S
sydbarrettangel
Guest
So, what's everyone's take on Judas Iscariot? Does he get a bad rap, or is it deserved?
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xicali
Guest
Judas Iscariote
This is my take on this. Judas could have repented many times but he could not possibly be speard.
Prophecy:
"...Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me..." Psalm 41:9
"...And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD..." Zechariah 11:12-13
Prophecy Fulfilled:
"...Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver..." Matthew 26:14-16
And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him..." Matthew 26:47-50
History:
"...While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled..." John 17:12
The Narrative:
"...And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man! by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said..." Matthew 26:21-25
Does he get a bad rap? is it deserved?
He was destined for this purpose...
you're Blessed!
XICALI
This is my take on this. Judas could have repented many times but he could not possibly be speard.
Prophecy:
"...Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me..." Psalm 41:9
"...And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.
And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD..." Zechariah 11:12-13
Prophecy Fulfilled:
"...Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver..." Matthew 26:14-16
And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him..." Matthew 26:47-50
History:
"...While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled..." John 17:12
The Narrative:
"...And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man! by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said..." Matthew 26:21-25
Does he get a bad rap? is it deserved?
He was destined for this purpose...
you're Blessed!
XICALI
K
Khristeeanos
Guest
Re: Judas Iscariote
He was destined because God forsaw his actions.xicali said:
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xicali
Guest
Re: Judas Iscariot
Blessed Bonsi...
God fulfills Scriptural Prophecy when he destines the fate of His vessels of wrath, and not because he sees their actions.
“…What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory…†Romans 9:22-23
Judas was one of many prepared vessel for destruction, to fulfill Scriptural Prophecy. Why? "...in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy..."
You're Blessed
XICALI
Bonsai said:
Blessed Bonsi...
God fulfills Scriptural Prophecy when he destines the fate of His vessels of wrath, and not because he sees their actions.
“…What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory…†Romans 9:22-23
Judas was one of many prepared vessel for destruction, to fulfill Scriptural Prophecy. Why? "...in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy..."
You're Blessed
XICALI
Lewis
Member
Judas was predestined to carry out what he did. But nowhere in the Bible does it say he was supposed to die. For you see Judas could have been forgiven, but he confessed and repented to man rather than to God, of his evil. A murderer can be forgiven if he asks for forgiviness. Now sometimes you have to pay dire consequences for your sins, and sometimes God lets you live. Judas hung himself. Jesus or the Father did not order this.
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xicali
Guest
Judas Iscariot
“…Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus…†Luke 22:3
A person that is hosting satan can’t repent to God. Jesus offered a prayer for Peter on the same chapter:
"…Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Jesus did not offer a similar prayer for Judas. Luke 22:31
Previously Jesus had told Peter:
“…Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men…†Matthew 16:23-31
“…O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps…†Jeremiah 10:23
"...For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy..." Romans 9:15-16
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed [humans] say to him [God] that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter [God] power over the clay [humans], of the same lump [the womb] to make one vessel [a person] unto honour, and another [person] unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels [persons ]of WRATH fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels [PERSONS]of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
You’re blessed
XICALI
“…Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus…†Luke 22:3
A person that is hosting satan can’t repent to God. Jesus offered a prayer for Peter on the same chapter:
"…Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you, Simon that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen your brothers." Jesus did not offer a similar prayer for Judas. Luke 22:31
Previously Jesus had told Peter:
“…Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men…†Matthew 16:23-31
“…O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps…†Jeremiah 10:23
"...For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy..." Romans 9:15-16
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed [humans] say to him [God] that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter [God] power over the clay [humans], of the same lump [the womb] to make one vessel [a person] unto honour, and another [person] unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels [persons ]of WRATH fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels [PERSONS]of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
You’re blessed
XICALI
I
Imagican
Guest
Lewis W said:
Good point Lewis. We certainly have nothing that indicates that Judas repented to 'God'. And the simple fact that he hung himself would indicate that he couldn't 'then' be forgive. Hard to ask for forgiveness or show repentance when one is dead.
