Bible Study Judas

[Rick W]

HIYA Abiyah! How ya doing today? I'm doing fine myself!! Thanks for posting but could ya tame it down a bit?

THANKS!!!!

lol
:D :

 

[Gendou Ikari]

If I continue this anymore I will probably be banned so I have to stop. But try this link for Scriptural Proof of Universal Salvation:

http://bible-truths.com/hagee1.htm

Good Day :-D

 

[Imagican]

Gendou,

you are probably right, (about being banned). I would imagine that pasting a website that promotes this belief is probably enough to do it.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

I would like for you to read this scripture again yourself. Please note that nothing that I said is in refute of this statement. Jesus Christ IS the Savior of all MANKIND, and the personal savior of all who believe in this gift. But you don't really contend that Christ saves those from death who work against Him or turn others away from Him I hope.

From the perspective that you have offered, those that love and live for Christ are no better/no worse for wear than those that oppose His teachings. This is utterly ridiculous theology. I don't know where it comes from, but it most certainly doesn't come from God's Word.

If this is an example of UR that the mods warn us not to promote, I now see why. This is such heresy that I hope you will abandon it and seek God's forgiveness for following it and, here, trying to spread it to others.

 

[Imagican]

Abiyah,

What you offer 'sounds' good. But the fact is that Jesus Himself called Judas, 'a devil'.

Wasn't Judas the same one that christ had to chastise for complaining about the value of the oil that was poured upon His feet?

It seems to me that the little that we have been offered concerning the personality of Judas is such that it ought to be obvious to all that Judas was 'chosen' as an example of one who, even though has met Christ, chooses 'NOT' to 'live for' Christ.

And you have certainly offered a 'new' light in 'your' understanding of Judas and the events that transpired in this mans' death. From your perspective, everything written in the Word 'could' have a completely 'different' meaning than what is written. This is pretty scarry. If this is the case, then WHO could possibly be the 'ONE' to understand 'ANY' of it? The Bible plainly states that Judas 'hanged' himself. To substitute, 'choked himself with grief' makes absolutely NO sense to me. Maybe it's just because I don't understand, but if this is the case, it's NOT just me that doesn't understand, but 'almost' everyone else that has ever read this account. Glad you were here to point EVERYBODY in the right direction, since we all chose to understand this event literally.

If you guys can convince yourselves that you could betray Christ for a few pieces of silver and still receive the gift that He offered, more power to ya. I on the other hand would find it difficult to accept this open ended acceptance of belief. Too much other scripture that plainly states that; not only will there be those that refuse to accept Christ as their Savior, but there will also be those that reject even the concept of His purpose. Since His 'gift' was offered to those 'willing' to accept it, it is obvious that those that 'don't' will NOT receive it. Sorry guys. Nice try though and good luck.

May God Bless you

 

[Imagican]

Gendou Ikari,

I did as you asked my friend. I visited the website that you offered. Enticing words my friend. Have you ever heard the expression: "If it sounds too good to be true....................." Well, if I were you, I would apply this here in this case.

You know, Eve found the words of the serpent in the garden, "Too good to be true". While much of what the serpent offered was indeed 'truth' the parts that were not offered that shed the 'whole' truth was what caused the downfall of mankind.

Beware of Greeks offering gifts.

 

[Abiyah]

Judas ?

HIYA Abiyah! How ya doing today? I'm doing fine myself!! Thanks for posting but could ya tame it down a bit? THANKS!!!!

:D Hi there PotLuck... LOL ! So glad to hear you're doing real fine. Hey ! Yea, my font was quit large there wasn't it ? LOL ! Whoops.... I thought it would just be a bit bigger, and not so huge, in that I do apologize, for I was not shouting ...LOL ! And thank you for the warm greeting, I sure did appreciate that. And I'm doing real, real good myself thanks so much for asking.

