everything (1 Thess. 5:21).
Fear of anything negative shows how weak and fragile a person's faith really is, and keeps it from growing stronger.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]5. Emotional stress.[/FONT]
The Copeland’s teach that sadness, grief, anger, or frustration are signs of a lack of faith. According to Gloria Copeland, "If you are sad and depressed, that means you're not believing God”9 . As a result, believers may stuff their true feelings and/or live in denial of them. This can create a host of unhealthy emotional and relational problems.
God knows our hearts better than we do (Psalm 44:21; Romans 8:27). When we mourn He does not shame us--He comforts us (Matthew. 5:4). He is "The Father of compassion and the God of all comfort." (2 Cor. 1:3). He desires that we be open and honest with Him about our negative feelings (as David did in the Psalms) so that He can help us to deal with them and overcome them with His peace.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]6. Avoidance of serious problems.[/FONT]
Likewise, some people may avoid properly dealing with their problems. Simply accepting life’s difficulties supposedly shows a lack of faith. So when problems arise some feel they must prove their faith by patiently waiting for the "victory" they have been promised. An extreme example of this would be parents who let their children die rather than take them to the doctor, because they are claiming God's promises to heal and taking them to the doctor would show a sinful "lack of faith". How tragic!
When problems arise, we are to face them prayerfully with responsibility and wisdom, and then trust God to work all things out for His good (Romans 8:28).

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]7. A false view of God.[/FONT]
In Prosperity teaching, you must never pray "...if it be Your will". To consider the possibility of a "no" answer from God supposedly shows a lack of faith (even though both Jesus and Paul did so--Luke 22:42; Acts 18:21; also James 4:13-15). Apparently Copeland's God is a fickle being who is swayed into holding back blessing simply by praying one wrong phrase ("if it be Your will"). Copeland also allegedly believes God is not all-powerful: "God cannot do anything for you apart or separate from faith".10 Such a God is not the true God!

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8. Raising man and lowering God.[/FONT]
Copeland says believers have the same authority as God: "You have obtained an inheritance, and in that inheritance you have been given all authority."11 He also says our future is in our own hands: "With [God's] truth we can set our course...for a life full of success";12 “You are the prophet of your own life...Your words in your life decide your future”.13 Apparently it is ultimately up to us (not God) to decide what is good for us and what blessings we should have.
Copeland's God is also weakened by humans because he cannot truly bless us without our believing prayers and confession. So the real power is in our ability to "release the power of faith". We must have "faith in our faith"14.
The roles are reversed--in a sense we become the masters and God becomes the servant. Copeland allegedly wrote, “As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word”.15 This is a backward, man-centered theology and is outright blasphemy. God is the King, we are but humble servants (Luke 17:10). Copeland's emphasis is (wrongly) on our ability to drum up enough faith, when instead the emphasis should be on Christ to lead us, provide for us, and empower us to serve Him as He sees fit.




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QUOTE]here ya go.

and from Copeland's own words. you will have to forgive as I am one who once fell for this and in part albeit small found that it is a lie, so forgive the flesh moment.

http://www.cedricstudio.com/personal/copeland.html

 

[jasoncran]

one need not be concerned that you have cast doubts nor crushed me. I don't want wealth. why?because I know that I am greedy by nature and it would be a snare unto me.i live in a county where I see larger houses then some here may ever want to own nor have. I am blessed despite my whining about my new position, as I got a raise , I also get more money on paper route. yet I didn't ask for that. it just happened despite my relationship.

later I will take on the typical pentacostal position on physical blessing, and use the idea of shalom and what paul and john meant.