Judgment Seat of Christ

[Veritas]

Alright, how does this sound?

We can work our way to heaven - No.
God's work is fully responsible for us finding our way to heaven - Yes.

We can attribute good actions to ourselves - No.
God gives us rewards for good actions here anyways- Yes.

Some will recieve more rewards than others - Yes.
Some of us are better than others in God's eyes because we are rewarded more - No.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

:smt023

 

[Veritas]

:smt038

 

[Bubba]

Some will recieve more rewards than others - Yes.

How will those rewards be manifested?
Bubba

 

[stranger]

Alright, how does this sound?

We can work our way to heaven - No.
God's work is fully responsible for us finding our way to heaven - Yes.

We can attribute good actions to ourselves - No.
God gives us rewards for good actions here anyways- Yes.

Some will recieve more rewards than others - Yes.
Some of us are better than others in God's eyes because we are rewarded more - No.

Hi Veritas,

concerning finding our way to heaven. . .

The prodigal son - returns when he comes to his senses,
The lost sheep - is retrieved by the Good Shepherd.

If the prodigal son waits beside the pig trough for the Father to come to rescue him - he has a long wait in store, it is the prodigals sons' 'work' to return to his Father.

In the other case the lost sheep may not know where he is and is not capable of finding his way back - so the Shepherd rescues it.

 

[jgredline]

Hi Folks
Ok, So i believe it is fair to say that we are in agreement that there will be rewards waiting for the saints...By the way the Greek word for reward is μισθός/ misthos...In the context of say Matt 5:12...12 χαιρετε και αγαλλιασθε οτι ο μισθος υμων πολυς εν τοις ουρανοις ουτως γαρ εδιωξαν τους προφητας τους προ υμων

The NKJV reads 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

The reason I bring this up is for two reasons....
1 the Greek word μισθός/ misthos means wages.. or payment..
The way the Greek is laid out it also has the definite article οprecedes reward..
Which changes the statement to be an emphatic statement....

So Jesus is saying (my paraphrase) Hey buddy..Here is your paycheck for a job well done....Now go and enjoy it...

Before you consider me a quack, do your own homework...

Ok, now to continue....I am sure that we will all pretty much feel the same way....Certainly I am speaking for myself...
I have ''NEVER'' set out to do anything for the Lord Jesus Christ with the expectation of receiving a reward...Never not once....I am sure if you were to ask brothers in Christ, you will not find many that set out to build the kingdom for a reward.....in heaven...

Now no dought there are some who who do things in the name of the the church or Jesus, but are only out for themselves...Those folks are easy to spot.....and have already received their reward.....

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

How will those rewards be manifested?
Bubba

Thoughts like that inspire songs like "I Can Only Imagine". :-D

 

[GMS]

[/qoute]

The reason I bring this up is for two reasons....
1 the Greek word μισθός/ misthos means wages.. or payment..
The way the Greek is laid out it also has the definite article οprecedes reward..
Which changes the statement to be an emphatic statement....

So Jesus is saying (my paraphrase) Hey buddy..Here is your paycheck for a job well done....Now go and enjoy it...

Before you consider me a quack, do your own homework...

[/quote]

jgredine,
I hope I am not addicted to this forum, but after reading what you wrote, I just couldn't resist:

1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius[a] a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4and to them he said, 'You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.' 5So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, 'Why do you stand here idle all day?' 7They said to him, 'Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard too.' 8And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.' 9And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. 11And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, 12saying, 'These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' 13But he replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?' 16So the last will be first, and the first last."


I think these verses negate what you just said, but I could be wrong.
GMS

 

[jgredline]

jgredine,
I hope I am not addicted to this forum, but after reading what you wrote, I just couldn't resist:

1"For the kingdom of heaven is like a master of a house who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2After agreeing with the laborers for a denarius[a] a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3And going out about the third hour he saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4and to them he said, 'You go into the vineyard too, and whatever is right I will give you.' 5So they went. Going out again about the sixth hour and the ninth hour, he did the same. 6And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing. And he said to them, 'Why do you stand here idle all day?' 7They said to him, 'Because no one has hired us.' He said to them, 'You go into the vineyard too.' 8And when evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last, up to the first.' 9And when those hired about the eleventh hour came, each of them received a denarius. 10Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. 11And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, 12saying, 'These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.' 13But he replied to one of them, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?' 16So the last will be first, and the first last."


I think these verses negate what you just said, but I could be wrong.
GMS[/quote]

GMS
What you just posted in noway contradicts what I wrote...In fact the context
of that parable is for earthy things, while the context of the rewards are heavenly things...Two different things, and yes, my guess is your getting addicted to forums like the rest of us :

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Mat 20?