And Good Morning to you Imagican,

Well... I am not sure what you are trying to say to me, are you saying that which was written in Acts chapter one is nule and void ? Fact is... it is written, Judas was cut from his adams apple to his navel, and all his insides gushed out. Harsh, is it not ? Do you think that I "play" with our Father's Word ? NEVER ! You must keep in mind that the King James was taken from both the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and THEN translated into the English tongue. Therefore, there are many words that you may not understand UNLESS you have a Hebrew and Greek dictionary/concordance to take many of those words BACK to their original meanings. Even the King James translater/writes wrote a letter in the original 1611, stating that they had made some errors in translation. EXAMPLE, the word easter, which appears only ONE TIME in the Bible was a mistranslation, the word in the Greek is Pasqa, which is Passover. For Christ became our Passover [ I Cor. 5:6-7] and not our Ishtar, which translated in the english tongue is easter . Hey, don't take my word for it, but rather, check it out for yourself. And "that" particular mistranlation goes far, far deeper then that. Okay... one more example, born again, as it is utilized in John 3:7, that word "again" is the Greek word anothen, and it means from above; "Ye must be born from above"; I mean where did we all come form, God said let "us" make man in our image, after "our" likeness, you were with God, I mean we all came from God, and He is above all. Listen, man is not perfect by anymeans, and one must "rightly divide" The Word [I Tim. 2:15]. And using a Hebrew/Greek Dictionary/Concordance does help a great deal.

Judas was 'chosen' as an example of one who, even though has met Christ, chooses 'NOT' to 'live for' Christ.

I think in a way you set yourself up as "judge" , it seems as though you are "judging" Judas; Yet, there is only One Judge, God. I think you fail to realize that Judas repented himself ! The prophecy needed to be fufilled that one of Christ's own would betray Him.
And God's Word SHALL come to pass just as it is written.
,

What you offer 'sounds' good. But the fact is that Jesus Himself called Judas, 'a devil'.

John 13:27
" And after the sop satan ENTERED INTO him [him being Judas]. Then said Jesus unto him, that thou doest, do quickly. "

Luke 22:3
" Then ENTERED satan INTO Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. "


Where did Jesus Christ ever call Judas " a devil " ? Show me ? Do you see the words "entered into" it needs no translation, means just that..." entered into". Judas was prophesied well before the fact, was he not the friend that would betrayed Christ ? The prophecy was fufilled.
Zechariah 11:10-17
Zecheriah 13:6
Psalm 41:9

not only will there be those that refuse to accept Christ as their Savior, but there will also be those that reject even the concept of His purpose.

Hmmmmm... It is written that it is Father's will that ALL should come to "REPENTANCE".

II Peter 3:9
" The lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering [ meaning patient ] to usward, NOT willing that any should perish, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE. "

Yet, you refuse to accept that Judas did that. And well, that's not good. And well if Father's will is that ALL should come to repentance and not perish in the lake of fire, then who is He gonna get to help Him accomplish this.... His servants of course, Christrians, those that follow Christ. Remember, Christ commanded Peter to feed His sheep, and to feed His lambs [ those babes in Christ], Christ said ye are the light of the world. And we are to share that light, we are to let that light to shine so that others will see, and glorify God. We have the truth, christianity is NOT a religion, it's a reality, we are here to HELP those which are lost in darkness, not just sit back and do NOTHING ! Let me ask you this.. what is the first commandment of God ? And if you were one that was lost in darkness, wouldn't you expect your neighbor to help you out of that darkness and into the light ? We are here for a purpose, and that is to help people to Christ, remember when Christ feed the thousands, yet he gave it to His diciples, and it was His diciples that feed the people, and the same still holds true today. Christ is that Bread of Life, He is that Manna that come down from Heaven. Question is, instead of sitting back and making a statement such as the one that I quoted, what are you doing to FEED those that are straving for truth, because the famine of the endtimes is NOT for bread or water, but rather it is for hearing The Word of God [ Amos 8:11]. God put us on this earth for a reason, His children are starving for Truth, they need help. No, it's true, not all will come to repentance, and not all love God, but that is not our focus or purpose, our purpose is to try and help those that might very well come to repentance, and Love their Father. What are you doing to try and help them ? There are alot of "WHOMSOEVER WILL" out there [John 3:16], it's getting late in the day and time is running ever so short, we are to help people find their way to Jesus Christ, The Beloved Son of God, in whom our Father was so well pleased with. It's about getting folks to Him.

