Judgment Seat of Christ

[GMS]

It is interesting how quickly we want to grab a hold of this notion that there are degrees of reward in heaven, using 1 Corinthians 3:8 as a bench mark verse. Now to understand this one verse we need to go back to the context of the letter and why Paul wrote as he did. I do not want to “reinvent the wheelâ€Â, so I will use Jim Minker’s thoughts on this topic that I gleamed from his works:
“• The believers in Corinth were splitting up into factions (groups in competition with one another) based upon their favorite teacher/leader. [1:12&13]
• Paul's referral to "baptism" was not accidental . it was obviously the source of the contention. The believers were finding their importance in claiming "I am of (my baptizer)" [1:13-17]
• Paul removed himself from the contention by stating "I thank God that I baptized none of you except ." and His indifference to the matter was obvious, as he couldn't remember if there were any others! It was not Paul's or Apollos' name they were dividing under, for Paul substituted their names in place of the real ones. Why? He didn't want them to misread his purpose in bringing the matter up and somehow use what he had written to validate their claims of importance over one another (You know, stupid stuff . like whose name was mentioned first, maybe). [1:14-16;4:6]
• Paul made a big distinction between HIS "ministry" and that of those who seemed to be such wise & powerful servants of God. Why else do you think he made the point that he was not sent to baptize? Don't you get it . they were competing with each other to gain more "converts" than the others! Paul's message popped their balloons and he was despised for it. [1:17-25]
• The message of "Christ crucified" is an offense to the religious mind. Why? Because crucifixion was the open rejection of a man . by men AND God. For God to do such a thing to His "chosen" was a detestable idea. It offended their concepts of God . and of themselves. To them, the gospel message was "the weakness of God". [1:23&25]
• The message of "Christ crucified" is absurd to the logical mind. Why? This wisdom ultimately holds that "knowledge" is God and that "salvation" is within its grasp. It believes that man is capable of delivering himself. To kill one's "SAVIOR" just doesn't make sense for it demands that man himself is ineffective. To them, the gospel was "the foolishness of God". [1:21-25]
• Paul distinguished "the Jews demand for signs" vs. "the Greeks demand for knowledge" calling them both "the wisdom of the world" . stating that God cannot be known through it. [1:21-22]
• Into this world God sends those who deliver a message that cannot be understood by its intended audience . but He finds pleasure in delivering those who believe. Who do you suppose will get the credit for such a thing? The recipient? Not hardly! The preacher? Not a chance! It is God's doing and no man can boast before God. [1:21-31]
• Paul told these Corinthian believers that they were in Christ Jesus by God's doing. Christ had BECOME something to them: wisdom from God; and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption. [1:30]
• The message of Christ is not contained in one's ability to word it or to speak it. It is not found in the ability to manipulate. Nor is its power found in one's ability to persuade. The power of the message of Christ is found in God. He does the work Himself through the power of His Spirit . in those who miraculously hear and believe. [2:1-5]
• What did a man preaching Christ look like? Not very impressive. Paul reminded them "And I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling"! The gospel declares the power of God and NOT the abilities of the man. [2:3] The "minister" of God is merely a servant. How did those who had confidence in their abilities view Paul? They said, "His letters are weighty and strong, but his personal presence is unimpressive, and his speech contemptible" [2 Cor 10:10]
• The miracle of God in the believer is found in the reality that God has put His Spirit in him. This is to know the things freely given by God. The one who has the Spirit is able to assess ALL THINGS. It is the mind of Christ in him that gives this ability. [2:10-16]
• The natural man (one without the Spirit) CANNOT understand nor has the ability to receive the things of the Spirit of God. He is unable to assess the spiritual man for the same reason he cannot assess the mind of God. [2:11,14-16]
• Paul rebuked the believers because they had been judging all things by the judgment of the natural man. These people, WHO HAD THE MIND OF CHRIST, had become as men without the Spirit unable to make a true assessment of themselves or each other in the matters of life. The deception that their identity was found in the man they claimed to "be of" was the root of their problems. [3:1-5]
• The reality of the matter is that God causes the growth and it makes no difference WHO did what. Paul likens the situation to workers in a field who plant and water. The workers are all the same regardless of their individual parts . for they are working the same field . and they will be paid according to their labors. Paul's point is that the workers are God's and the field is God's. [3:5-9]
• We get caught up in a misunderstanding of "rewards" because we have focused our attention on the very thing that Paul had described as being nothing, and have built a façade around the thing Paul was saying. We have forced the concept that "Paul taught" that EACH AND EVERY BELIEVER represents the "workers" who are building into their own lives. So, was Paul really saying that I am the worker who works the field, which is ME, and that I will be rewarded according to what I have built?â€Â