Mat 20:13 "But he answered one of them and said, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
Mat 20:14 'Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
Mat 20:15 'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?'
Mat 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."[fn3]


You already know what I think it applies to. Salvation. Not rewards.

But since you brought it up, I am often amused with Christians who feel like they are the ones who have worked the hardest and won't get anything out of it.
I then point out that perhaps we are the last to be hired. Abraham, Moses, David, Peter, James and John, Martin Luther, Billy Graham....they all have more seniority in the Kingdom than I. Yet, I receive the same salvation that they receive.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Before you consider me a quack, do your own homework...

Too late for that, Daffy. :-D

... and yes, my guess is your getting addicted to forums like the rest of us :

I can quit..... any time I want to. :smt024

 

[golfjack]

reply

For one thing, we know at the judgment seat of Christ, sin is not the issue. All born again Christians have been forgiven by the sacrifice of the Most Holy Lamb. In Hebrews, we are called holy, priestly, kingly, sanctified, and the righteousness of God. The process of the new birth has made us this way. Our spirits have been recreated by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit. John 6:37 says and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Oh, what a basis for faith. There is no such thing as a person coming to Him and being cast out.

Now, let's see what scripture says about rewards? We have 2 Timothy 4:5-8, which talks about the crown of righteousness ( v 8) is a reward. It is not to be confused with the righteousness of God which the believer receives when he becomes a Christian; for at that time, the believer is to become the righteousness of God in Him ( 2 Cor. 5:21). The crown of righteousness is a reward to be earned by the saved. If the believer looks for, and loves, the second coming of Christ, it will affect his whole life.

The crown of Life ( James 1:12). This reward could be called the crown of those who love God. Upon examination of this verse, we discover that through his love for God the believer finds strength to overcome temptation and endure trials. Paul said, we also glory in tribulations. We can do so only if the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit ( Rom. 5:3-5). I believe we shoulld never get to the point in our lives where we are blaming God for things that happen. This reward will be given to those who live for Christ, and endure temptations, in the power of the love of God ( 1 Cor. 10:13).

The crown Imperishable ( 1 Cor. 9:24-27). Paul uses the Greek games to illustrate the spiritual race of the believer. The greek games had rigid rules for all participants. The New Terstament has rules for believers also to determine if we can receive this crown.
1. The believer must deny himself anything that would weigh him down and hold him back ( Heb. 12:1).
2. The believer must keep his eyes fixed on Christ, not looking to the right or left ( Heb. 12:2).
3. The believer must find his strength in the Lord ( Eph. 6:10-18).
4. The believer must place his all on the altar of the Lord ( Rom. 12:1, 2).
5. The believer must, by faith, refuse anything that wpould impede spiritual progress ( Heb. 11:24-29).

The crown of rejoicing ( 1 Thess 2:19, 20) the crown of rejoicing (v.19) is the soul winners crown. I will just give one verse that caught my eyes. Soul winners will shine as the stars forever ( Dan. 12:3). Need I say more?

The crown of Glory ( 1 Peter 5:2-4), The crown of glory is a special reward for faithful, obedient, God-called pastors. We should always be willing to share in the pastor's crown of glory. Help him, give your tithes, and pray for him.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[GMS]

jgredine,


1"For the kingdom of heaven is like ...
/quote]
GMS
What you just posted in noway contradicts what I wrote...In fact the context
of that parable is for earthy things, while the context of the rewards are heavenly things...Two different things, and yes, my guess is your getting addicted to forums like the rest of us :

You might want to read MT:20 again.
GMS

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

How will those rewards be manifested?
Bubba

Hey Bubba, maybe something like this?

Mat 25:23 His lord said to him, 'Well [done], good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Luk 19:17 And he said to him, 'Well [done], good servant; because you were faithful in a very little, have authority over ten cities.'
God knows your heart, and what is right for you. If ruling over 10 cities is not your thing, He must have something else that has been prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

What ever it is, enjoy!

 

[Bubba]

God knows your heart, and what is right for you. If ruling over 10 cities is not your thing, He must have something else that has been prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

What ever it is, enjoy!

Ephesians 1:3-6

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

How much is all? How are rewards differentiated or are they? Tough topic.
Bubba

 

[GMS]

Mat 20?

Mat 20:13 "But he answered one of them and said, 'Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
Mat 20:14 'Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
Mat 20:15 'Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?'
Mat 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen."[fn3]


You already know what I think it applies to. Salvation. Not rewards.