Abiyah

 

[Imagican]

Ok Abiyah, I'll bite.

John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Again, it's like I am speaking to a 'clone' of Gendou. What are you people trying to do with the Word? You two keep offering that Christ died for EVERYONE as if EVERYONE were saved upon Christs' death. Boy, are you guys in for a major surprise. You choose to negate or deny ALL the scripture that specifically states things like: them that believe, those that follow, those that love, etc, etc, etc,...........................................

Do a favor to all that you offer such. Expose yourself and your belief so that all know where you come from. Tell us, what church do you follow? NO, don't answer this with some cryptic words of wit. Answer with the truth. What denomination does this teaching come from. What is the name of that which you practice?

Christ DID NOT say; "one of you is influenced by the devil". He plainly states; "And one of you IS A DEVIL". I guess you are going to try and contend that this isn't really the Word, but some misinterpretation of the Word. Boy, if what you offer is true, all those that have come to the Lord through the Bible have been completely misled through a lack of proper interpretation. Good luck with that one my friend. The only persons that you will lead astray with that theology are those that are already lost and just looking to be led in a different direction than the truth.

I will openly admit that there are most likely mistakes in the Bible. It was translated and written by man and man is certainly far far from perfect. But the Word itself states that it was 'inspired' by God. Either you accept and believe this or you don't.

And this in NO WAY negates the Bible in the least. What's contained in the Book are enough of what we need to understand the nature of God and Christ and their will for mankind. It is enough to bring us unto Christ.

I would suggest that you follow the path of Russell and just write your own Bible and start your own church. Since the Word as it is already written doesn't seem to appeal to you, change it as you see fit. But, beware of the consequences.

NO, you are right, you are not 'playing' with the Word, you are simply changing or utterly disregarding that part of it that you don't like. Shame shame my friend.

I am certainly judging the actions of Judas. I am warned that this is what I MUST do. I am to judge all things, including that which you offer and what I see as something contradictory to the Word.

I await your reply as to what denomination you follow.

Your friend

MEC

 

[Abiyah]

;-) Good Morning Imagican:

Well, you have said many things to me here in your post; as well as have made some false accusations towards me. And frankly by your tone, it sounds as though you are again sitting back in the seat of judgement, but instead of Judas, this time it's towards me, "awaiting my reply" ? Interseting, no doubt. Yet you did say you would "bite", in that you have spoken truthfully.

Christ DID NOT say; "one of you is influenced by the devil". He plainly states; "And one of you IS A DEVIL". I guess you are going to try and contend that this isn't really the Word, but some misinterpretation of the Word.

Indeed, Christ did NOT say that one of you in "influenced" by the devil, in that you are correct; And yea.. I do stand corrected. However, the Gospel does say, as I quoted to you BEFORE, yet you seem to have overlook that sir. See here, IT IS written....


John 13:27
" And after the sop SATAN ENTERED INTO HIM [him being Judas]. Then said Jesus unto him, that thou doest, do quickly. "

And again it is written

Luke 22:3
" Then ENTERED SATAN INTO JUDAS surnamed ISCARIOT, being of the number of the TWELVE. "


Now in reading those two account, from two complete different witnesses of the Gospel. it is written, that satan DID ENTER INTO JUDAS. Are you denying that sir ?

John 6:70-71
" Jesus answered them, have not I CHOSEN you TWELVE, and one of you is a devil ? He spake of JUDAS ISCARIOT the son of Simon; FOR HE IT WAS, THAT SHOULD BETRAY HIM, being one of the TWELVE."

And yea.. it does say here in the sixth chapter of John that "one of you is a devil", and in that I do stand corrected. But as we KNOW, Christ is ALL KNOWING, and of course He knew that satan would ENTER INTO Judas Iscariot before the fact. I mean look and read with understanding the accounts of both John & Luke, those that I have shown you. Now according to the accounts written in both The Gospel of John & Luke, we see that SATAN ENTERED INTO JUDAS, Therefore, did NOT Judas have a devil ? I mean it is written that SATAN ENTERED INTO HIM, you seem to NOT want to hear that. That same one that should betray Christ, as it was written of him to do so long before the actual event, that one Judas being that one of the twelve that has a devil. It was prophesied that he would betray Christ, is is written in Zechariah 11:10-17 for thirty pieces of silver, and again in Zechariah 13:6 a friend would betray him, and again in Psalm 41:9.