Before anyone quotes 1Corinthians3:8, consider the context of Paul’s letter first. Even if you do not go back to chapter one, 1 Corinthians 3:7 and 9 should halt us in our tracks, in regards to the believers works, would you agree? I hope you do.
GMS

 

[Solo]

Jim Minker’s doctrine of Jesus is that Jesus is not God, therefore, anything that he has to say is suspicious to me. Jim Minker also has a problem with "doctrines". The word "doctrines" is just a fancy way of saying teachings, and the thought that "teachings" are not important to believers is a devilish thought.

Most of the writings that I have read of Jim Minker is opinion and commentary of his thoughts concerning Scripture.

 

[GMS]

Jim Minker’s doctrine of Jesus is that Jesus is not God, therefore, anything that he has to say is suspicious to me. Jim Minker also has a problem with "doctrines". The word "doctrines" is just a fancy way of saying teachings, and the thought that "teachings" are not important to believers is a devilish thought.

Most of the writings that I have read of Jim Minker is opinion and commentary of his thoughts concerning Scripture.

Solo,
Actually I didn't know that he didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus. I ran upon is web site doing a word search. I'll will have to revisit is site and see if he says anything about the Godhead. Yet, "don't throw the baby out with the bath water", take what is true and get rid of the rest.
Thanks, GMS

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

.... "don't throw the baby out with the bath water", take what is true and get rid of the rest.
Thanks, GMS

Enlarge the type, bold it, perhaps highlight the color, and repeat it often :wink:

 

[GMS]

I have been reading through an article by Tony Warren and he states a controversial concept why some need a reward system in place for believers:

"With all of this evidence of reward in Christ, one may then ask, 'why is there this belief by some Christians in a multiple judgement?' The answer is twofold. One, man in his pride and vanity wants credit for what he thinks he has done of his own (alleged) free will. And two, premillennial (and particularly dispensational) theologians, of necessity must create more than one judgement because they have Christ returning more than once. If Christ returns only once (at the last day), their need for multiple judgments disappear. Their eschatology of a thousand year reign of Christ on earth necessitates a double judgement. For they have some judged for rewards before the thousand years, and some judged after the thousand years. This is problematic if there is a pretribulation rapture and no Bema seat judgement."

What think you?
GMS

 

[jgredline]

I have been reading through an article by Tony Warren and he states a controversial concept why some need a reward system in place for believers:

"With all of this evidence of reward in Christ, one may then ask, 'why is there this belief by some Christians in a multiple judgement?' The answer is twofold. One, man in his pride and vanity wants credit for what he thinks he has done of his own (alleged) free will. And two, premillennial (and particularly dispensational) theologians, of necessity must create more than one judgement because they have Christ returning more than once. If Christ returns only once (at the last day), their need for multiple judgments disappear. Their eschatology of a thousand year reign of Christ on earth necessitates a double judgement. For they have some judged for rewards before the thousand years, and some judged after the thousand years. This is problematic if there is a pretribulation rapture and no Bema seat judgement."

What think you?
GMS

Well, it is something that I really do not understand...The bible clearly teaches about different degrees of rewards....But the thing is this...Heaven will be perfect as all the saints will be perfected (fully sanctified) ..All the saints will be glorified...With this being the case, there will be no green monster....Nobody is going to care what one another has....it will be perfect agape love.......