Gabbylittleangel,
Kids are in bed, and I am having withdrawals, my flesh is weak. Let us discuss Mt.20:1-16, one needs to work very hard to get a salvation only meaning out of these verses, though for me salvation encompasses sanctification and can’t be divided. The text is very clear that the workers were brought into the Vineyard at separate times yet they get the same pay. The story sounds a bit like the older brother in the parable of the prodigal, whining because he stay on the range while baby brother blew his inheritance on “wine, woman and songâ€Â, yet baby brother when he came to his senses nonetheless got the fatted calf. As jgredine correctly said the word for reward is “misthos†(payment) and we have Jesus Himself unambiguously telling the people who are His servants in this world (working the vineyard) that they are rewarded the same. The main idea of the whole parable is that none of the workers should complain about God giving us the same reward no matter how long or hard we worked. Stretch the text as you will, but the Lord is saying we all get the same ultimate reward in heaven. In respect to the 16 verse “For many are called, but few chosen†this is how each person became a worker in God’s field and the ultimate reality. As Jesus told, the 70 who came back joyful that even the demons were subject to them in Jesus’ name and Jesus reply was not to rejoice in this but “that their naes are written in heavenâ€Â.
In Christ, GMS

 

[jgredline]

Jack and Little Angel...Great post !!!!

GMS...If you wish to believe the scriptures say what it is you would want them to say, then thats on you.....

Now lets look at Matt 20
20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’
8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.â€Â

First Little Angel was completely right and I in my haste was wrong about Matt 20...It is talking about salvation and not rewards....Lets take a look..

Continuing this discussion that took place in Matt 19:16 about the rich young ruler, Jesus told a parable in which a landowner . . . went out early in the morning and hired men to work in his vineyard for the day....for an agreed price of say a buck...then he hired more folks hours later and paid them the same....and so on, like the thief on the cross for example...

By this parable, Jesus was teaching that the matter of salvation is under the sovereign control of God....God is the Land Owner in the parable....God is going to save whom he is going to save...This has nothing to do with rewards....Like little Angel said...There are folks like billy graham who will indeed have more rewards than I....and really so what? Its not like we will miss anything...no envy, strife, none of that....

I think I am done with this thread...The bible is pretty clear on this subject and don't want to beat a dead horse any longer....

 

[jgredline]

Too late for that, Daffy.

: ....Duh, I just saw this and Got it.... :-D
I guess I set myself up for that one.... :robot: it's looking at me again....

 

[GMS]

Jack and Little Angel...Great post !!!!


I think I am done with this thread...The bible is pretty clear on this subject and don't want to beat a dead horse any longer....

I am pretty much done myself, just having a "last fling". One last comment, salvation is "all the blessings" (brought up in another post). The "thief on the cross" gets "all the blessings", the Billy Grahamn types get "all the blessings". All those verses which speak of rewards, begin and end with salvation, "for apart from Christ we can do nothing", not a little something then get rewarded for it.
In Glory we will know for sure.
In Christ love, GMS

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

[/quote]

.... Let us discuss Mt.20:1-16, one needs to work very hard to get a salvation only meaning out of these verses, though for me salvation encompasses sanctification and can’t be divided.

Nah, not salvation only. There is much to be said in these passages. God's generocity. The hagling of the workers who went out first. Setting limits of what the boss will give you by insisting on a price first, and not trusting in Him to do what is right. The hope for those who are still waiting to be called.... So many lessons in this parable.

The text is very clear that the workers were brought into the Vineyard at separate times yet they get the same pay. The story sounds a bit like the older brother in the parable of the prodigal, whining because he stay on the range while baby brother blew his inheritance on “wine, woman and songâ€Â, yet baby brother when he came to his senses nonetheless got the fatted calf. As jgredine correctly said the word for reward is “misthos†(payment) and we have Jesus Himself unambiguously telling the people who are His servants in this world (working the vineyard) that they are rewarded the same. The main idea of the whole parable is that none of the workers should complain about God giving us the same reward no matter how long or hard we worked.

Good point. However, neither should we limit Him as to what we will accept.

Stretch the text as you will, but the Lord is saying we all get the same ultimate reward in heaven.

Did those who were hired late in the day receive a greater reward than those who were hired early in the day?

In respect to the 16 verse “For many are called, but few chosen†this is how each person became a worker in God’s field and the ultimate reality.
As Jesus told, the 70 who came back joyful that even the demons were subject to them in Jesus’ name and Jesus reply was not to rejoice in this but “that their names are written in heavenâ€Â.
In Christ, GMS

Do the many that are called receive the same thing as the few that are chosen?

As far as the 70 ~ I am not sure how you are applying this to the Judgment Seat of Christ, or rewards.

The neat thing about rewards in this lifetime, is that it always ends up being tools to use to continue the work for the Kingdom. Just as the purging and pruning process is taking away things that are not productive or hinder the Kingdom's work. Lessons learned in this life time have an eternal impact. God looks on the heart. To whom much is given, much is required.

I am sorry, But I just can not see how your op, things being tried by fire,(gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,) all come out of the fire exactly the same.


...each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. yet you say that this does not mean what it says. As jg says, believe what you want.