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sydbarrettangel
Guest
Imagican said:
Well, Judas very well could have repented and THEN hung himself. He tried to make it right by returning the silver - therefore attempting to force Caiaphas and Annas to give up their end of the deal as well. We don't know what happened in between this exchange with Caiaphas and Annas and Judas' hanging. He very well could have attempted to seek out Jesus himself to apologize, but due to what was happening he would have been frustrated in that attempt just as he was frustrated in his attempt to undo the deal via Caiaphas and friends.
I also read this very interesting take on Judas: http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew3/D3-JudasIscariot.html
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xicali
Guest
Good article sydbarrettangel
I wonder if Judas' name was included on the book of life too...
"...seventy-two returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!" And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." Luke 10:17
I ask myself if Judas saw that he was the only one with character, who could carry out what he did, by instructions of our Lord for he did call him Friend.
Blessed
XICALI
I wonder if Judas' name was included on the book of life too...
"...seventy-two returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!" And he said to them, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven." Luke 10:17
I ask myself if Judas saw that he was the only one with character, who could carry out what he did, by instructions of our Lord for he did call him Friend.
Blessed
XICALI
I
Imagican
Guest
sydbarrettangel, xicali,
An honest answer from both of you to this question:
Have the two of you seen 'The Passion'?
An honest answer from both of you to this question:
Have the two of you seen 'The Passion'?
S
sydbarrettangel
Guest
Imagican said:
Yes, I have. Three times actually ^_^
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xicali
Guest
Imagican said:
No I have not...hope to see it over the weekend. I'm in Mexico at this time and hope to get an English copy to watch it. In Spanish it's just not the same.
Blessed
xicali
I
Imagican
Guest
Well, Judas very well could have repented and THEN hung himself. He tried to make it right by returning the silver - therefore attempting to force Caiaphas and Annas to give up their end of the deal as well. We don't know what happened in between this exchange with Caiaphas and Annas and Judas' hanging. He very well could have attempted to seek out Jesus himself to apologize, but due to what was happening he would have been frustrated in that attempt just as he was frustrated in his attempt to undo the deal via Caiaphas and friends.
OK. The reason that I asked this question was what is offered above. It seems like it was a direct exerpt from the movie.
The problem is that 'The Passion' was nothing more than that; a movie. Much of what was offered had little to do with 'truth'. Especially much that pertained to Judas.
We have absolutely NO way of knowing ANYTHING other than what is written in the Word. And there we find NO indication that Judas' act was anything but EVIL.
The movie however makes him out to be some kind of 'good guy' that simply made a mistake. Far, far from the truth my friends. This man did something unthinkable. Peter denied Christ. That was not good. But Judas actually brought about Christs' persecution.
I'm quite sure that there is a special place being held for Judas, but not in heaven. If blasphemy of the Spirit is damnable heresy, then what Judas did must have been even worse.
OK. The reason that I asked this question was what is offered above. It seems like it was a direct exerpt from the movie.
The problem is that 'The Passion' was nothing more than that; a movie. Much of what was offered had little to do with 'truth'. Especially much that pertained to Judas.
We have absolutely NO way of knowing ANYTHING other than what is written in the Word. And there we find NO indication that Judas' act was anything but EVIL.
The movie however makes him out to be some kind of 'good guy' that simply made a mistake. Far, far from the truth my friends. This man did something unthinkable. Peter denied Christ. That was not good. But Judas actually brought about Christs' persecution.
I'm quite sure that there is a special place being held for Judas, but not in heaven. If blasphemy of the Spirit is damnable heresy, then what Judas did must have been even worse.
X
xicali
Guest
Imagican wrote the following quote...
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I'm [xicali] not defending Judas I just Respect Gods way of saving me...God destined him [Judas] to carry this out for our own benefit.
"...And it is I [God] who have created the destroyer to work havoc..."
http://www.biblegateway.net/passage/?search=Isaias 54:16;&version=31;
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
http://www.biblegateway.net/passage/?se ... ersion=31;
"...a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and dense overcast, like the dawn spreading over the mountains; a great and strong people [appears], such as never existed in ages past and never will again in all the generations to come.
http://www.biblegateway.net/passage/?search=joel 2:2;&version=77;
If Judas hadn't done what he did, a great and strong people [the church], would have never manifested [that's you and me].