 

[GMS]

The bible clearly teaches about different degrees of rewards....But the thing is this...Heaven will be perfect as all the saints will be perfected (fully sanctified) ..All the saints will be glorified...With this being the case, there will be no green monster....Nobody is going to care what one another has....it will be perfect agape love.......

Are you absolutely sure that the Bible teaches rewards? Or are we missing something here. I for one can not logically see how it applies to us if Jesus covers our sins through His blood (even the sins of apathy). Also, if our ability to do works deserving of rewards comes from God (James 1:17) how can we be put on a scale with our fellow believers? Iam with Veritas, if the 24 Elders represent the redeemed, and we are taking off our crowns to lay before the throne, is this not a symbol that our rewards goes back to the one who made us able to be His instrument?
Just thinking on paper. GMS

 

[jgredline]

Are you absolutely sure that the Bible teaches rewards?

While I am 99% certain that it does, I have never studied this in any sort of detail. Perhaps now is the time. When I get home, I will break out my old trusty first edition Thompson chain reference bible and concordance and see what we come up with....perhaps we can learn from each other..
Blessings, javier

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Are you absolutely sure that the Bible teaches rewards?

Yep. Perhaps if you thought of the term 'blessing'; rather than reward, it would make more sense.

I just did a word search, and this does not even begin to cover the topic. I just copied a small part of the list for you. The following verses not only speak of rewards, but also that rewards can be lost, or that in our desire to receive attention from man, we can gain that at the expense of the reward that God had for us.

Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Mat 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

Mat 6:2 Therefore when thou doest [thine] alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Mat 6:16 Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:18 That thou appear not unto men to fast, but unto thy Father which is in secret: and thy Father, which seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.

Mat 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

 

[GMS]

Hi Gabbylittleangel (you are the wrong species to be an angel),
All the verses you have listed I would say there are one of two possible rewards, life with Jesus or life without Jesus. I do not want "pass the buck", but revisit my posting on this thread by Tony Warren, and may be you will catch his "drift" about rewards. If not I will try a little harder myself. Also, remember the verses I posted like 1 Corinthians 4:7 and try to harmonize with the verses you have posted.
In Christ, GMS
PS I need to think a bit about the notion of blessing instead reward as we understand it.

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

He is preparing a place for me.

It is not a shelf, as one displays trophies. It is not as rooms in an orphanage or convent, that has a bed, a chair, a shelf, and a hook to hang a change of clothes. It is not a subdivision with rows of cookie cutter houses, that are built and furnished just like every other house that every other saint lives in.... or any other such thing.

It is a place that He is preparing with me in mind. If you can get your hands on a book called "Within Heaven's Gates"by Rebecca Spinger, read it, and believe it.

http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/ ... no=3681250


I once had someone tell me that he had read the book and it was facinating, but that the place that she described in her vision did not really appeal to him. The Lord gave me a word for him, that basicly said that the place that she described is the place that was prepared for her. It appealed to her. The furnishings, the decor, etc.

Because this man was a worship leader, I told him to imagine what a perfect place designed for him might be. Perhaps leading a choir, or a stage where he could lead worship.

 

[jgredline]

Ok, I almost forgot about this thread....Now GMS, I must say that I am in agreement with little Angel on this. Now admittingly I did not read the opinions of that writer your were referring to...Frankly I would rather read the scriptures and see what they say....

Math 5:12
12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Here Jesus is telling us that Great is our reward as opposed to small or none...


Matt 6:1 “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

Ok, so Here Jesus is telling us that for our charitable deeds we will get rewards for each of them, so long as we don not tell others of them....Verse 3 makes this clear....



Matt 10:40 “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41 He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.â€Â

Ok, so here Jesus is clearly speaking of 2 types of rewards......



Matt 16:27 27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.â€Â

So Here Jesus is telling us that he will reward each one according to his works.....


Matt 6:19 19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

So here again Jesus is plainly telling us to lay up treasures (plural) in heaven.....