You two keep offering that Christ died for EVERYONE as if EVERYONE were saved upon Christs' death. Boy, are you guys in for a major surprise. You choose to negate or deny ALL the scripture that specifically states things like: them that believe, those that follow, those that love, etc, etc, etc,...........................................

Again, I am not really even sure if you read my post: However, if you did read my post maybe you forgot when I said and I quote from my prior post "God put us on this earth for a reason, His children are starving for Truth [ Amos 8:11], they need help. No, it's true, NOT ALL will come to repentance, and NOT ALL love God". I NEVER said there was NOT conditions to receiving the Salavation of God, yet you claim that I did. Our Father has many conditions to His promises, you know that word "IF", well, that is a pretty big word when it comes to receiving God's promises, one can not just be a hearer of the Word of God, but they must be a "doer" [James 1:22-23]. And all I asked you in your prior post was what were you "doing", as in "doer" to help God's children, those very souls in which He created to come to repentance, and to Love The Father. But you seem to have gotten quit offened, asking me to "expose" myself ? Again, I find that interesting as well. Do you understand The Parable of The Sower [ Matthew 13:3-23] ? Do you know who the soweres of this world are, who are they ? And do you know what the seed is symbolic of ? If so then you would know that it is our service to The Father that He is able to "reap" were He did not "sow" [ Luke 19:21-22], this is because those that serve God sow the seeds of truth, which is His Word. And it is God which maketh the seed to grow. God loves His children, He may not like what they are doing, but He loves them nonetheless; this is why it is His will that ALL should come to repentance, but again we KNOW that they will not ALL do that. God is not out to zap people, for He is The God of Love, for God IS Love [ I John 4:8]. Those [those being Christians] that sow the Truth of God's Word are those that are really, really trying to bring peolpe into that Light and Love, and THAT is what "we" as Chriatians are here for [Matthew 28:19-20].

Do a favor to all that you offer such. Expose yourself and your belief so that all know where you come from.

I "offer" The Word of God, which is true. Expose myself ? Wel, that is an interesting, yet blank statement coming from someone who claims to be a brother in Christ. Is that how God commanded you to treat a fellowlabourer in Christ Jesus ? No, it's not, question is have you read it ?

Tell us, what church do you follow? NO, don't answer this with some cryptic words of wit. Answer with the truth. What denomination does this teaching come from. What is the name of that which you practice?

Now, it is these type statements that could drive one that is NOT strong in The Word of God away from God. You should be careful saying such things sir. You are to set the example as a Christian ! My question to you is that with this type of tone and attitude what example are you setting for others ? Is this how a Christian brother acts ? Again, this is where I find you to be one that sits back in the seat of judgement. Yet, there is only One Judge, God. But let me answer your question that you seemingly are "eager" to await. I am a Christian . I find that denomination(s) tend to cause divisions within the multi-membered body of Christ. There are catholics, methodists, baptists, presbyterian, and so on and so forth, the list goes on, and on all day, and I think all must beleive as they are lead to believe, if these denomination(s) bring one closer to Christ by teaching His Word than they have served God well; However, for me, I listen and follow The Word of God, I tend to stray away from "the traditions of men" which make God's Word to none-effect [Matthew 7:13]. So to answer your denominational question that would be, non-denominational, as you may say; But in all actuality, it is called Christianity. And "practice" ? As you would call it, NO, I LIVE IT ! It is who I am, for as I stated before that Christianity is NOT a religion, but rather a REALITY. Although, not all KNOW that yet now do they ? Yet, God knows I am trying to help as many as I can see that God, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit are very, very REAL, and together they are One. Chriatianity is NOT a "practice" as other religions may do, But Christianity on the other hand just is, it's a fact, and it is not a way of life, it is life.

But the Word itself states that it was 'inspired' by God. Either you accept and believe this or you don't.