U R Blessed
xicali
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I'm [xicali] not defending Judas I just Respect Gods way of saving me...God destined him [Judas] to carry this out for our own benefit.
"...And it is I [God] who have created the destroyer to work havoc..."
http://www.biblegateway.net/passage/?search=Isaias 54:16;&version=31;
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
http://www.biblegateway.net/passage/?se ... ersion=31;
"...a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and dense overcast, like the dawn spreading over the mountains; a great and strong people [appears], such as never existed in ages past and never will again in all the generations to come.
http://www.biblegateway.net/passage/?search=joel 2:2;&version=77;
If Judas hadn't done what he did, a great and strong people [the church], would have never manifested [that's you and me].
U R Blessed
xicali
I
Imagican
Guest
If Judas hadn't done what he did, a great and strong people [the church], would have never manifested [that's you and me].
This is true, just as God hardened Pharaohs heart. But even though God was the creator of us all, it is we who, exercising 'free will', choose to follow satan instead.
God knows the future as well as the past. Don't misunderstand the purpose of Judas. Christ himself proclaimed Judas 'a devil'. This should be a pretty good indication that Judas chose his own fate of death rather than life everlasting. It would seem a fair assumption that Judas denied Christ, thus, sealing his fate in life and history. He was 'of the devil'. He sold his salvation for a few pieces of silver.
Christs' death was NOT a 'righteous' event. It was necessary for our evil hearts to be cleansed, but only because of our sin was it brought into fruition. Suffering the sin's of the world could not have been a 'good' experience. We should certainly appreciate the death of Christ, but it certainly wasn't worthy of celebration. The act of His giving yes, the act of murdering Him, no. For it was really US that murdered Him when you think about it. For our sins He had to die.
This is true, just as God hardened Pharaohs heart. But even though God was the creator of us all, it is we who, exercising 'free will', choose to follow satan instead.
God knows the future as well as the past. Don't misunderstand the purpose of Judas. Christ himself proclaimed Judas 'a devil'. This should be a pretty good indication that Judas chose his own fate of death rather than life everlasting. It would seem a fair assumption that Judas denied Christ, thus, sealing his fate in life and history. He was 'of the devil'. He sold his salvation for a few pieces of silver.
Christs' death was NOT a 'righteous' event. It was necessary for our evil hearts to be cleansed, but only because of our sin was it brought into fruition. Suffering the sin's of the world could not have been a 'good' experience. We should certainly appreciate the death of Christ, but it certainly wasn't worthy of celebration. The act of His giving yes, the act of murdering Him, no. For it was really US that murdered Him when you think about it. For our sins He had to die.
G
Gendou Ikari
Guest
I'm in complete agreement with you. Look at it this way, if Judas never betrayed Jesus then we wouldn't have the Savior of All Men. It's a simple as that. And if you remember Satan had taken over Judas.
John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
So how does that fit into Christendom's whole "free will?"
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sydbarrettangel
Guest
Imagican said:
THE PASSION is sympathetic to Judas? ......No, it's not..... It treats Judas as most other portrayals treat him, with the exception of Jesus Christ Superstar and a couple novels.
And it's not like we know Judas' mindset. What if he thought he was doing what was best for Jesus in the end?
How is it blasphemy? Betrayal and blasphemy aren't the same thing. Judas never said that Caiaphas' claims against Jesus were correct, quite the opposite. "I have sinned in betraying innocent blood." ...
Lewis
Member
We have to go with the word of God, Judas did not repent to God and ask for forgiveness. God does not want anyone to perish in an evil state. Now I do know that Judas knew he was dead wrong for his deed. And I know that Jesus still loved him. Because the love of Jesus, surpasses all understanding.
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Gendou Ikari
Guest
Yes, God loved and still does love Judas. I'm probably going to get a warning for this but I have to say it. Judas is not burning in hell as we speak. Lewis W you show in your signature the Devil getting beaten back by the King James Version of 1611. Why? Did you know that the original contained many aporcraphal books?
J
Julian Pyke
Guest
Here is my opnion. Have we not all amde mistakes? Turned from God (Sinned?) Did jesus forgive him? DFid he forgive us?
You answer that
You answer that