So Like little Angel said....There are a ton of references and frankly I did not do a word search but skimmed through Matt....Now if you still don't believe that there are rewards and you will accept that mans writings over Jesus, then I have said all I can say...

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

GMS,
The passages that you quoted in the op are pretty clear about rewards. The passages from Mat. that I posted line up with them, as to the ones that jg posted.

I picked out a few more for you to ponder. I am a bit curious as to why you are not sure about this. From what the writer of Hebrews says, it does not please God if we do not believe that he rewards us. He is a generous God. He gives us abundance.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Luk 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Col 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward.

Hbr 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[jgredline]

By the way. In answer to your earlier question, I am now 100% sure the bible teaches rewards...

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

By the way. In answer to your earlier question, I am now 100% sure the bible teaches rewards...

 

[GMS]

The reason why I persevere on this topic is that in my mind this whole concept of being rewarded for what we do is foreign to the message of the finish work of the cross. Martin Luther once wrote that our very best deeds are sullied with sin. Our motivation for doing anything of a spiritual nature is always working through a veil of flesh that we must struggle with until glory. So what possibly could Paul be referring to in 1Corinthians 3:13f that our works will be judged. Remember Paul had been addressing an issue in this church, which was that individuals were elevating people instead of God and factions were occurring. “Who then is Paul and who is Apollos…â€Â?. Paul goes on to say that one watered, one planted but God caused the increase. The emphasis is on God not the individuals. Now once everything is burned away, “the false pretensesâ€Â, “wrong motivation†etc, what is left? That which is left is of God’s making not ours, so He will get the glory. When we are in heaven, those very crowns that are on our heads with all those diadems are now laid before the throne. Because we know that everything of a sinful nature is finally revealed for what it is, and we are left with the understanding that we are only the instrument of God’s works and righteousness..
Now in respect to all these verses that talk of rewards and mansions. First, the positive, we see Jesus face to face and there is NO CONDEMNATION, we get a place to dwell, perfect health, new wardrobe, crowns, new name, eternal life, know things as Jesus does, no more tears or sorrow etc. Yet, do not all the rewards encompass the person of Jesus, so to know Jesus is to receive everything. Now the negative, Matthew 6:5 :
"And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.â€Â
The unbelievers reward in the “here and now†is to be seen and appreciated by man. In the next life, their reward is eternal separation.
To me this is “the bottom lineâ€Â, when everything is stripped away or burned away our works will then be seen as what they are. The good news is, Jesus and His righteousness is what the Father sees in us.
In Christ, GMS

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

whatever.


You asked the question. You post verses that say that there are rewards. Other members of the forum post passages that say that there are rewards. A verse is posted that says that without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yet you chose to lean on your own understanding. I, for one, will keep that in mind.

 

[jgredline]

So GMS
What did Jesus mean in the verses I posted? Was he perhaps not being honest?...This seems to be what you are implying...But I am sure this is not the case, so if you could explain what he meant it will clear some things up. iT seems to me that the very verses you quote, affirm that we will receive rewards...
Thanks

 

[GMS]

whatever.


A verse is posted that says that without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yet you chose to lean on your own understanding. I, for one, will keep that in mind.

Gabbylittleangel,
If you are concerned with verses that talk of rewards, revisited Ephesians 2:8-9 and hopefully it will be apparent to you that our faith is also a gift from God, less we boast.
In all fairness, one should not argue a person's point, if they refuse to read the sources they use to support their side. Now the rewards is not the issue, we receive rewards, because of Jesus not because something we were able to do. I am sorry if I can not make my self clear on this, but I believe it is a paramount issue in the church today. Thankfully, grace will see it's day.
In Christ's love, GMS

 

[GMS]

So GMS
What did Jesus mean in the verses I posted? Was he perhaps not being honest?...This seems to be what you are implying...But I am sure this is not the case, so if you could explain what he meant it will clear some things up. iT seems to me that the very verses you quote, affirm that we will receive rewards...
Thanks

The reward in those verses and all that the word "reward" encompasses is Jesus, we receive the "whole tamale" not just part or segments.
GMS