Indeed," ALL Scripture is GIVEN BY inspiration of God" [II Timothy 3:16]. And yea, I believe it, I do more than "just" believe, I KNOW IT as a fact ! And I try the very best that I can to be a "doer" of The Word, BECAUSE I love The Father, and His Beloved and Precious Son, Christ Jesus with all my heart and with my soul, yet, I need NOT tell you that, for God already knows this. And I find nothing wrong with taking many of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words back to their original meaning from which they came when "translated" into the English. And yea, I do study The Word of God daily, and taking many of the words FROM their original language does in fact help me to "rightly divide the Word of Truth" [ II Timothy 2:15]. It gives me a better understanding, as you already know this from your quote that "God is NOT The Author of confusion, but Peace. " And if a word can be better translated, then therefore, I am NOT confused by what the The king James tranlaters, as far as the way they may have translated certain words. Now considering the entire Word of God, the king James translaters did a fine job in their translations, yet, there are words that can be better understood when taken back to their original word, but more importantly taken back to there actual meanings. As I said in my first post, no man is perfect, only Christ is Perfect. By taking words back to their original meaning is by NO means "changing God's Word ", but rather it is reading God's Word as it was written and how it read BEFORE it's translation in the English, rather than just how some words were translated; Yet, you seem to have a real problem with that, this is why I thank God He is Judge, and NOT you. For His Judgement is Righteous.

Since the Word as it is already written doesn't seem to appeal to you, change it as you see fit. But, beware of the consequences.

AND

you are simply changing or utterly disregarding that part of it that you don't like. Shame shame my friend.

Again, these are blank statements, but even moreso than that, they are false statements, in other words, what you have written about me in these above stated quotes are OUTRIGHT LIES. And that's just not right, a righteous person does that which is" right ". You have clearly made false accusations against me, but yet you "warn" me ? I think you may be the one who might want to "beware of the consequences" of your own actions sir, and in this I mean no disrespect. Have you NOT read Proverbs 6:16-19, a "lying tongue" is one of the six things God HATES, yet the the seventh is an abomination to him, and in that you may want to take heed yourself sir.

I am certainly judging the actions of Judas. I am warned that this is what I MUST do. I am to judge all things, including that which you offer and what I see as something contradictory to the Word.

Matthew 7:1
"Judge NOT that ye be judged."

You choose the type of life that you will have by the way that you deal with others.

Matthew 7:2 "For with what judgment YE judge, YE SHALL be judged: and with what measure YE mete, it SHALL be measured to YOU again."

This word judge/judgement is translated from a Greek word meaning to "criticize"/ "criticized". And I lie NOT, that is just a fact, it's NOT changing Father's Word, it was translated into the English language as judge/judgement. And well, frankly, I feel this is what you have done, and NOT only to Judas Iscariot, but you have done this also to me. It was written of Judas long before the fact that he would be that one that would betray Christ, satan ENTERED INTO him, and he was told to go and do it QUICKLY. Christ KNEW that satan would ENTER INTO Judas [ John 6:7] for He IS ALL KNOWING. After, they crucified Christ, I believe, and I do think that Judas was beside himself, and this is why it is written that "he repented". I can only imagine the hurt and the pain he felt when all was said and done, I am sure his grief was overwhelming, I can not even begin to imagine just how bad he must have felt. But the fact is he did repent, it IS written. You have also critized Judas in his actions with the money bag. When you say such things as this, you make yourself sound as though you have not sinned yourself. But you know, when one sets themsleves up as "judge", I feel, and this is my opinion, that that particular one that does this is kind of stepping on Father's toes. He needs no, nor does He require any assistant in His Judgement, [ And Please don't say... well what about the Book of Judges... Becasue that word " judges" as it applies to the Book of Judges is the Hebrew word "Shophetim" : and it means rulers, to set right and THEN rule, however, that is a differnt subject for a different time] for any man, I mean those that act as though they are "holier than thou", God doesn't like it, there like a smoke in His nose [Isaiah 65:5 ], Let me ask you this... ever get smoke in your nose ? It's not good ! The word judge/judgement in many of the Sciptures means to discern/discernment, and yea, one MUST discern others, and whether they be good or evil, whether they be of God or whether they be of satan [John 8:44]. God sits in The Seat of Judgement, and He keeps great records, and He knows ALL things, He is the heart knower, this is why God's Judgement is Righteous and He is Perfectly Fair. He is The Judge of both Heaven and Earth.


Psalm 50:6
" And the Heavens SHALL declare His Righteousness, FOR GOD IS JUDGE HIMSELF. Selah." [ Did you know that "Selah", is a musical pause, and it means to meditate, or to think indepthly about that which was just said, you should try that, see... reason being maybe then you will see that Father does NOT need your help in "judging" His people, and behold, ALL souls do belong to Him (Ezekiel 18:4)].


I pray that The Father bless your studies in His Word, that He leads, guides, and directs you, so that you may be a blessing to others, as you remind them that we serve a God of Love, that we serve a God that is full of mercy, grace, and everloving kindness. He is very patient, in the hopes that as many that will should come to repentance and love Him, as He loves them, and reminding those that are lost that God DOES love them, let us not forget that " God loved us BEFORE we loved Him". That One that created our very being does love us, and wishes that those that will, will REPENT, and love him in return, and put their rest, their peace of mind in Him, and be a willingly & faithful servant of His.


Abiyah

Oh one last thing, QUESTION; Do you know what the name "Abiyah" means ? It is Hebrew and it is utilized a few times in the Bible, like for example " the course of Abia/Abiyah", that being of the 24 couses in which the Levitical Preists served in the Book of Kings ? remeber how Zacheriah was serving that course of abia while in the temple ? Maybe if you knew and understood the "meaning" of many of the words and names which are written and utilized in the Bible, you wouldn't critize me so, or as you would think JUDGE ! But maybe, just maybe if you took the time to even undertsand the meaning of Biblical names than you would have no need to question my denomination, as if you will be the one that will judge the churches.... NOPE that's Christ job, and remember He was only pleased with two of the seven churches of the entimes, Smyrna & Philadelphia [ Revelation 2:9 & 3:9], all the other churches and that which they taught within those churches where told to REPENT. Although, I was thinking that maybe when speaking directly with you I should change my user-name to "Daniel" meaning God is my Judge and/or Judgement of God; As a simple reminder to you.

 

[Imagican]

I apologize for any offense you may have taken from my post. I must admit that a part of the harshness was not due you but was brought about from another. I do sincerely apologize for not controlling myself in a more civil respect. I am sorry. Forgive me.

I do not judge individual denominations. If you are exposed to my posts a bit, you will quickly be able to surmise that I carry the 'same' disdain for ALL denominations. After much study and comparing the Word to the traditional teachings of churches, I find that they ALL suffer from pretty much the same pitfalls.

I asked your denomination so that I might have a better understanding of the teachings that you follow. i am not familiar with a denomination that offers that 'all are saved'. I am certainly aware that all have been offered the opportunity, but I myself do not believe that all will accept this precious gift.

Once again, please accept my apologies. They are offered in all sincerity.

 

[Lewis]

Wow I had forgot all about this subject.

 

[Abiyah]

:D Good Morning Imagican ( And Lewis & ALL) !

Beloved, I'd like to say that I am moved by your post. And please know that an apology was not needed; but I most certainly do accept your apology, and I send you sincere heartfelt thanks. And I feel as though I must apologize to you as well. I visit The 123 Christian Forum every now and then to simply fellowship and discuss The Word of God with my fellowlabourers in Christ. Just as you, I also LOVE God's Word, and I do enjoy sharing it and hopefully, God willing will be able to help others, for I seek out the Sciptures diligently and just really enjoy sharing and discussing The Word of God.

Matthew 18:20
" For where two or three are GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, THERE AM I IN THE MIDST OF THEM. "

Again, thank you Imagican, May our Father's peace be upon you, and may ALL those that sinerely love Him continue to be lead, guided, and direct of Him, growing daily in His grace, and everlasting love, in the name of our Lord, Christ Jesus. Amen

Abiyah

 

[Lewis]

Abiyah, much love back at ya.